Vinten 3AS update Awesome! at DVinfo.net

Melvin Baggs · March 6th, 2010, 11:57 AM

In my last thread I was waiting for my Vinten 3AS head to arrive. I had received the spring to swap out for the lighter cameras from Peter Harman from Vinten.

Well, the head is awesome!

From all the tests I've done (up/down, around, back/forth, right/left 90 down, back to 0 and then 90 up) the head is rock solid even on the lightest setting, it does not move or drift at all.

Unless I'm missing something and I've vigorously whip panned from right to left this head Does Not Move!

I know it cost a premium price but what I've coming to learn is that you get what you pay for.

Thanks Peter/Vinten cause I can proudly say that I'm a Vinten Vision 3AS owner.

Melvin

Chris Soucy · March 6th, 2010, 01:20 PM

Glad you like the head, amazing, aren't they?

How are the sticks? As rigid as you'd like?

You may find BTW that with zero drag neccessary to keep the head in place, it all gets a bit "touchy" if you run it like that.

You'll probably need a bit of "play" time with it, but I think down the track you'll find yourself putting on more and more drag, especially at longer focal lengths, just to keep pans and tilts as smooth as possible.

This is not an inherrant fault with the head, but with our illustrious maker, who didn't quite get around to putting proportional drivers & feedback loops in our motor/ muscle circuits thus making a smooth arm movement of any length almost impossible.

The extra drag on the head helps to smooth the inconsitancies out quite a bit.

Glad you like, enjoy!

CS

Jon Fairhurst · March 6th, 2010, 01:25 PM

So, it's smooth up, down, left, and right. How about diagonal moves? Those are often the toughest. Any location where the drag is lighter in one dimension than the other will tend to stair step.

I expect to order a 3AC for my employer next week. I can't wait to try it out! (It's unfortunate that our fiscal year ends just *before* NAB.)

Chris Soucy · March 6th, 2010, 02:00 PM

that it doesn't matter how you move it, it's as smooth as a baby's butt, only smoother.

There are no hidden "gotchyas" with the AS heads in the moves department, just with the (human) arm controlling it.

CS

Jon Fairhurst · March 6th, 2010, 05:14 PM

A few years ago, my son and I rented an HVX on a $1,500 Cartoni HiDV system with 75mm ball. It wasn't a bad system, but we couldn't get a smooth diagonal for the life of us. We were going from tight zoom on an interesting object to a wide view. Because the object wasn't centered, we needed to diagonally pan, zoom and focus to make it work. The shot was a two man job and would have gone well except for the stair stepping. That same day we did a similar deal looking from the creek at our feet to the bridge above and to the side. We tried high, low and medium drag to no avail.

We used both shots. Artistically, they were the best of the day. But I still cringe when I look at the stair shaped hitches in the movement.

We had no problem at all when we stuck to one axis or the other.

That was the day I realized that cheap tripods were only good for keeping your camera off of the dirt and pointing in one direction. (Hopefully, without wind.) The Cartoni wasn't cheap, yet it still didn't deliver everything I wanted from it.

Melvin Baggs · March 6th, 2010, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

How about diagonal moves? Those are often the toughest. Any location where the drag is lighter in one dimension than the other will tend to stair step.

The head is more than I expected soooh smooth with those pretty strong black legs I'll date her any day ;-) .

As far as "diagonal" and "stair step" I'm too new in the game to know exactly what those terms mean. In fact before your forum response I can honestly say that I've never heard of them before as applied to video. But I believe I can figure them out, I'll have to try them out as well as the long focal length shots.

I'll keep you updated on my progress and learning curve as I discover any short cummins of the head, which will probably be only operator error.

Melvin

Jon Fairhurst · March 6th, 2010, 07:56 PM

For a diagonal move, just try panning from top left to bottom right or some other movement that is vertical and horizontal at the same time. The view should move in a straight line. Well, as straight as you can move your arm anyway.

A stair step is when, rather than diagonal, the head goes a bit to the right, then a bit down, then to the right, then down. It's like a zig-zag, rather than a straight line. That happens when the drag varies a bit. The head will guide your arm toward the path of immediate least resistance.

If you watch pro sports or a studio show, the tripods move in any direction in a straight line. It's partly due to skill, and partly due to the equipment. Even at a couple grand, our portable tripods don't quite match the pro field and studio stuff.

Melvin Baggs · March 6th, 2010, 10:41 PM

Got yah! As I said I've got a lot to learn but "practice makes perfect" and i'll be doing a lot of practice!

Melvin

Mike Holland · March 7th, 2010, 03:45 AM

To really get a proper feel for a head try taping a laser pointer to your camera on your properly balanced head and then see how you can follow a large figure 8 painted on a screen 3 or 4 metres away. This will sort the men from the boys.

Just make sure no-one is in front of the camera and that you switch the pointer off as soon as you have finished.

Mike

Peter Harman · March 7th, 2010, 04:41 AM

Diagonals or any other challenging move are actually easier on Vinten heads because the unique perfect balance system doesn’t influence the move. Heads that can’t balance perfectly are either too light i.e. the camera falls away from centre, or too heavy i.e. the camera returns to centre and/or both, and as a result, you as the operator have to deal with that effect in addition to watching the VF and controlling the framed move. Because the Vinten balance system offers perfect balance throughout the tilt, the effect is neutral and doesn’t come into play.
Mike is right when he says use a laser pointer. This is what we use here in the factory to test the drag performance. We use a figure 8 on the wall and the inspector has to follow the 8 without going outside the outline before the head is released.
Im gald you are happy with the kit Melvin. Good luck and let us all know how you get on.

March 6th, 2010, 11:57 AM	#1
Melvin Baggs Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Lathrup Village, MI Posts: 59	Vinten 3AS update Awesome! In my last thread I was waiting for my Vinten 3AS head to arrive. I had received the spring to swap out for the lighter cameras from Peter Harman from Vinten. Well, the head is awesome! From all the tests I've done (up/down, around, back/forth, right/left 90 down, back to 0 and then 90 up) the head is rock solid even on the lightest setting, it does not move or drift at all. Unless I'm missing something and I've vigorously whip panned from right to left this head Does Not Move! I know it cost a premium price but what I've coming to learn is that you get what you pay for. Thanks Peter/Vinten cause I can proudly say that I'm a Vinten Vision 3AS owner. Melvin

March 6th, 2010, 01:20 PM	#2
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,682 Images: 18	Hi Melvin............. Glad you like the head, amazing, aren't they? How are the sticks? As rigid as you'd like? You may find BTW that with zero drag neccessary to keep the head in place, it all gets a bit "touchy" if you run it like that. You'll probably need a bit of "play" time with it, but I think down the track you'll find yourself putting on more and more drag, especially at longer focal lengths, just to keep pans and tilts as smooth as possible. This is not an inherrant fault with the head, but with our illustrious maker, who didn't quite get around to putting proportional drivers & feedback loops in our motor/ muscle circuits thus making a smooth arm movement of any length almost impossible. The extra drag on the head helps to smooth the inconsitancies out quite a bit. Glad you like, enjoy! CS

March 6th, 2010, 01:25 PM	#3
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	So, it's smooth up, down, left, and right. How about diagonal moves? Those are often the toughest. Any location where the drag is lighter in one dimension than the other will tend to stair step. I expect to order a 3AC for my employer next week. I can't wait to try it out! (It's unfortunate that our fiscal year ends just before NAB.) __________________ Jon Fairhurst

March 6th, 2010, 02:00 PM	#4
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,682 Images: 18	I can assure you, Jon................... that it doesn't matter how you move it, it's as smooth as a baby's butt, only smoother. There are no hidden "gotchyas" with the AS heads in the moves department, just with the (human) arm controlling it. CS

March 6th, 2010, 05:14 PM	#5
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	A few years ago, my son and I rented an HVX on a $1,500 Cartoni HiDV system with 75mm ball. It wasn't a bad system, but we couldn't get a smooth diagonal for the life of us. We were going from tight zoom on an interesting object to a wide view. Because the object wasn't centered, we needed to diagonally pan, zoom and focus to make it work. The shot was a two man job and would have gone well except for the stair stepping. That same day we did a similar deal looking from the creek at our feet to the bridge above and to the side. We tried high, low and medium drag to no avail. We used both shots. Artistically, they were the best of the day. But I still cringe when I look at the stair shaped hitches in the movement. We had no problem at all when we stuck to one axis or the other. That was the day I realized that cheap tripods were only good for keeping your camera off of the dirt and pointing in one direction. (Hopefully, without wind.) The Cartoni wasn't cheap, yet it still didn't deliver everything I wanted from it. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

March 6th, 2010, 07:56 PM	#7
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	For a diagonal move, just try panning from top left to bottom right or some other movement that is vertical and horizontal at the same time. The view should move in a straight line. Well, as straight as you can move your arm anyway. A stair step is when, rather than diagonal, the head goes a bit to the right, then a bit down, then to the right, then down. It's like a zig-zag, rather than a straight line. That happens when the drag varies a bit. The head will guide your arm toward the path of immediate least resistance. If you watch pro sports or a studio show, the tripods move in any direction in a straight line. It's partly due to skill, and partly due to the equipment. Even at a couple grand, our portable tripods don't quite match the pro field and studio stuff. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

March 6th, 2010, 10:41 PM	#8
Melvin Baggs Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Lathrup Village, MI Posts: 59	Got yah! As I said I've got a lot to learn but "practice makes perfect" and i'll be doing a lot of practice! Melvin

March 7th, 2010, 03:45 AM	#9
Mike Holland Tourist Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 4	Testing a pan and tilt head. To really get a proper feel for a head try taping a laser pointer to your camera on your properly balanced head and then see how you can follow a large figure 8 painted on a screen 3 or 4 metres away. This will sort the men from the boys. Just make sure no-one is in front of the camera and that you switch the pointer off as soon as you have finished. Mike

March 7th, 2010, 04:41 AM	#10
Peter Harman Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: UK Posts: 73	Diagonals on your new Vision head Diagonals or any other challenging move are actually easier on Vinten heads because the unique perfect balance system doesn’t influence the move. Heads that can’t balance perfectly are either too light i.e. the camera falls away from centre, or too heavy i.e. the camera returns to centre and/or both, and as a result, you as the operator have to deal with that effect in addition to watching the VF and controlling the framed move. Because the Vinten balance system offers perfect balance throughout the tilt, the effect is neutral and doesn’t come into play. Mike is right when he says use a laser pointer. This is what we use here in the factory to test the drag performance. We use a figure 8 on the wall and the inspector has to follow the 8 without going outside the outline before the head is released. Im gald you are happy with the kit Melvin. Good luck and let us all know how you get on.