Tripod for the XL1 / XL1S

Ken Tanaka · February 2nd, 2004, 12:05 AM

John,
I use the Vinten single-stage carbon fiber legs. It really has some exellent design details I've not found on other brands of legs. For example, the ground spreader features calibrated markings to enable you to quickly set the spreader accurately. Its locks are also better designed than those from Sachtler. The leg locks are also very well designed and snap into locking position with tactile feedback. The legs also fit perfectly into a Bogen portable folding dolly I already had (sometimes handy for indoor work), far less expensive than a Vinten dolly. Yes, these are little details but they really add up to big details in practical use.

I chose to get the Vinten bag for the rig. It's really excellently constructed, with a good carrying handle, large dividable interior pocket, well-padded exterior, a well-padded shoulder strap and a grab handle at the end. I believe that it was a bit more than a comparable Porta Brace case (I'm a big Porta Brace fan/customer) but I was not disappointed at all with it.

[EDIT]
I believe that the Vinten 2-stage cf legs share the same design details I described above.

John C Heid · February 2nd, 2004, 12:18 AM

You use the ground spreader, I see. I meant to ask if you preferred the ground spreader to the mid level?

The difference between single and 2 stage appears to be only several inches in maximum height. Either would work for me.

Did you use spring # 3? I have seen 3 recommended for the XL-1S; however, I wonder if #4 is better if you add MA-200, dual batteries, 5" or 7" monitor, a different shotgun XLR mic, etc?

I won't be able to respond to you until tomorrow. It's pretty late!

Thanks!

Ken Tanaka · February 2nd, 2004, 12:48 AM

I use the #3 spring with my XL1s. Even fully-loaded (FU-1000 b&w evf, 16x manual lens, matte box, MA-200, CH-910 w/dual BP-945 batteries) it balances nicely. Of course you will have to adjust the plate's position on the head a bit.

I use the #2 spring with my GL2 and DVX100A. Again, no real counter-force trouble here either. Very smooth.

Yes, I use the ground spreader. Nearly all of my shooting tends to be on reasonably level surfaces so it's not a big issue to me. I had a longstanding affinity for mid-level spreaders. But I have found that the adjustability of leg stance provided by a ground spreader can be of great benefit in terms of height as well as overall rigidity of the leg support. I really like having those legs splayed when shooting low. The whole assembly feels rock-solid.

I also prefer the single-stage leg configuration, basically because I prefer to only futz with one adjustment per leg.

One recommendation: buy an extra plate. The Vinten plates are absurdly expensive (something like $150, if I recall correctly). But it's a good idea to have an extra in case one is lost or you lose a screw. Goofy stuff happens, and without that plate you're out of business.

I think you're in for a real treat if you get a Vinten. Have fun!

Gareth Trezise · February 2nd, 2004, 05:23 PM

That's a great approx price Ken. The best price I have been quoted over here in the UK for a Vinten Vision 3 head with 2 stage cf legs, mid level spreader and soft case is £1563 which is approx $2848

Anybody from UK know where I could get it cheaper. Would have to be around £1208 to compare to $2200

My local supplier should have it on SOR sometime this week for me to have a look at. Apart from price can't wait!

Likewise, will be using it with my XL1. Vinten recommended to me for standard XL1 setup use number 2 spring and if using a heavy EF lens like the Canon 100-400 a number 4 spring!

Mike Doyle · February 2nd, 2004, 05:40 PM

I was glad to hear good things about the Vision 3 head as I can simply place it on the Vinten carbon sticks I already have and save some $$$s. This discussion of SPRING #s is new to me though. If the spring is simple to switch out, maybe I'll get the 2, 3, and 4 so I'm covered.

It's been a while since I last visited here and I'm glad to see so may folks willing to share info.

Remember, if you aren't having fun doing what you are doing, you are doing the wrong thing.

Ken Tanaka · February 2nd, 2004, 06:02 PM

The Vision 3's springs are very easy to swap. It requires just a minute or two and a coin (to unscrew the spring's securing bolt).

B&H has an online chart guide you in spring selection. Go to one of the springs and look for the "Click Here for a complete listing" link on each spring's page. (Not directly linkable from here, sorry.)

John C Heid · February 2nd, 2004, 06:17 PM

If you were buying a new tripod, as I am, and have no existing parts to use, would you buy the 1 stage or 2 stage carbon sticks? I see 3 factors to consider: slight maximum height difference, a weight difference, and a setup leg adjustment (more to fiddle with) difference. I have heard a voice for simplicity, and that makes good sense, combined with lesser weight. Would anyone like to defend their reason for using 2 stage legs? I would appreciate your ideas!

Mike Doyle · February 3rd, 2004, 09:27 AM

John, I'd definitely buy 2-stage legs. I can't remember the last time I used a single stage set of legs. In the 70s and 80s it was almost exclusively wooden Miller legs with Mitchell heads. When carbon fiber legs came out in the 90s they were much lighter but still had the stiffness to resist torquing. I'm so accustomed to the range of heights afforded by two stage legs that I can't give them up (yes, size does matter). And, especially with the much lighter XL1s camera, the heavier weight of the legs is a real advantage when you are doing lots of panning and tilting.

The old Vinten legs with new Vision 3 heads will continue to travel in the Portabrace Tripod Shellpack we've had for years. It's well padded, holds LOTS of other stuff as well as the tripod and has lots of carrying options.

The first tripods I purchased for our Canon cameras are Bogen/Manfrotto 503 heads on 442 legs. The only positive things I can say about them is that they are lightweight, pack easily, and work sufficiently well for low-angle shots. They seem well made and the head pans & tilts relatively smoothly but it's just too big a step down from the Vinten system.

Andrew Petrie · February 10th, 2004, 10:54 AM

I have a 2-stage aluminum Vinten Vision 3 rig, I use Spring #4 for the XL1S, stock lenses, ME66 and a PreAmp on a home-made camera mount. The spring is more than is needed, I think most people can get away with Spring #3

I don't know if current shipments include the VHS-sized screw to mount the camera to the plate. Mine did not, I had to buy one from B&H.

I do want to invest in a mid spreader, but at $700 USD it's a bit of a stretch. I wonder if there's a Bogen model that fits....

David Stone · February 18th, 2004, 10:43 AM

Hi, I live in Burnaby and recently purchased an XL1s. I'm looking for a decent tripod and head (used if the price is right). Any suggestions or is someone looking to sell?

Keith Loh · February 18th, 2004, 10:50 AM

Hey David, last night I walked past a pawn shop that had a Bogen 501 head sitting on some Manfrotto sticks in the front window. It's one of the pawn shops on Granville St. If they're in good condition you might want to check it out. It's one of the pawn shops on the E. side of the street downtown close to the backpackers and Indian crafts store.

Patrick Catanach · February 18th, 2004, 04:38 PM

I too have an XL1 and a Bogen Tripod (3021), and I have found that the "tubing" of the Bogen legs seems to be thick enough, that the weight of the XL1 stands firm, and the Tripod Head (3063) is strong enough, that the camera doesn't budge. Either way, just try and make sure the tripod you buy is thick enough to stand the weight. I have a "cheapy" that I purchased around $45, and the weight of the XL1 moved the head somewhat.

Hope that helps and good luck shopping...

David Stone · February 18th, 2004, 09:21 PM

Thank you both for the information. I will try the pawn shop. Is it by Leo's camera or on the other end of Granville?

Keith Loh · February 19th, 2004, 11:28 AM

It's in that area of Granville, yes, but opposite side of the street.

Yi Fong Yu · May 16th, 2004, 10:34 PM

i need one before 6/12. i'm shooting my friend's wedding. any suggestions? i need one that is not only good for this shoot but any shoot.

i've heard from a friend of mine that said that bogen tripods such as the 3021n or 3021 pro are pretty GOOD if you also add the micro fluid heads. what do you guys think? cheaper alternatives? go with bogen? if so where do i buy it for a good price? i need this to arrive @me house BEFORE 6/12. thanks =).

PS what about promaster tripods?

February 2nd, 2004, 12:05 AM	#151
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	John, I use the Vinten single-stage carbon fiber legs. It really has some exellent design details I've not found on other brands of legs. For example, the ground spreader features calibrated markings to enable you to quickly set the spreader accurately. Its locks are also better designed than those from Sachtler. The leg locks are also very well designed and snap into locking position with tactile feedback. The legs also fit perfectly into a Bogen portable folding dolly I already had (sometimes handy for indoor work), far less expensive than a Vinten dolly. Yes, these are little details but they really add up to big details in practical use. I chose to get the Vinten bag for the rig. It's really excellently constructed, with a good carrying handle, large dividable interior pocket, well-padded exterior, a well-padded shoulder strap and a grab handle at the end. I believe that it was a bit more than a comparable Porta Brace case (I'm a big Porta Brace fan/customer) but I was not disappointed at all with it. [EDIT] I believe that the Vinten 2-stage cf legs share the same design details I described above. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

February 2nd, 2004, 12:48 AM	#153
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	I use the #3 spring with my XL1s. Even fully-loaded (FU-1000 b&w evf, 16x manual lens, matte box, MA-200, CH-910 w/dual BP-945 batteries) it balances nicely. Of course you will have to adjust the plate's position on the head a bit. I use the #2 spring with my GL2 and DVX100A. Again, no real counter-force trouble here either. Very smooth. Yes, I use the ground spreader. Nearly all of my shooting tends to be on reasonably level surfaces so it's not a big issue to me. I had a longstanding affinity for mid-level spreaders. But I have found that the adjustability of leg stance provided by a ground spreader can be of great benefit in terms of height as well as overall rigidity of the leg support. I really like having those legs splayed when shooting low. The whole assembly feels rock-solid. I also prefer the single-stage leg configuration, basically because I prefer to only futz with one adjustment per leg. One recommendation: buy an extra plate. The Vinten plates are absurdly expensive (something like $150, if I recall correctly). But it's a good idea to have an extra in case one is lost or you lose a screw. Goofy stuff happens, and without that plate you're out of business. I think you're in for a real treat if you get a Vinten. Have fun! __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

February 2nd, 2004, 05:40 PM	#155
Mike Doyle Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 32	Thanks I was glad to hear good things about the Vision 3 head as I can simply place it on the Vinten carbon sticks I already have and save some $$$s. This discussion of SPRING #s is new to me though. If the spring is simple to switch out, maybe I'll get the 2, 3, and 4 so I'm covered. It's been a while since I last visited here and I'm glad to see so may folks willing to share info. Remember, if you aren't having fun doing what you are doing, you are doing the wrong thing.

February 2nd, 2004, 06:02 PM	#156
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	The Vision 3's springs are very easy to swap. It requires just a minute or two and a coin (to unscrew the spring's securing bolt). B&H has an online chart guide you in spring selection. Go to one of the springs and look for the "Click Here for a complete listing" link on each spring's page. (Not directly linkable from here, sorry.) __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

February 10th, 2004, 10:54 AM	#159
Andrew Petrie Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 484	I have a 2-stage aluminum Vinten Vision 3 rig, I use Spring #4 for the XL1S, stock lenses, ME66 and a PreAmp on a home-made camera mount. The spring is more than is needed, I think most people can get away with Spring #3 I don't know if current shipments include the VHS-sized screw to mount the camera to the plate. Mine did not, I had to buy one from B&H. I do want to invest in a mid spreader, but at $700 USD it's a bit of a stretch. I wonder if there's a Bogen model that fits.... __________________ Andrew \| Canon XL1s, ME66, Vinten Vision 3, GlideCam V16 (for sale!)

February 2nd, 2004, 12:18 AM	#152
John C Heid Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 54	You use the ground spreader, I see. I meant to ask if you preferred the ground spreader to the mid level? The difference between single and 2 stage appears to be only several inches in maximum height. Either would work for me. Did you use spring # 3? I have seen 3 recommended for the XL-1S; however, I wonder if #4 is better if you add MA-200, dual batteries, 5" or 7" monitor, a different shotgun XLR mic, etc? I won't be able to respond to you until tomorrow. It's pretty late! Thanks!

February 2nd, 2004, 05:23 PM	#154
Gareth Trezise Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: UK Posts: 83	That's a great approx price Ken. The best price I have been quoted over here in the UK for a Vinten Vision 3 head with 2 stage cf legs, mid level spreader and soft case is £1563 which is approx $2848 Anybody from UK know where I could get it cheaper. Would have to be around £1208 to compare to $2200 My local supplier should have it on SOR sometime this week for me to have a look at. Apart from price can't wait! Likewise, will be using it with my XL1. Vinten recommended to me for standard XL1 setup use number 2 spring and if using a heavy EF lens like the Canon 100-400 a number 4 spring!

February 2nd, 2004, 06:17 PM	#157
John C Heid Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 54	If you were buying a new tripod, as I am, and have no existing parts to use, would you buy the 1 stage or 2 stage carbon sticks? I see 3 factors to consider: slight maximum height difference, a weight difference, and a setup leg adjustment (more to fiddle with) difference. I have heard a voice for simplicity, and that makes good sense, combined with lesser weight. Would anyone like to defend their reason for using 2 stage legs? I would appreciate your ideas!

February 3rd, 2004, 09:27 AM	#158
Mike Doyle Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 32	John, I'd definitely buy 2-stage legs. I can't remember the last time I used a single stage set of legs. In the 70s and 80s it was almost exclusively wooden Miller legs with Mitchell heads. When carbon fiber legs came out in the 90s they were much lighter but still had the stiffness to resist torquing. I'm so accustomed to the range of heights afforded by two stage legs that I can't give them up (yes, size does matter). And, especially with the much lighter XL1s camera, the heavier weight of the legs is a real advantage when you are doing lots of panning and tilting. The old Vinten legs with new Vision 3 heads will continue to travel in the Portabrace Tripod Shellpack we've had for years. It's well padded, holds LOTS of other stuff as well as the tripod and has lots of carrying options. The first tripods I purchased for our Canon cameras are Bogen/Manfrotto 503 heads on 442 legs. The only positive things I can say about them is that they are lightweight, pack easily, and work sufficiently well for low-angle shots. They seem well made and the head pans & tilts relatively smoothly but it's just too big a step down from the Vinten system.

February 18th, 2004, 10:43 AM	#160
David Stone Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 40	tripod for XL1s Hi, I live in Burnaby and recently purchased an XL1s. I'm looking for a decent tripod and head (used if the price is right). Any suggestions or is someone looking to sell?

February 18th, 2004, 10:50 AM	#161
Keith Loh Air China Pilot Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Posts: 2,389	Hey David, last night I walked past a pawn shop that had a Bogen 501 head sitting on some Manfrotto sticks in the front window. It's one of the pawn shops on Granville St. If they're in good condition you might want to check it out. It's one of the pawn shops on the E. side of the street downtown close to the backpackers and Indian crafts store. __________________ -- Visit http://www.KeithLoh.com \| stuff about living in Vancouver \| My Flickr photo gallery

February 18th, 2004, 04:38 PM	#162
Patrick Catanach New Boot Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Denver Posts: 6	Would agree on Bogen... I too have an XL1 and a Bogen Tripod (3021), and I have found that the "tubing" of the Bogen legs seems to be thick enough, that the weight of the XL1 stands firm, and the Tripod Head (3063) is strong enough, that the camera doesn't budge. Either way, just try and make sure the tripod you buy is thick enough to stand the weight. I have a "cheapy" that I purchased around $45, and the weight of the XL1 moved the head somewhat. Hope that helps and good luck shopping... __________________ Patrick Catanach Video Editor FaithWalk Productions PMB 152 9457 S. University Blvd. Highlands Ranch, Colorado 80126

February 18th, 2004, 09:21 PM	#163
David Stone Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 40	Thank you both for the information. I will try the pawn shop. Is it by Leo's camera or on the other end of Granville?

February 19th, 2004, 11:28 AM	#164
Keith Loh Air China Pilot Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Posts: 2,389	It's in that area of Granville, yes, but opposite side of the street. __________________ -- Visit http://www.KeithLoh.com \| stuff about living in Vancouver \| My Flickr photo gallery

May 16th, 2004, 10:34 PM	#165
Yi Fong Yu Trustee Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vulcan Posts: 1,564	Please recommend me an XL1S tripod quickly! i need one before 6/12. i'm shooting my friend's wedding. any suggestions? i need one that is not only good for this shoot but any shoot. i've heard from a friend of mine that said that bogen tripods such as the 3021n or 3021 pro are pretty GOOD if you also add the micro fluid heads. what do you guys think? cheaper alternatives? go with bogen? if so where do i buy it for a good price? i need this to arrive @me house BEFORE 6/12. thanks =). PS what about promaster tripods? __________________ bow wow wow