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Old December 22nd, 2008, 08:26 AM   #166
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piotr,

that's even more stuff.
you have a house on those legs, so you will have to get the spreaders and the 0860 then
be sure to lock the bottom or dollies if you so employs.

actually, the larger tubed carbons in both the gitzo and manfrotto are not easy to push around, unless you have wheels underneath. i would not be that concerned.

some may say that your support system is now more expensive than your camera, but don't forget that not long ago, something like the EX1 used to cost 20k+

paul


(ps. i know about that manfrotto apron you mentioned. it's great on my gitzo gt3530lv too, i put snacks and binoculars there outdoors.)




Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
Yes Paul, 100 mm it will be for sure...

Actually, my full setup is also even heavier than the one depicted above; the light in the cold shoe and a (shotgun plus radio receiver) on J-rod (front), plus the PAG 100 Wh battery at the very back end, on the free portion of rails sticking there :)

Today, I had a chance to put the camera alone on the Manfrotto 526; the head feels solid, but it was mounted on the lightweight 515 stick - even with the minimal drag applied, all panning and tilting move the whole tripod! So definitely, if I go for the 526, I need heavier stick (maybe even the heavy-duty 528, as Chris suggests).

But if I go with the Sachtler DV 8/100 on the CF legs, won't the same happen? I mean, with my full rig's over 10 kgs it should be loaded enough to not move the whole tripod when panning/tilting; but when I put the naked camera on it, won't the CF stick be too lightweight?

I AM using the very handy Manfrotto pouch, hanging in the middle of the legs, with some heavy stuff in it - it does stabilize the legs, but still... It looks like with heavy-duty system I need a heavy-duty head, which in turn requires a very heavy tripod...

PS. Incidentally, I'm also using the 561B monopod for those casual shots.
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Old December 22nd, 2008, 09:12 AM   #167
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Paul,

I must be very tired today, but I'm afraid I don't quite get you - are you saying that if I decide on the Sachtler DV 8/100, I should go with the alu (rather than CF) legs, and the bottom spreader (ie 0860 and NOT 0862)?
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Old December 22nd, 2008, 09:34 AM   #168
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yes, you're sober!

piotr,

yes, you did read that and i too only slept 2 hours overnight.

you mentioned concerns over accidentally pushing the carbon legs with all the gear up top as reason for a heavier aluminum legs. that could be a legit concern in conditions where your system weight is not that great and the carbon legs may be easier for someone to push it forward, but once you have enough, i do not see that being the case.

still, the 860 is really what you need and 862 does not seem to be adding that much to you in my analysis as you really have not concern over cargo weight. appears you have an entourage helping you there.

so, 0860 should be good for up to 75lbs, more than enough for what you have.

i went with carbon because i needed the portability..

paul






Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
Paul,

I must be very tired today, but I'm afraid I don't quite get you - are you saying that if I decide on the Sachtler DV 8/100, I should go with the alu (rather than CF) legs, and the bottom spreader (ie 0860 and NOT 0862)?
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Old December 22nd, 2008, 09:36 AM   #169
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in NYC, call me

by the way piotr,

if you make it here over the christmas break, i'll go with you to b&h where they have a fantastic showroom where you can try out all the sachtler, bogen, cartoni, and vinten gear wtith your camera and add ons.

paul
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Old December 22nd, 2008, 09:46 AM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Chiu View Post
by the way piotr,

if you make it here over the christmas break, i'll go with you to b&h where they have a fantastic showroom where you can try out all the sachtler, bogen, cartoni, and vinten gear wtith your camera and add ons.

paul
Thanks Paul for you kind invitation, but I'm in Poland and am afraid I won't make to NY any time soo soon :)
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Old December 22nd, 2008, 10:58 AM   #171
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Paul,

Living in Poland, where things like Sachtler are no very popular due to their price way above average Johnny's capabilities, I don't have anywhere to put my hands on them - I need to fully rely on the advice of good people like yourself...

One more question, if you don't mind: why do you favour floor-spreader over the mid-one?
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Old December 22nd, 2008, 04:42 PM   #172
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piotr,

regarding spreaders for large legs you are considering.

it depends on what type of work you'll be doing.
if it's stage work where you are following dancers around, thus lots of panning, you'll want a spreader to further provide rigidity and that perfect flow. with the spreaders, you'll feel that the legs are glued to the floor, especially when you are using those 0860 with the dv8/100 ball.
if you are not panning a whole lot, spreaders may not be necessary for you indoors.

concerning mid level over floor level.

i think floor level is really for indoors and mid level for outdoors as the mid level can help in locking that terrain unevenness, say some gravel, rocks, or steps. floor spreaders will not work here and no spreaders may not be wise. here, in a pinch, you could use the bogen apron!

others will have their own reasons for spreaders, but for I, it's the confidence of stability, indoor or out.

paul






Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
Paul,

Living in Poland, where things like Sachtler are no very popular due to their price way above average Johnny's capabilities, I don't have anywhere to put my hands on them - I need to fully rely on the advice of good people like yourself...

One more question, if you don't mind: why do you favour floor-spreader over the mid-one?
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Old December 24th, 2008, 04:03 PM   #173
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go to B&H

there are typos in Sachtler's page descriptions, hence the confusion.
the head and legs are the same in the 2 packages, only the spreader differs.

i have the same ex1 as you and the amount of gear.
i can say for your height, fsb6 may not work (well) as i am not 6' and did not like the 443 system.

if you are near the city, do go to b&h and try out the fsb6, dv6, and dv8 systems.

i believe they have a canon prosumer on the fsb6 at the moment as demo.
that cam is far smaller than our ex1.

that is simply the base cam, once you add lights, mikes, batteries, focusing switch, and monitors, the proper counterbalance requires a larger base and head.

paul






Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Kerner View Post
I don't want to hijack the other thread, and I don't have a rig as complicated as Piotr's so I started another thread.

Looking for sticks and head for EX-1. Basic set-up: camera with light, microphone. Someday may get 35mm adapter so it would be nice if tripod had a little latitude to add extra weight. I'm 6ft two. Would like to stay in the $1500 range.

I looked at the Sachtler packages and don't understand what differentiates one from another.

Look at this: sachtler: Stativsysteme

and then this:sachtler: Stativsysteme

Two different packages, same components (head, stix and spreader) yet the min and max heights are different. How can that be??

What makes an MD set of stix different from 2MD? Is is the number of sections? Website isn't at all clear about this?

Any known issues with these legs?

Any reason to go up to the DV6 head and legs, which would bring payload to 20lbs at a cost of another $300 for the basic camera (which I think is only 7 lbs)

Also, for EX-1 owners: Which is the preferred plate: Snap & Go or Touch & Go? I seem to recall reading somewhere that one of the plate systems didn't allow for proper positioning under the camera.

Thanks
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Old December 28th, 2008, 10:09 AM   #174
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still agonizing between Manfrotto 526 and Sachtler DV 8/100

One more inquiry, if you don't mind - looking at my full-blown rig here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/981668-post156.html

- how high would you estimate its C.o.G. to be?

It's important for me to estimate it (my guess is some 150 mm at the least), because - looking at the Sachtler DV 8/100 counterbalance graph: sachtler: Fluid heads - I'm a bit anxious the actual maximum weight capacity would be more like some 10 kg (rather than the 12 kg rated for 100 mm C.o.G.). And 10 kg is the exact rig's weight; if the C.o.G. happens to be any higher, the Manfrotto 526 (rated at 16 kg / 115 mm) would be more appropriate, after all.

One disadvantage with the 526 is that with a naked EX1 camera, even the minimum counterbalance seems to be a tad too much (only springing back at zero drag) - but I guess this is less of a problem than not enough payload capacity for the full rig...

What do you think?
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Old December 28th, 2008, 12:52 PM   #175
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Hi once again.............

Wow, that's a tough one, and no mistake.

OK, I'm going to assume that the rig in the photo is perfectly balanced on the head, which puts it's vertical COG about where the camera lens finishes and the whatchamacallit begins.

So, the stuff at the back including that high mount monitor is balanced by all that low(er) stuff out front.

Normally on a modern high end camcorder, I'd take a (very) rough stab and say the COG would run straight through the centre of the lens plane, the lens being just about the heaviest bit on the camera (along with the battery).

However, taking into account those rails, and the relatively low COG of that gubbins out the front, I'd say the COG was about 1/3 rd up from the bottom of the lens barrel and possibly as little as 1/4 the way up, heck, it could even be level with the bottom of the lens barrel (just looked again, don't think that last guess was realistic).

The main reason I believe it's that low is the sheer length of the front and rear sections. I cannot see how much of it could be tilted so as to move it's COG over the head pivot point, at least not in a real world setting.

[In case anyone's finding that a bit difficult to visualize, imagine a vertical line running straight through the head pivot point towards the ceiling. Now imagine tipping the camera, first forward 30 degrees, then backwards. How much of the rig actually "crosses the line" in each case? From where I'm sitting, the answer is "Not much"]

So, my guess is, 1/3rd up from the bottom of the lens barrel max, 1/4 min.

Where do those two measure in relation to the head plate?

Very hard to estimate from the photo but 125mm? Maybe not even that.

If true, you're still on the side of the angels with the Sachtler.

One way to lower the COG even more would be to move that monitor backwards towards the operator a tad, every little bit helps.

I'll be interested to see what the concensus is - any advance on 150+ or 125-?


CS
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Old December 28th, 2008, 01:29 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Soucy View Post

I'll be interested to see what the concensus is - any advance on 150+ or 125-?


CS
Thanks Chris - you're right that with the rig's "length" dominating other dimensions, its C.o.G. is not as high as I thought (i.e. probably less than 150 mm), which is good.

One thing I must take into consideration is that I'm going to replace the Letus riser with the RedRock microSupport high riser (microSupport baseplate, 15mm high riser), which - even though itself quite heavy perhaps - will move the C.o.G. even lower.

I'm interested in others' opinions even more than you are :)
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Old December 28th, 2008, 02:34 PM   #177
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This could get addictive..................

DVinfo's very own "Spot The Ball" competition!

Remember those?

Used to be incredibly popular (and addictive).

Many years ago when newspapers were about it for news, the late Saturday edition would print a photo of Saturdays "Big Match" action, but with the ball air brushed out.

If your "X marks the spot" was it, you won tickets to the next "Big Match" or somesuch.

Any ideas for a prize for this "Spot the COG" game?


CS
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Old April 2nd, 2009, 01:35 AM   #178
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Manfrotto 503HDV Tripod with EX1

I just bought a Manfrotto 503HDV tripod from B&H and found that my (tilt) fluid drag when all the way tightened isn't enough. With my EX1 mounted and if all tilted forward, it will slowly fall forward or backward. The only way I can get this to stop is using the locking lever which you shouldn't have to use. I called Bogen and they said that it should support my cameras weight and not do this, but to even further the confusion, my friend bought the 503 about 2 years ago and it had the same problem... I thought that it was just a defective one for him and have heard nothing but good comments about this model so I bought it. Does anyone have one and notice this? I'm sending mine back in and having another sent to my place but expect the same results. If so, then I'm going to spend more money on a better tripod.
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Old April 2nd, 2009, 02:47 AM   #179
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I have a 503HDV head. With a bare EX1 (with U60 battery) the ideal balance would be somewhere between 2 and 3 though I normally use 2. 3 and low drag results in the camera tilting up to the centre position. Add a Sennheiser G2 receiver or two, and the 3 setting works just fine.

Maybe there is a fault with the counterbalance selector. With the camera off the head, set it to 0, tilt the head forward or back then select 1. As you tilt the head through the mid position, you should feel a clunk as the springs engage. Then do the same, changing to 2 then 3 and you should get a clunk each time as well as feeling increasing bias towards the mid position.

N
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Old April 2nd, 2009, 03:05 AM   #180
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Hey Dylan

having worked with the 503 on a number of occasions and having on most of those occasions having experienced the same problem as you describe, I decided to go a number bigger and get the 519, mounted on 351MVCF legs for my EX3, now while Iīm not all that impressed with the fluid drag (I always have it on highest setting), there is a counterbalance function with interchangeable springs to adapt to the weight of your camera, which makes life a bit easier and saves you from having to catch the camera from tilting down or up all the time,

if you arenīt looking to save on as much weight (and cash) as you can, look into getting a set of legs with a 100mm bowl and a larger head.
Tripod is not the right place to save...

good luck
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