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Old April 27th, 2009, 02:39 AM   #16
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Sorry Steve..............

that just ain't so.

My Vinten FiberTecs are the equivalent of bolting the head to a block of concrete.

The sticks are good, the head is good, it's that damn 1/4" S&W screw which lets the entire setup down.

The only way to stop my XH A1 from rocking back and forth sideways in a breeze is to physically strap it down to the head using, er, straps.

The underside of the camera is covered with this mushy rubber stuff, the 1/4" screw was never designed to prevent sideways wobble (not a big call for it with still photography, where it came from) and the result is a complete load of bollocks as soon as the breeze gets over 10 knots.

Untill someone gets there heads around introducing a universal 4 point fixing system which absolutely prevents the camera from being able to wobble, it will.

Having 10 grand of camera sitting on 10 grand of camera support, with the two joined by one poxy 1/4", 25 cent screw is absolutely beyond belief with High Definition.


CS
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Old April 27th, 2009, 03:48 AM   #17
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Sorry Chris...

but that ain't so! Maybe it's because your camera's so light, but certainly I don't have any sort of wobble relating to the screws on my gear. I use fairly beefy rigs like HDCam and Varicam with long lenses on an O'Connor 2060 on Sachtler heavy duty legs and I can assure the mounting is solid as a rock. Admittedly it uses 2 beefy 3/8" screws, but I have used 1/4" and it makes no difference. The screws are not taking any pressure, that's the plate, and as long as that's nice and strong the screws are irrelevant.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one I think.
I do agree about the rubber bits on the plates though, and I have removed them in the past when I used a Sachtler Studio II as they seemed as though they could only cause problems, why not just have 2 bits of metal pressed directly together instead of soft rubber!? It's to stop sideways twisting of the camera on the plate of course for those cameras that only have 1 mounting hole, but most pro gear allows several screws to be used so the rubber bit is not needed.
Steve
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Old April 27th, 2009, 05:49 AM   #18
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Well, guess it's a ..............

All Blacks - Wales no score draw, then!

Hard to believe, but miracles do, now and then, happen.

Nah, bollocks, we dished youse, simple as that.


I jest, of course.

Steve, work with me on this.

I'm seriously trying to get both the camera manufacturers and the support people to agree there needs to be a new attachment worked out that gets away from the single 1/4" or dual 3/8" screws.

This is really a major problem. You may not have seen it, but I have, and it's only going to get worse as HD works through the community.

That 1/4" screw fixing worked (and works) well for still camera operators as their cameras are a damn sight wider than they are longer (at least where they touch the tripod head).

A video camera is long and thin and thus has very little sideways purchase on the head, and very little "outrigger" ability to resist a sideways wobble.

My point is that:

a) This camera profile isn't going to change any time soon.

b) It really doesn't work all that well.

c) It wouldn't cost the Earth to come up with a 4 point fixing that would put both existing attachment systems out of their misery.

d) For HD there really isn't another solution.

Still, if you think the existing system is perfect, so be it.

I don't, and am trying to change it, and have the ear of one of the majors in this, and may, just, be getting traction.

It's either on the cart or not, I guess.


CS
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Old April 27th, 2009, 05:59 AM   #19
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I think if you're talking about little handycams and even EX1/3 type cameras then yes you do have a big point. Not only is the single 1/4" screw not enough the bases themselves are so plasticky and weak that they do bend and flex.
With pro cams though I think it's a different matter. With Sony and Panasonic broadcast cams once you get rid of the stupid quick release plate that wobbles all over the place, the base of the camera is pretty robust. It's then just a case of getting a proper baseplate on there (Ronford Baker make an SAP and PAP plate for Sony and Panny repsectively that is excellent, or you can get one machined for yourself). Typcially these plates have 3/4" and 1/4" holes all the way along the base so that depending on what type of head and mounting plate you have you can have 2, 3 or even more 3/8" screws holding it on.
Same goes for the RED cameras (as Alberto has), and Phantom HD, plus film cameras etc., all have good strong mounting options. Once you have this I don't think the screw size or amount of them makes any difference.
Steve
ps I'm not Welsh, I just live here - and can't stand or understand rugby!
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Old April 27th, 2009, 06:38 AM   #20
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For all my long lens camera work with Nikkors I prefer to use the actual Lens Tripod Mount rather than the video camera tripod attachment screw. This balances the the kit far better, and it also allows you the option to attach the camera body to a second tripod or via a longer 'stepped' tripod mount plate with double-fitting when on a single tripod.
I mainly use Canon XL bodies with heavy-duty tripod plates, but the same system can be used with the Red when using lenses that have lens tripod mounts.

The problem is that a lot of lenses have crap flimsy tripod mounts, but most of the hefty super-telephoto ED Nikkors have very solid tripod mounts and with the added advantage of some heavy duty plates that have numerous mounting screw holes it allows you to really fix the set-up nicely to prevent flexing or wobble.

However, even with these setups there can be some very slight flex in some areas, especially in the lens bayonet mount and lens adapter bayonet fitting.

I very rarely pan with such setups and whenever I'm filming static subjects or fixed points (such as a bird at the nest or animal near den entrance etc, filmed at extreme distance and normal hide work) I much prefer to lock the camera/tripod setup down, place extra beanbags on the lens or an extra weighted bag hanging from the tripod hook, and then control the camera functions via a remote control device.
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Old April 28th, 2009, 06:07 PM   #21
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Good evening,



Using the bigger lenses requires a rail of some sort.

the tripod plate should be double screwed to the camera if possible.


Using a canon quick mount to the rear and a locking mount from the lens foot to the rail will help stabiliztion big time, however heavy winds will require added weight and heat/light distortion can't be stopped as far as I know.

keeping camera low to ground if possible, a portable windbreak, image stabilization and getting closer will all help in this regard.


I wish there was an easy solution, regardless of the type of camera you use!!
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Old April 29th, 2009, 03:56 PM   #22
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There is a good DV-thread here covering the Ronsrail and other types of rails and supports for long lenses:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/under-wat...gma-zooms.html
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