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Old September 14th, 2006, 01:20 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos
Is this true. How come BH Photo says they are fluid ?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation
Read this thread and you will know why it's not fluid: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ght=inside+501
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Old September 15th, 2006, 12:18 PM   #77
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I have a F100 head en route from EVS right now. Also arriving today are the legs and 516 from B&H, so I'll be sure to do a trial w/ both of them to see how they compare.

EVS had two left in stock when I called. Unfortunately their shipping costs are a touch high (around $80 for 3-day). Then of course two days after I order, B&H has them in stock again (from whom I could have saved $75). That's life I guess. At least EVS was 5x more of a pleasure to work with over the phone than B&H.


Does anyone know where to get an extra pan bar for this head?

Would this work:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation
Or how about this:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation

Thanks for your help. I think this tripod will be the last I need to buy for quite some time.
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Old September 15th, 2006, 12:39 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Bakala
Bogen heads are not fluid - they are friction. I'd go with Miller, Cartoni or Sachtler. They are more money but worth every penny in the long run. Get a small loan and pay it off over a year if you have to. I personally have Sachtler SB6 with carbon fibre legs and it's great. I wouldn't even consider Bogen.
I hate Bogen as much as you Jiri, but Bogen does make ONE head that's at least comparable (but still inferior) to the likes of Sachtler and Cartoni.

It's the 526 (which was formerly sold as 510). It has 3 drag click stops for each pan and tilt, and it changes "gears" (fluid cartridges) just like a Sachtler. I have one, if on a budget it's the only Bogen that I can say is passable.
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Old September 15th, 2006, 02:28 PM   #79
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That 526 does sound nice, but it's pretty expensive! At B&H the head only is almost $1500. Maybe they've raised the prices since you got it Nate. At the $1500 level I would definitely encourage looking around at the other brands, since even among high-end heads they all feel and operate slightly differently.

Chad, you might want to call up the USA Cartoni distributor (Ste-Man in L.A. 818-760-8240) to confirm the right pan handle. If I remember right, the pan handle attachment point (the rosette) on the Focus isn't the same size as their bigger heads and Cartoni's rosette isn't necessarily compatible with those from Bogen or any other brand.
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Old September 15th, 2006, 02:53 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Tim N Le
That 526 does sound nice, but it's pretty expensive! At B&H the head only is almost $1500. Maybe they've raised the prices since you got it Nate. At the $1500 level I would definitely encourage looking around at the other brands,
Doh. Yeah. I paid less than $1k for mine, which made it a pretty good value. At $1500 I'd look into others.

I think my post was more along the lines of "eh, Bogen makes like, *1* good head!"
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Old September 15th, 2006, 07:59 PM   #81
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Well, I've had a Bogen 503 for a year. I can say, as of right now, I hate it. The stiction on pans and especially tilts, when zoomed in, is horribly noticable. There is no setting to get rid of it unless it is completely loose.
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Old September 21st, 2006, 10:34 AM   #82
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516 and Focus compared

Ok, so I have both heads with me now. I have to send one back, but I'm still a little on the fence as to which that will be.

I have some concerns about the Focus head. It doesn't seem that it can be fully balanced at all angles. I've played with it for quite some time and in order to get any balance I need to mount it in an awkward way with the plate on the other side of the emergency stopper. In this way it hangs half way off the head... Any ideas on how to fix this? -A longer mount plate? What about rod supports? The HD100 is a really back-heavy camera w/ the pro batts. No matter what I try, it will not hold still at all angles. I can balance it for a good functional range, but not everything.

Also the pan bar is very flimsy. The Bogen head has rock solid bars (x2) and the Cartoni came with just one chopstick-like bar, which has a large amount of play in it, especially when extended. I still can't find any replacement handle online. The handles for the Delta heads are around $170.

Over all I'm feeling a bit under-whelmed by the Focus -especially for the price. My expectations were maybe a little too high. The action is very strong and smooth -better than the 516. It doesn't spring back slightly when you come to a stop like the 516, and itís easier to get a smooth pan. And since all that matters really is what the camera sees, I'll probably stick with the Focus (if I can figure out a solution for the mounting plate). But for look and feel, the 516 is a more solid build to me. At least the QR plate is long enough to balance this camera.

It's basically like comparing a great prosumer head with a not-so-great professional head. At least that's the feeling I get. Any thoughts?
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Old September 21st, 2006, 02:14 PM   #83
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i'd like to echo the sentiments made by Jiri, Mike, and Richard. I own a Bogen 501 head, have so for years. I don't like it. I find it's pretty near impossible to make smooth corrections from a stand-still without a jerk at the start.
In 2005 I went to NAB. If you've never gone, go, its really great. Anyway, I tried every tripod I could that would be suitable for my Canon XL2. I've found that the best way to test a head's smoothness it to try making small corrections from a still postion, and zoomed in if you really want to torture test it. Long story short, Bogen was the worst, Miller Arrow 30 was the best (I tried the Arrow 30 with an XL2) and by far the most expensive ($5199). One thing I found was that there wasn't much inbetween that I felt would really work for me. Keep in mind though for slow, small corrective movement, I like a fairly heavy amount of resistance, so someone who likes a really loose feel might have found more tripods to their liking. A light feel is great IF you can pull off the smooth movement that you need.
It's been over year since then, but I finally chose to upgrade my tripod, and I ordered the Miller Arrow 30 (waiting for it to be shipped). It's movement was flawless, and I actually found that the most resistance I wanted still wasn't the highest resistance setting on the head. Now this may seem like overkill, but I just wanted to end game the tripod situation, and I felt that it was worth the investment. I think that a tripod can almost be more important than the camera. This will sound silly, but I shot a video about horse riding, and used a Sachtler Video 20 tripod, with a Canon ZR10! All my tracking, panning shots were nice and smooth, and the client was really happy with the final product! Don't get me wrong, I love my XL2, but I think the sticks that you put under your camera can be just as important as anything else in the production, but again, that's only if you're the type of shooter that likes steady shots. There's lots of creative, effective, handheld work being done out there, which can really work.
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Old September 21st, 2006, 02:34 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Terpstra
I have some concerns about the Focus head. It doesn't seem that it can be fully balanced at all angles. I've played with it for quite some time and in order to get any balance I need to mount it in an awkward way with the plate on the other side of the emergency stopper. In this way it hangs half way off the head... Any ideas on how to fix this?
The JVC KA551U tripod adapter should allow you to balance it. It's pretty expensive but IMO worth it because you can quickly dismount and mount the camera without changing the balance and you won't have a long plate on the bottom of your camera. You can also use a standard Sony VCT-14 plate but you'd have to get the wedge plate separately. See this thread:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=69072

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Terpstra
It's basically like comparing a great prosumer head with a not-so-great professional head. At least that's the feeling I get. Any thoughts?
That's pretty much the same conclusion I came too. But the Cartoni head is only $800 so it is what it is. A real professional head start at $1500 or $2000 and go way up from there. I use to think it was crazy to spend $2K, $3K or even $4K on a fluid head. But then I told myself to stop to monkeying around and just get the best head you can. It'll be cheaper in the long run and you'll be happier from the get-go, especially if you're a stable shot freak like me. I hate handheld.

But even if money was no object, one problem with getting a professional head is most of them are designed for ENG cameras so they won't balance a smaller, lighter camera. Cal, how were you able to operate the ZR10 on that Sachtler Video 20? I think the lightest spring setting on that head is 22 lbs. Were you just fighting the counterbalance spring?
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Old September 21st, 2006, 03:12 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim N Le
Cal, how were you able to operate the ZR10 on that Sachtler Video 20? I think the lightest spring setting on that head is 22 lbs. Were you just fighting the counterbalance spring?
Absolutely. I had to keep the resistance under control, but it still worked really well. Not ideal though.
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Old October 6th, 2006, 10:18 AM   #86
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JVC GY-HD100 Tripod Mount

I was looking on the JVC website and one of the accessories listed was the KA-551U tripod adapter. My question is can I mount the camera on a tripod without the $300 adapter?
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Old October 6th, 2006, 11:02 AM   #87
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Yes. I mounted mine on a bogan 503 head just fine.
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Old October 6th, 2006, 11:02 AM   #88
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Yes, you can. The tripod plate is a nice quick release, and allows you to balance the camera a lot better.

For bigger tripods, it's a must-have. I don't think I could mount the camera on my Miller 25 without that plate.
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Old October 18th, 2006, 10:21 AM   #89
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I had experience with the 516 head, 3191 legs, and 501 head

I have had a continuing relationship with Bogen tripod products, in stills and video realms, for many years.

I got the mini and micro fluid heads and respective legs to hold smaller cams when shooting vhs. When I got a heavier pro camera weighing 25 lbs, I tried a used Miller 20 head and Bolex legs. I eventually sold all of it.

Then I had a 20 lb pro SVHS cam and got the 3191 legs and 516 head. The load was just over capacity, and there was enough play in the system to make it visible on screen unless I moved things, pan or tilt, very gingerly. There was not enough counterbalance force to prevent nose over. There may have been enough with a lighter and smaller cam, and I credit the design for having somewhat variable counterbalance force. But it lacked compared to a higher end Sachtler or similar. I sold the camera and that tripod system and got a PD 150 and eventually a Bogen 501 head for my older aluminum legs.

I know for a fact that the 501 and other Bogen heads are not real fluid in the sense of an O'Connor, Sachtler, or Cartoni from having disassembled them to replace the grease. They contain concentric staggered rings which create a fluid effect when the grease acts as a lubricant between them. The pan part is a simple cylinder in housing with similar grease.
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Old October 20th, 2006, 01:13 PM   #90
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I'm interested in getting the tripod plate, but haven't seen one for the HD100U in person. Does it work like other ENG plates in the fact there is metal attachements that are fixed to the bottom of the JVC and then the camera clicks into place on the plate? Or does the HD100 as is fixate itself onto this plate?
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