Why Sony will fumble the ball, again… at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > And Now, For Something Completely Different... > The TOTEM Poll: Totally Off Topic, Everything Media

The TOTEM Poll: Totally Off Topic, Everything Media
Let's talk about anything media related.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old August 1st, 2004, 11:09 AM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Plainfield, New Jersey
Posts: 927
Why Sony will fumble the ball, again…

This is in regards to Sony's upcoming HDV Prosumer cam. There is no 24p in it, and this will lead Sony down the same path as their PD170. (I don't hear too many people talking about the PD170 anymore, it's either the DVX100A, or the XL2.) For whatever reason, Sony just REFUSES to put 24p into their sub 20k cameras.
Glenn Gipson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2004, 12:07 PM   #2
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: switzerland
Posts: 2,131
it is because sony has an image of consumer and prosumer that make video,not films and they target their product in this way.
This is good as they make good video product and the 24p hype will not spread for long (you got this impress because you are in a video forum and lots of techies guy are talking about that, but i doubt that even 1/100th of them really transfer their video on film, or they represent only a negligible part of the consumers).
This is less good as the "p" stuff is not only for good at 24 but at 30 and 60 too. And on that point, Sony is missing something.
I hope the HD (another Hype) with 720p will help to put all big brand back to the track, but for instance interlaced video is the standard, because it is the way that several hundred of milions of TV set are working.
Giroud Francois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2004, 12:15 PM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Plainfield, New Jersey
Posts: 927
<<<-- Originally posted by Giroud Francois : it is because sony has an image of consumer and prosumer that make video,not films and they target their product in this way.
This is good as they make good video product and the 24p hype will not spread for long (you got this impress because you are in a video forum and lots of techies guy are talking about that, but i doubt that even 1/100th of them really transfer their video on film, or they represent only a negligible part of the consumers).
This is less good as the "p" stuff is not only for good at 24 but at 30 and 60 too. And on that point, Sony is missing something.
I hope the HD (another Hype) with 720p will help to put all big brand back to the track. -->>>

If 24p is just "hype" then practically every movie made must be garbage then. 24p is not just for theatrical release, it's also for the small screen, that's why stations like HBO and Showtime often shoot their dramas in it. 24p is also the most universal of framerates, 30p isn't.
Glenn Gipson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2004, 12:20 PM   #4
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: switzerland
Posts: 2,131
you totally miss the point by recuperating the argument that all big movie are 24p , so it is the way things must be and things are good.
movies are in 24p because they use a technology that is unable to produce anything else, because they exist since a date where video was not even a word in the dictionary.
People have been on horse for century, but i doubt you will trade your car against one.
you can deny that since video exist, it is interlaced, the same as since film exist they are progressive.
This is two different worlds and it is the way Sony sees it.
They could be wrong , but it is their decision.
If you are not happy with that, you can still buy a XL2 or a DVX100.

Few years ago i read a funny stuff:
100 billions of moths can't be wrong ! eat shit !
Giroud Francois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2004, 04:52 AM   #5
Trustee
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,707
I'm always reading 24p this and that, but it is 100% true that you don't need 24p unless you will have the $$ for a film transfer. If you do then great...but, maybe you should take your film transfer money and shoot the darn thing on film like it probably should!

Bottom line - if you are trying to attract some type of professional investment - shoot film and stay in film until it's in front a viewing audience in a theater. Otherwise, if you shoot video....realize that for ever single "prosumer" camera bought (50-100,000 cameras a year?) - .00001 actually end up in the theater going at 24p!

24 Days, Pieces of April...a few I know of that went to film. But, man...seriously....a millon other "films" were shot on 24p video and ended up at 29.97 frames.

This is one issue that really seems stupid to me. But, it's always out there being debated. It's strange because it's a math game more than anything else...the art behind it "the film look" doesn't make sense. It's not film - it's video and will never ever be film...even after a "film transfer". You can't get blood from a stone. The only thing you can do is shoot with a better video camera (HD) and hope that IF it ever gets transfered you have high resolution to work with and a 16x9 aspect ratio. Who the heck wants to pay $9 to sit in a theater and watch NTSC footage blown up to a huge screen and pixelated beyond belief? It's rare...like 24 days was cool to me because it had an industrial look....video look! It was projected with film, but the resolution was video all the way. The content worked for it, but we're talking very specific content....a zombie movie set in modern times.

Murph
__________________
Christopher C. Murphy
Director, Producer, Writer
Christopher C. Murphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2004, 06:07 AM   #6
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Plainfield, New Jersey
Posts: 927
Well, I guess I'm going to have to disagree. Once again, 24p is easiest when going from NTSC to PAL. Try doing that with 30p. And 60i looks like video, so there is no argument there at all. Most of the world is in PAL, so why would I shoot in 30p and be limited to NTSC? I'm not even talking about theatrical releases here, I'm talking about the ease of going from TV market to TV market, and that is either done with shooting in PAL, or in 24p. 24p is also better for internet compression then 30p and most definately 60i. I don't even know why you guys are stuck on this theatrical argument.
Glenn Gipson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2004, 06:37 AM   #7
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: switzerland
Posts: 2,131

You are right, PAL is better than NTSC, but PAL is interlaced.
So if you need to be PAL compatible, shoot in PAL.
For internet transfer, for sure interlaced is a pain but most of time you are not sending full frame and taking only one field is not a problem (have you seen recently a compressed video bigger than 360x240 on the web ?)
I do not think we are stuck on any argument. In the contrary, we live in a real world were tools for video are made for interlaced and easy life is done when following the stream.
If you prefer to be in the league of people who shoot video NTSC on 24p or PAL in 50p and spend their life trying to convert format to other format it is your right.
We all dream of a world were video is 100p in HD format, but for instance is is not there yet (but i am trying really hard as i just bought a JVC HD cam + a D-VHS all in ATS format. Not bad for a guy living in europe ?)
Giroud Francois is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > And Now, For Something Completely Different... > The TOTEM Poll: Totally Off Topic, Everything Media

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:13 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network