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Old May 6th, 2011, 10:55 AM   #1
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Vinten Vision Blue head: wedi cyrraedd! / has arrived!

After nearly two months of waiting, the VB head arrived from Germany this morning.
OMG, what a beautiful piece of kit; so well worth the wait.
Setting up the balance on my XF300 was simplicity itself.
I am so impressed with the movements that I can now undertake - it feels as if I was using one of the far more expensive heads that we use at the BBC for the day job.
There is no comparison with my old Manfrotto 503HDV (that might be relegated to the slider...)
If you're reading this Peter (you know who you are!) - my congratulaions to all at Vinten for producing this little marvel.
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Old May 6th, 2011, 11:15 AM   #2
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Re: Vinten Vision Blue head: wedi cyrraedd! / has arrived!

Welcome to the club, Robin! It is intersting to hear your comparison with the high-end gear you have access to in the day job.

I'm not sure what legs you are using, but I have the Vinten Pozilocs that come with the VB kit, and they are a pleasure. A heavy pleasure, but still a pleasure to use!
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Old May 7th, 2011, 02:55 AM   #3
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Re: Vinten Vision Blue head: wedi cyrraedd! / has arrived!

I really am almost afraid to say it, but.......................

I told you so!

Damn, I love being able to say that.

And yes, I agree heartilly, Peter and his team pulled a blinder with the VB, well done guys and guyesses.

Now, for their next trick, one that doesn't actually need a tripod..............bated breath!


CS
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Old May 7th, 2011, 06:52 AM   #4
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Re: Vinten Vision Blue head: wedi cyrraedd! / has arrived!

Being an enthusiastic Vinten Vision 3 owner moving to the Canon XF series of cameras, I stopped by the Vinten area at NAB specifically to look at the Blue. Loved it, of course.

However, Peter Harman, Product Manger at Vinten, and I tried a Canon XF105 on the Blue and found the camera significantly too light to balance properly. So at Peter's suggestion, I'm posting to remind our Vinten friends that they'll want to be developing an accessory to allow these light, new cameras to balance on a Vinten Blue. (Thanks, Peter -- it was a pleasure!).
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Old May 7th, 2011, 05:29 PM   #5
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Re: Vinten Vision Blue head: wedi cyrraedd! / has arrived!

Geez, Pete.....................

Damn near choked on my corn flakes when I read your post about the cam being too light and Vinten "developing an accessory" to let the light cams work with these heads.

I've been nagging (er, read advising) Peter (he'd probably say "ad nauseum") almost since the VB came out that "someone" needed to do exactly that and bloody pronto too.

It was as inevitable as sunrise that the cameras were gonna keep getting smaller, lighter and cheaper whilst the resolutions and frame rates continued to climb into the heavens and it is simply not possible to design and build heads capable of balancing such insignificant weights/ cog's without the cost going equally skywards (I will ignore, for the moment, the next quantum leap in support design, which is equally as inevitable, if still nowhere to be seen).

As this is an industry wide issue, not just a Vinten one, the answer will probably need to be generic, as I can see no point in every manufacturer trying to reinvent the wheel, so I would reccomend Vitec hand this one off to Manfrotto and let them do what they do so well, make add on gizmo's that fit just about anything.

If anyone wants to get in touch, I have a bomb proof, idiot proof and head make/ type/ counterbalance range independent design which allows just about any camera ever made to CB with just about any head you can name (with one proviso - the head must have a CB range in excess of the camera weight/ cog, not a lot to ask).

It takes into account the problems posed by fixed/ stepped/ changeable spring head designs that make getting correct CB on a par with winning the lottery, neat trick, if I do say so myself.

I'll keep nagging, someone will listen one day.


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Old May 17th, 2011, 04:40 AM   #6
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Re: Vinten Vision Blue head: wedi cyrraedd! / has arrived!

Hi Pete,

As someone who's about to order a Vision Blue system for use with a JVC GY-HM100E I was interested, and somewhat confused by your post. The data sheet for the XF105 says it's 2.7kg, the VB balance range is 2-5kg. Should it not have balanced ok, or have I missed something here?
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Old May 17th, 2011, 05:56 AM   #7
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Re: Vinten Vision Blue head: wedi cyrraedd! / has arrived!

David,

I've been researching a new camera, and have looked at the XF100. Isn't it more like 2.7lbs, not kg? Maybe I'm missing something there.

With battery, mic etc., it's probably close enough to the VB's payload range to work pretty well.
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Old May 17th, 2011, 06:08 AM   #8
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Re: Vinten Vision Blue head: wedi cyrraedd! / has arrived!

Is the Vb well suited for DSLR video use? With the light weights and all?
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Old May 17th, 2011, 06:45 AM   #9
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Re: Vinten Vision Blue head: wedi cyrraedd! / has arrived!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Beckett View Post
...have looked at the XF100. Isn't it more like 2.7lbs, not kg?...With battery, mic etc., it's probably close enough to the VB's payload range to work pretty well.
If you load the camera up with lots of weighty accessories, you may get it to work. But as Peter Harman anticipated before we tried it, the XF100/105 cameras are too light and with very little moment arm (very central center of gravity) owing to the squat form factor. By actual trial, the stock camera will not balance on a Vinten Vision Blue.

The XF105 without battery is 2.4 pounds and the XF100 is 2.2 pounds. The VB spec sheet lists the capacity as 4.6 to 11.0 lbs @ approx. 55 mm CofG.

There will be legions of small form-factor pro cameras like the XF100/105 out in the field in the years to come, so I have to believe that Vinten will be interested in providing a solution for that growing market.
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Old May 17th, 2011, 09:44 PM   #10
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Re: Vinten Vision Blue head: wedi cyrraedd! / has arrived!

Robin (or any other vision blue owner)

Is there any initial "sticking" that must be overcome when starting a pan or tilt after head has sat still for awhile?
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Old May 17th, 2011, 10:48 PM   #11
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Re: Vinten Vision Blue head: wedi cyrraedd! / has arrived!

Hi, Michael................

Nope, none whatsoever. No "sticktion", no "pullback" , no "slow, slow, quick, quick, slow", no anything.

There is, however, always a minimum level of drag which needs to be overcome, unlike some heads where "zero" really means 0, nothing whatsoever.

Although some shooters coming from cheap heads do find this unnerving at first, as the cheaper heads really need that zero to enable anything like a smooth pan/ tilt, it very quickly gets relegated to the "so what" basket with practice and does, indeed, significantly increase the smoothness of movement.

The reason for this "zero" setting is usually to prevent the cheaper tripods from winding up like a rubber band, the VB sticks don't exhibit this tendency so don't require totally zero drag, and the human body is exceedingly bad at keeping a constant speed movement without some restraining force to work against, hence the drag even at "zero" not being "zero".


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Old May 18th, 2011, 12:35 AM   #12
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Re: Vinten Vision Blue head: wedi cyrraedd! / has arrived!

Seconded - and seconded again!
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Old May 18th, 2011, 02:41 AM   #13
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Re: Vinten Vision Blue head: wedi cyrraedd! / has arrived!

Also, Vinten gives us the pleasure of "whip pan". Which is not a little bit freaky to begin with - just the ability to have a higher drag, for nice smooth slow shots, then quickly "whip" to another position, without messing round with the drag.

I'm not sure I'm explaining it well, but it is very nice!
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Old May 18th, 2011, 03:12 PM   #14
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Re: Vinten Vision Blue head: wedi cyrraedd! / has arrived!

Chris,

Thanks for the reply, Chris.

If I am hearing you correctly, There is a drag that one must overcome, but head moves evenly from start to finish. In other words, there is no initial binding to overcome which makes for a jerky start

I currently have a Mattews M25, which for the price is a nice tripod except for the initial pan or tilt. This may help explain where I am coming from.

Thanks again,

Michael
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Old May 18th, 2011, 05:29 PM   #15
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Re: Vinten Vision Blue head: wedi cyrraedd! / has arrived!

I think you've got it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Hutson View Post
There is a drag that one must overcome, but head moves evenly from start to finish. In other words, there is no initial binding to overcome which makes for a jerky start
Exactly.

If you read this post: Inside a Bogen 501

you'll note the presence of a "sticky goo" between two plates that provides the "stick". When panning one of those heads, the "stick" doesn't want to "un - stick" so the initial pressure on the pan bar simply winds up the tripod untill the "stick" lets go, which it does all of a sudden, causing a huge increase in the pan bar speed which lasts untill the user can reduce pan bar pressure.

This initial jerk is a Manfrotto 501/ 503 trademark and I'm suprised it hasn't been patented, along with the inevitable and equally patentable "pull back" at pan end.

It would appear from your comments that Mathews (?) and Manfrotto could get into a patent stoush over this type of behaviour.

In a bid to keep out of such a stoush, Vinten decided, wisely, to forgo such behaviour in it's heads.


CS

Last edited by Chris Soucy; May 18th, 2011 at 11:43 PM.
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