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Old June 22nd, 2005, 10:46 PM   #1
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Do you think old film classics will be released on HiDef DVDs like they are on DVD?

for example, 99% of Charlie Chaplin's work is out on DVD right now. having seen all of it, i still want the higher resolution of The Kid for my big screen front projector @home. DVD is still blurry from the compression on big screen but i hope the HiDef DVDs will remedy that and we will finally have a master that is pretty damn close to the original film negatives (1k). i seriously doubt that a 2k or 4k Ultra Definition optical disc will be a viable market after HiDef DVDs. i mean 1k front projectors are already so expensive, i can't imagine 2k or 4k ones.

having that knowledge, i'd like to start my movie collection with HiDef DVDs. back in the early 90s i knew that HiDef was making its way to the consumer domain and never bought a ton of VHS or SD-DVDs cause i knew one day HiDef DVDs will arrive. now that it'll be out in droves next year or two years from now i can finally start my film collection i've always dreamed of... the problem is i wanna start collecting chronologically from 1900 onward =(.
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Old June 23rd, 2005, 05:23 AM   #2
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Hey fellow Boston'er Yi, how's it going?

I think they'll mine the gold until we're dead and gone just like Chaplin! After all, going to VHS was the first mining...then DVD's and next HD-DVD. They are making profits off something that's already been produced. The studios love that more than anything else they do.

I'd be willing to bet that the general cycle of 7-8 years will continue. They were blown away by VHS's popularity and then even more blown away by DVD. It's a given that HD-DVD will succeed based on the growth of HDTV sets and projectors. If the numbers do what they continue to do...the world will be HD from the media, to HD-DVD to HDTV's and your cell phone will be HD in about 2 years too. Imagine watching an HD movie on a train on the way to work on your cell phone? It's coming..

I can see it now..."Coming soon to HD-DVD, Charlie Chaplin's The Kid"!
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Old June 23rd, 2005, 07:21 AM   #3
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Not just yes, but heck yes. I know a guy who has a writing credit on one of the old blockbusters and when DVDs first came out he said "hurrah, a new format, I can send my kids to college!" He and many others are eagerly waiting for the next format to come out. (and the studios make a lot more than they do)

I've actually stopped buying DVDs until the HD ones roll out... It's just tough to justify as a lfietime investment when I know a few years from now I will be sorely dissapointed with the format. (and when I can Netflix anything i need until then).
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Old June 23rd, 2005, 07:49 AM   #4
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If they can find a way to get you to buy the same thing twice, or even better, three and four times, you know they will. Watch out for HD-DVDs that have just been uprezzed from regular NTSC resolutions. That's going to be rampant, I guarantee it. I wonder what happens to all those old television shows that were shot 4:3. I'll bet we get vertical pan and scan.
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Old June 23rd, 2005, 02:14 PM   #5
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i know you guys are skeptical but i honestly believe the HD-DVD/BluRay won't be as big a hit as DVDs. most consumers are stupid and they won't care about hi-def DVDs.

it might become like DVD-Audio MLP, SACD and LaserDisc. niche product.

even if 2k DVDs or 4k DVDs come out AFTER HD-DVD/BluRay comes out, i don't think it'll be as popular as SD DVDs. that's just my opinion.

in my mind, HD-DVD/BluRay is it.
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Old June 23rd, 2005, 03:45 PM   #6
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Hey Yi,

The success of the DVD player and DVD's is a phenomenon. It's unrivaled in consumer electronics (sold more than anything else in history!), entertainment (the studios are making LOADS of dough right now) and also producing (producers are loving DVD's because of the quality and interactive nature).

It looks to me that it's a sure thing. I'd be willing to bet it all on continued growth of DVD/HD-DVD/HD Games and anything else that comes along. You just can't go wrong with this stuff...people eat DVD's up like candy. HD-DVD's will sell huge...probably close to or the same as DVD's.
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Old June 23rd, 2005, 08:03 PM   #7
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people will buy the HiDef DVDs and try to play it on their SD DVD player. they will take those HiDef DVDs and return them saying, HEY MAN THIS DOESN'T WORK! then they'll proceed to exchange them for SD DVDs. that's what will happen.

they should have never brought DVDs online in the first place but HD-DVDs.
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Old June 23rd, 2005, 09:28 PM   #8
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Yes, people are stupid about a lot of things, but anyone using DVD's in the first place already lives in the "digital" DVD world. It takes no more effort to understand HD-DVD than DVD - it's a better picture and more space than SD DVD's. I'd say 90% of the people who are told what it is will get it. It's the computer age and people are tech savvy on the basics. People have already been through the "why does a gif image look like crap and a jpg looks better?" education online. Understanding HD-DVD isn't going to be a big deal. It's less of a stretch that it was from VHS to DVD - two completely different technologies. That took lots of time to educate people. But, DVD's are in 90% of the households in the US. That speaks volumes since DVD's didn't exist in the public mind until about 7 short years ago.

Yi, I don't think you realize that DVD's are the biggest thing in entertainment the past 25 years! People spend 60% more time watching DVD's than they did just 2 years ago.

Watch "Shootout" on AMC - that's where I'm getting my facts and figures.
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Old June 23rd, 2005, 09:28 PM   #9
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While I think HD-DVDs will be successful, I agree with Yi, I don't think HD-DVDs will be that big of a hit. I don't think the main public will see the same jump in performance & quality that they got going from VHS to DVD.

DVDs are more convenient than VHS and have a noticeably better image on current equipment.

HD-DVDs aren't anymore convenient than DVDs but do require an upgrade of current equipment to get a noticeably better image, and even then, many of the new HD TVs give you a worse SD image.

Plus the largest part of the population: baby boomers and the following generation are getting past that age where they care about acquiring such things.
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Old June 23rd, 2005, 10:44 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yi Fong Yu
most consumers are stupid and they won't care about hi-def DVDs.
I agree. Most are baffled by letterboxing...
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Old June 24th, 2005, 12:38 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yi Fong Yu
most consumers are stupid and they won't care about hi-def DVDs.
I am dumfounded that you rate the majority of the world as stupid becuase they value things differently than you do. The arrogance is blinding. They may not care, they may be fine with SD, that may even be smart, who knows.

I really don't hear a difference between 12-bit and 16-bt audio... does that make me stupid also?

Personally I think that the HD will come in with the pace of CD's, not of DVDs. The quality bump will eventually draw people in, but not until the prices come down.
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Old June 24th, 2005, 06:35 PM   #12
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Right at the peak of the VHS/Beta buy/rent movie craze, they introduced S-VHS. Most of you know how much better S-VHS looks onscreen. However, the few feeble attempts to put pre-recorded movies on S-VHS fizzled. There was one mailorder outfit in Frisco that had several dozen S-VHS titles available, but there wasn't much else. I never saw a rental S-VHS cassette in any local video store. One of the main reasons was because so few people ever bought S-VHS recorders. This is understandable, because until a few years ago, they were prohibitively expensive for most people. Unless players or recorders for HD-compatible DVDs are sold at prices that are feasible for large numbers of people, this format may languish in the same way as S-VHS.
Of course, the introduction of laserdisc players, that had 420 lines of res, digital audio and added feature segments, helped subdue the popularity of
S-VHS pre-recorded movies.

Right now, there's a very small number of people who own JVC D-VHS VCRs, that can play great-looking D-Theatre movies in HD. They give a 28mbps playback that excels even the best broadcast HD programming. But, at least as far as pre-recorded movies are concerned, D-VHS will likely end up just like S-VHS and for the same reasons.

It might be smart for the purveyors of pre-recorded HD movies to subsidize the production of affordable players. Another question is, might too many HD formats becoming available, spoil the chances for success of any one of them?

There seems to be a magical and often unpredictable combination of factors that make a format successful for commercially pre-recorded music or video.
Often, the main players involved are their own worst enemies. Remember how the movie studios fought against VHS/Beta home VCRs? They had to be dragged, kicking and screaming through the courts, to be forced into those dreaded circumstances, that eventually made billions of dollars for them (and saved some studios from extinction). The way things are looking, the introduction of newer movies on DVD-HD media may be delayed or even blocked by the major studios. The same blind greed of the past, may compromise our getting the HD movies we want and keep the studios from making untold profits.

Last edited by J. Stephen McDonald; June 24th, 2005 at 07:09 PM.
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Old June 24th, 2005, 09:55 PM   #13
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One thing that doesn't seem to get mentioned often enough, is that television looks so bad not because NTSC resolutions aren't high enough, but because regular 4:3 tube televisions suck. An HD TV showing full NTSC resolution looks pretty good. Most people, unless they looked close, wouldn't appreciate the difference between true 480i and HD. I can see that holding back the appeal of HD-DVDs. Still, I think that everyone who buys an HDTV is going to insist on a hi-rez medium, whether they can see the difference or not. I think the format is going to take off not because of performance, but because of hype. Odd as it is, that's better for everybody. HD-DVDs are going to be huge.
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Old June 24th, 2005, 10:46 PM   #14
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chris m.,

unfortunately, people still do not know what jpeg and gif is in the real world. all they want to know is, how can i email the pic and how can my friends/relatives see it. end of story. they DON'T WANT TO LEARN about the format! even if they have been taught, THEY ARE NOT GOING TO REMEMBER IT. and it's not the people that i deal with, it's empirical fact. boston globe, nytimes have statistics all the time on people who want something to work but they don't wanna know all the of tech stuff. the "tech saaviness" you are referring to is people using tech devices, but not necessarily knowing every little technical detail about it. using doesn't mean knowing. secretaries know how to type in word and print a page out, but they may not know how MS programmed word or how a laserjet burns text on page. from the evidence in newsmedia statistics and also teleological arguments, people just don't care about how a DVD works... only that it's convenient and it works. so the day taht HD/BluRay DVDs players cost $20 and anyone and everyone can pick it up at the local walmart is the day that HD wins. i seriously doubt taht will happen until a decade or two from now. plus less than a third of the US populus own HDTV that can take some advantage of the full res of HD media. plus, most of those HDTV can only display 1280x720 and NOT 1920x1080p. like i said, i'll give it a decade or two before HD takes on some sort of importance similar to DVD, but i don't think any mediums will EVER be as popular as that until we perfect online delivery of media content =).

barry, so michael and doug are ignorant, too? i'm dumfounded that you would dare to label me arrogant when you are not looking at empircal evidence as i've stated above nor provided any logical arguments (complete with a premise that leads to a conclusion). please do not resort to ad hominem attacks. i don't do that to other people and neither should you.

mcdonald, i agree. that was that killed SACD, DVD-Audio in the most recent memory.

marco, as i said, going from 480i to 480p or 720 isn't going to instantly convert people. the problem is that both HDTV displays itself and the medium from which to play HD content has missed the boat already. first, HDTVs don't have native 1920x1080p yet. second, HD-DVD/BluRay is already late. going from 480i to 1080p is a MAJOR DIFFERENCE and a MAJOR shock. plus, the politcal subterfuge that made HDTV more lenient toward less resolution but more channel created problems with intermediatery steps and different resolution both progressive and interlaced. why both with including 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i when you can UNIFY HDTV into ONE singular resolution: 1920x1080 progressive. keep HDTV cable/TV content as 1080p only, HDTVs taht come out will ONLY display 1080p (even if it comes out later than when it first appeared) and HD storage mediums to display the latest action hollywood movie in 1080p gloary. i think that creates a HUGE winner for everyone.
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Old June 25th, 2005, 01:26 AM   #15
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If Lucasfilms or any other re-mastering company could re-scan and re-master all the episodes of the original Star Trek, Star Trek TNG, and Star Trek Voyager into HD-DVD or Blu-ray, fans would go absolutly CRAZY!!! UHDV-Holographic discs with direct scans of all famous IMAX films or feature films made in UHDV would be the next step in giant screen home theatre (over 100" screen). I definitly agree with you, HD and UHDV is the future!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yi Fong Yu
people will buy the HiDef DVDs and try to play it on their SD DVD player. they will take those HiDef DVDs and return them saying, HEY MAN THIS DOESN'T WORK! then they'll proceed to exchange them for SD DVDs. that's what will happen.
What if studios decide to make hybrid SD and HD-DVDs, will they even exist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher C. Murphy
I can see it now..."Coming soon to HD-DVD, Charlie Chaplin's The Kid"!
How about: "Buy it now on HD-DVD! Star Trek Voyager, The Complete Series! Experience the Delta Quadrant in a new way, in High-Definition! ([Janeway]: FIRE!) Remastered digital effects, all supervised by THX! Commentary for every episode! It just doesn't get better than this!"

I just made up a whole commercial!
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