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Old January 31st, 2010, 01:00 AM   #1
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Help choosing a fluid head

Im after a head to support an 18lb rig. Ruled out Manfrotto and Cartoni due to the back-lash. So here's what i've narrowed it down to:

Sachtler FSB-8T
Sachtler DV-10 SB
Vinten Vision 5AS (how would this compare to the previous Vinten Vision 3 and 6?)

And a few I haven't ruled out because I can't find anything about them:

Miller Compass 20
Libec H60 and H70

Any suggestions?
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Old January 31st, 2010, 01:21 AM   #2
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Sticks are next on the list. Budget is $2500 USD for the head and sticks.
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Old January 31st, 2010, 01:21 AM   #3
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Hi Ciaran........

Budget?

Sticks?


CS
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Old January 31st, 2010, 01:36 AM   #4
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Chris - for some reason my reply went above your reply!
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Old January 31st, 2010, 03:38 PM   #5
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Split second timing............

by the looks of it.

To answer your Q re the Vision 5 AS compared to previous models, there's really no comparison to be made.

The new side load plate, re designed ergonomics and incomparable "perfect balance" system blows the previous offerings away. They've even got them smoother as well.

Something that would be usefull in your search, is to take a stab at working out the COG of that 18 pounds. This is so rig dependant (a sodding great monitor mounted right up top of the hot/ cold shoe, for example, raises the COG dramatically) that it's not as easy as it looks.

Vinten rates their heads weight/ COG abilities at a COG of 125 mm above the head plate, which is very high indeed.

Many of the new pro and semi pro camcorders have COG's somewhere between a gnats knee and waistline, so even if their mass falls within a heads weight limits, the low COG means they're actually too light by a country mile for a particular head.

This is particularly important with the Vinten AS range, as a camera that meets the mass/ COG attributes of a head will be able to counterbalance perfectly, down to the last gram.

The other manufacturers you mention all have stepped counterbalance (I believe), so the chances of getting it gram perfect are remote indeed.

Anyone who has never used a perfectly counterbalanced head/ camera rig just ain't lived.

I think the consensus in this Forum at this budget range would be Sachtler & Vinten by a country mile ahead of the competition.

I'm a dyed in the wool Vinten guy so would say Vinten any day (well, I would, wouldn't I?).

To me, Vinten has what I believe is a major advantage, especially here in NZ.

Whether you buy a Vinten from a Kiwi dealer or B&H (and there's quite a discussion to be had on that subject), as a registered Vinten owner, you've a direct line to Vinten support in the UK and THEY ARE HOT!

I've never known customer support like it, and I've never seen any other camera support manufacturer get such praise.

You'll get many, many recomendations for Sachtler as well, I'll let the Sachtler mob give you the low down on them.

See how you go with that COG.


CS

PS: NZ's Vinten dealer: http://www.protel.co.nz/video.html

PS2: Houston, we have a problem!

I've just done a search of Vinten 5 AS kits on B&H and the news is not good. The cheapest setup with a two stage tripod and mid level spreader is US$3,158! Add shipping, GST and Duty and you're looking at US$3,500 at least if bought from B&H in the States.

You might want to see what Protel can knock the appropriate kit out for, I found them very competitive in the past.

Last edited by Chris Soucy; January 31st, 2010 at 10:12 PM. Reason: ++Update
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Old February 1st, 2010, 05:15 PM   #6
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Sachtler DV10 at least is 100mm, what kind of camera it this 18lb rig? High COG? 18lb/8,5kg is close to what i would feel is the limit for 75mm or more the legs. Both Vinten AS5 and DV10 are beoynd the 2500 limit for legs and head. The FSB8T on Speedlock CF legs are about 2300 at BHP, I would go with CF legs if you end up with sachtler.

I agree with Chris on the perfect balance, I've only used it on Vison 100 but it's very good.
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Old February 2nd, 2010, 03:41 AM   #7
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Thanks Chris and Christian. I'm looking for a way of finding the COG, as I haven't got everything here yet i'm working on the manufacturer specs. I'd say the biggest effect on the rig will be from the Panny LCD which is 3.3lbs mounted on a 1lb Zacuto arm. I'm looking to balance the rig as much as possible by mounting the batteries on the back with weights, the whole rig will be spread along 24-inch rails.

Maybe I need to increase my budget a little, I found these two, the Vinten is quite a stretch from my budget, however the Sachtler is only $700 more.

Seems like 100mm bowl is a safe bet. Is the CF really worth the extra money over aluminium?

Sachtler 1060 DV-10SB SpeedBalance Aluminum Tripod System

Sachtler | 1060 DV-10SB SpeedBalance Aluminum Tripod | 1060

Vinten V8AS-AP2F Vision Pozi-Loc Aluminum Tripod System

Vinten | V8AS-AP2F Vision Pozi-Loc Aluminum Tripod | V8AS-AP2F
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Old February 2nd, 2010, 02:10 PM   #8
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I'll just throw this out there as a wild card--my trusty O'Connor 1030B has been seeing a lot more use lately as I am working with the Canon DSLR's, and everyone who lays hands on it (including Vincent Laforet) raves about it. I haven't tried the latest and greatest offerings from the other manufacturers, but it's a hard act to follow. They are built like tanks also, so if you can find one used, well worth it as you will be using it for many years to come (mine is probably 15 years old and flawless).
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Old February 2nd, 2010, 02:23 PM   #9
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Come in, Peter Harman...............

Think we might need to get some help here, as this is starting to get REAL expensive and a mistake would be disasterous.

Peter (yes, I'm e - mailing him privately as well) does Protel here have both a V 5 & V 8 AS system to try out, and if not, can you/ they sort one of each?

[For those not in the know, Peter is the Product Manager for Vinten UK, and THE MAN for this sort of thing]

Given that this rig is definately "non standard" I wouldn't be happy recommending anything without trying it first.

Ciaran, give Protel a buzz and ask them direct too, and find out who the Sachtler agent is here, you really DO NOT want to be lashing out this sort of dosh without a substantial test run.

The answer to your Q regarding CF is "most definately", aluminium just doen't cut the mustard, pound for pound.

Given the outlay being considered, that Sachtler "12 step" counterbalance is a cause for some concern. I can think of nothing worse than spending all that money and ending up with a system that doesn't quite get it right with the counterbalance, so the camera/ head always wants to droop/ lift, with a step just each side of perfect.

Ciaran, how long before you have a complete system that you can take for a test drive?

Are you in a position to make your way to both dealerships with a completed system?

[I'd like to think we could get the systems to you, but this could be a bit of an ask, no harm in trying tho' - where exactly are you?**].

Better bit of news, these bods are in Auckland too:

http://www.panavision.co.nz/Main/sal...?cat=FILMHEADS


CS

** Never mind, I Googled it. http://maps.google.co.nz/maps?hl=en&...ed=0CAkQ8gEwAA Good thing Protel has an Auckland office, what a stroke of luck.

Last edited by Chris Soucy; February 2nd, 2010 at 07:37 PM. Reason: Answered own stupid question.
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Old February 3rd, 2010, 09:09 AM   #10
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Loan Vinten kit

Hi everyone.

Our dealers are brilliant and have access to everything we offer. So if you need a Vision 3AS/5AS/8AS/10AS system to try, just let me know and ill arange it with the dealer or vice versa.

You can email me on peter.harman@vitecgroup.com or if you need to know who your nearest dealer is, simply go to Vinten | Dealer/Distributor Finder | www.vinten.com and enter your country from the drop down and give them a call.

All the best.

Peter
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Old February 3rd, 2010, 09:03 PM   #11
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good evening,

for your money invested Vinten will not dissapoint!! I use a VV6 and find it terrific.

If you do not mind changing springs the VV 3 or gitzo 1380 are good choices!! I use one of these with my lighter fx 1000 and it is great for it!!

Of course a 11,000 dollar sachtler should be better, eh?
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Old February 5th, 2010, 10:18 PM   #12
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I've got a previous model ("which has been blown away by current offerings") Vision 3 which I use regularly with 100-400mm lens (2.2kg) and I have to say the perfect balance on my setup is soooo good to use. I imagine the bigger brothers are superb as well with some other features thrown in.
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Old February 24th, 2010, 02:47 PM   #13
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Is it me..................

or has it gone very quiet here?

Helloo, anybody home?


CS
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Old February 24th, 2010, 03:58 PM   #14
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Chris,

Everybody on the site has now purchased a tripod for $1,500+ that perfectly suits their cameras and meets their needs. Shaky pans are now a thing of the past. Your mission is now complete.

... sorry, was I dreaming? :) :) :)
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Old February 24th, 2010, 05:05 PM   #15
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Dang................

Hope you were dreaming else I'll have to go get a life! (Shudders at thought).


CS
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