Which Vinten Vision and which legs for stability? at DVinfo.net

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Old August 23rd, 2007, 08:09 PM   #1
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Which Vinten Vision and which legs for stability?

Hi,

I would like your comments on helping me choose a head and legs for a Canon XH-A1.

So far I’ve decided to go with the Vinten Vision 3 head or preferably the Vision 6 if it’s compatible with the XH-A1 weight wise, I would like to have the continuous counterbalance setting.

As for the legs; for stability (least amount of flex/vibration), which would I be better off with: The Vinten 2 Stage Aluminum or 2 Stage Carbon Fiber. Or, the Miller 2 Stage Solo Aluminum or Carbon Fiber?

I'll also be using a 35mm adaptor and follow focus.

Thanks in advance,

Simon
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Old August 24th, 2007, 06:51 PM   #2
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Hi Simon...

The Vision 3 is the head you need. The Vision - 6 cannot be used properly with an A1 unless you've got it pimped to the nines (and I mean SERIOUSLY pimped).

When I say "properly", you cannot get the counterbalance system functioning correctly as there is not enough mass/ COG in the camera.

The V 3 with a #2 spring is even too powerfull for a bog standard A1 (the stuff that comes in the box) and will require a shed load of drag to hold past 30 odd percent tilt.

To get my A1 perfectly counterbalanced requires the big battery, a Senn EW100 G2 receiver in the hot shoe with cable to XLR I/P's and a Rycote CCA adapter in the mic mount.

"MY" (second) #2 spring holds nicely even with a ME67 shotgun and Rycote Softie mounted in the CCA adapter.

I say "my" (second) #2 spring as it would appear that all V - 3 springs are not equal, there "seems" to be enough variation to make selection a bit hit and miss. The one that came with the head is about 10 - 20% more powerful than the second that came from Vinten (tho' Vinten did call the first "a rogue").

Just in case you are not aware, "perfect counterbalance" is when the camera and head will go exacly where you want it and stay there for ever till you decide to move it - WITH NO DRAG APPLIED. If it is necessary to use drag to hold a tilt position it either isn't balanced correctly (centered on the head) or not correctly counterbalanced.

Should you find that you cannot get the A1 to function correctly with a #2 spring (even with the above accessories fitted - or something similar) then the very nice people at Vinten will possibly send you a couple of other springs to try out (don't quote me on that tho'!).

As a guide, the basic A1 "out of the box" in shooting config weighs in @ 5lbs 9.5 oz with a V 3 plate attached. Shed loads of drag required.

@ 6 lbs even it works fine with no drag
@ 6 lbs 6 oz ditto
@7 lbs 1.5 oz you're back to max drag to hold it.

Unfortunately, even these figure aren't a great deal of help as it depends just where, in relation to the head pivot point, the weight is (COG) and that varies from config to config. Even something like a ZR1000 on the pan bar can throw things way out.

Incidently, I've investigated all the other heads in the price/ weight range and they all share this problem with the lighter cameras, all except the Manfrotto 519 and even that requires 2 different springs.

Next problem: Assuming you get everything counterbalanced nicely, going for a non Vinten set of sticks could be a bit of a mistake. There are, as all the manufacturers will acknowledge, issues with "mix and match" components even tho' they are all nominally either 75 or 100 mm systems. The Vinten heads have a short chunky mounting bolt handle with a 60mm cup, that can be a serious issue with some makes of tripod designed for much thinner/ smaller cupped handles (Manfrotto sticks are definately a no - no with a Vinten head!) and there are, I believe, issues with Miller/ Vinten as well.

If you stick with Vinten, either of the two you mentioned should be OK, tho' if you want the ultimate system (and have infinately deep pockets) I would recommend the Fibretech's with a 100 mm to 75mm reducer.

The V 3 is a great head, a joy to use and I love it.


Hope this is of some use.


CS
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Old August 26th, 2007, 04:34 AM   #3
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First of all thank you very much for your detailed reply, most informative.

I played around yesterday with the Vision 3 and the #2 spring and you are right, for the bog standard A1 it is too powerful. Whether this is “allowed or not” I took out the spring, unscrewed the bronze screw which the spring sits over about two turns and thus, perfect balance.

I think I’ll be sticking to the Vinten legs, possibly the Carbon Fiber to cut down on weight. Although the Fibertech are very tempting, just a little too much right now :)

Thanks again for your advice.

Simon
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Old August 26th, 2007, 01:43 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Chris Soucy View Post

Next problem: Assuming you get everything counterbalanced nicely, going for a non Vinten set of sticks could be a bit of a mistake. There are, as all the manufacturers will acknowledge, issues with "mix and match" components even tho' they are all nominally either 75 or 100 mm systems. The Vinten heads have a short chunky mounting bolt handle with a 60mm cup, that can be a serious issue with some makes of tripod designed for much thinner/ smaller cupped handles (Manfrotto sticks are definately a no - no with a Vinten head!) and there are, I believe, issues with Miller/ Vinten as well.



CS
Hi Chris!

I just bought on ebay three days ago a Vinten Vision 5 Head w/ Bogen Manfrotto 3141 Tripod. ($728 with shipping)
The price was right, I'm very excited, but now you say it the Manfrotto legs are no good with a Vinten head, I'm little nervous. I didn't get a tripod yet, so I can't check it.

Laszlo
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Old August 26th, 2007, 01:51 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Simon Frances View Post
.........Whether this is “allowed or not” I took out the spring, unscrewed the bronze screw which the spring sits over about two turns........
I was told by Vinten UK directly this is OK to do, and is probably always necessary to get fine balance with the Vision 3 head and different cameras with different accessories attached.
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Old August 26th, 2007, 02:13 PM   #6
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Does anyone have any exsperience with the Vinten Vision 3 and the Gitzo GT3530LSV legs and the Gitzo 75mm adaptor.

Last edited by Michael Bartolo; August 26th, 2007 at 02:59 PM.
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Old August 26th, 2007, 03:41 PM   #7
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Hi guys..........

Simon,

Good system choice. Er, I wouldn't admit your little mod to Vinten if I was you. I have it in writing from them that "although it is possible, any modification to the V 3 head would result in loss of warranty in the event of a malfunction". Of course, Vinten being such nice people, are hardly likely to actually kick up a stink, but even so.

Martin,

See above. Think you may have been mis - informed.

However, that mod (there are others) does actually achieve the desired effect most efficiently (I didn't say that, incidently).

Laszlo,

Er, what's a Vision 5? The reason for the "Manfrotto sticks are a no no" remark is this, the short, chunky handle on the Vinten head has two things not in it's favour with Manfrotto design.


1. The grip cup is so large that it will impinge on something on the underside of the receiver long before a Manfrotto handle/ cup would. The result is a serious reduction in the level adjustment available. On my 100 mm 528XB's the available adjustment with the V 3 is only of the order of 2 degrees total (which ain't much). The Manfrotto 503 has almost 15 degrees on the same sticks.

2. The three lobed knob/ handle is so large (across) that on certain non Vinten sticks it will prevent the legs from fully closing. As on my 520's, the points of the handle are about half to three quarters of an inch below the leg hinges, making for a pretty serious issue. The possibilty of disaster is ever present if the two are used together (I seriously try not to).

The 3141 sticks you mentioned are Bogen (not Manfrotto - same company I know, but slightly different design) so MAY not have an issue, guess you'll just have to wait and see. Can't be more positive than that.

Michael,

'Fraid I can't help you, but I'm sure there is someone who can.


Glad I could be of some assitance.


CS

CS
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Old August 26th, 2007, 04:25 PM   #8
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Vinten

Vinten Vision 5 is a discontinued model, a predecessor to the newer Vision 6
If I'm right Bogen and Manfrotto are a same company, but some reason in the USA (and only in the USA) they called Bogen. Everywhere else in the word is Manfrotto. So I think the models are the same except few years ago they had a different model # under a different (Bogen or Manfrotto) name. Now I think they use the same model #

Laszlo
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