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Tools & Techniques for Nature, Outdoors, Wildlife & Underwater Videography.


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Old August 8th, 2005, 08:49 PM   #16
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Since the original post was in this HDV section, I think it's safe to assume the guy wants HDV footage. That means, at this point, only footage from the FX1, the Z1 or the single chip versions that JVC and Sony have on the market. Soon we can add the 3 chip JVC 100 to the mix.

The point is, 300 bucks for a lockdown shot from a prosumer type camera that costs only $5K or so isn't a bad deal--ASSUMING you don't sell the copyright to the footage and only sell certain rights. You'd have to read the fine print carefully. Stock footage companies never sell anybody the full rights to a shot, and they can sell the same shot over and over again.
If one person wants to pay you 300 bucks for a shot, you ought to be able to sell it to other stock footage companies too for the same amount or more.

This is the kind of thing you don't hire on to do, ie., to go shoot for 300 bucks a day. But, if you live in a cool, scenic place and have the camera and aren't doing anything useful on a Sunday morning, why not make 300 bucks for carrying your camera and tripod with you for a few hours.

On the other hand...people in the business world are always trying to get stuff cheap and not pay what it's really worth. So if I were going to go for this deal, I would want a decent cut of the action, ie., residuals...a payment everytime the shot is sold. I would think if the percentage were fair, instead of taking 300 bucks for a shot, you would be better off to put it out on consignment and get paid every time they sell it to somebody. But then...how do you keep 'em honest? Film distributors have been screwing film makers almost since the invention of the motion picture camera.
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Old August 9th, 2005, 04:52 PM   #17
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HDV work for you

Jason, just wondering if HDV Z1 footage will work for you. By the end of January when our season slows down we should have thousands of scenics and thousands of nature/animals on HDV there will be 9 camera guys weekly all over the country till the end of January. Just inquiring, Thanks.
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Old August 9th, 2005, 11:50 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John M. McCloskey
Jason, just wondering if HDV Z1 footage will work for you. By the end of January when our season slows down we should have thousands of scenics and thousands of nature/animals on HDV there will be 9 camera guys weekly all over the country till the end of January. Just inquiring, Thanks.
Mike McCloskey
Mossy Oak Productions
Field Production Supervisor
Shoot me an email and I'll send you my phone number. apparently there is some movement in the area of consumer decks (both hd-dvd and blu-ray are due to have something within a few months -- yeah, I know, we've heard it before...but this is on pretty good authority) Installed base will be small at first, but so will the amount of software available.
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Old August 11th, 2005, 12:48 AM   #19
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This thread is a Buzzkill...

I say shoot some footage and GIVE it to him for FREE... :)
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Old August 11th, 2005, 09:29 AM   #20
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<<Bill Binder: This thread is a Buzzkill...>>

Yeah, reality . . .

<<<I say shoot some footage and GIVE it to him for FREE... :)>>>

If you think about all the time and money invested by dozens for each
clip ultimately accepted and 'paid for', it is free.

I can also predict that when thousands and thousands of "oysters"
are dumped on the dock, most to languish until they rot, even the
pearls will lose their value.

Videoguy: "How'd you like that last reel of stuff I sent from my Yosemite
balloon flight?"

Broker: "Well . . . *I* love it, BUT, my buyers just purchased an hour
of pretty nice Yosemite footage for $30. This new kid was happy to
get anything out of it. For him it's a love thing, so I really can't do
$300 any longer. Sorry."

Videoguy: "But, it isn't the same thing. I mean, the stuff I sent in is GREAT."

Broker: "DUDE, you're DREAMING. They got MORE than what they need, sorry. Now, if you want to talk price, we'll talk . . . lay-tah. Ba bye!"

CLICK!
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Old August 11th, 2005, 09:31 AM   #21
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Free Buzzkill?

It takes electricity to charge batteries, your camera looses value with hours used, tapes cost money, gas costs money,and time in post costs money. So Bill it's impossible to give free footage any way you look at it money is involved, just giving a FACT.
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Old August 11th, 2005, 11:28 AM   #22
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DuuuuDE, it's not about money, it's about LOVE :)

He was kidding.
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Last edited by Jacques Mersereau; August 11th, 2005 at 06:35 PM.
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Old August 11th, 2005, 12:02 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John M. McCloskey
It takes electricity to charge batteries, your camera looses value with hours used, tapes cost money, gas costs money,and time in post costs money. So Bill it's impossible to give free footage any way you look at it money is involved, just giving a FACT.
Yeah, but that's MY money not the person on the receiving end's money. So, yes, it can still be FREE for some people, and of course, it wants to be free (free like LOVE).

I'll have to say, some of us are into this for FUN, not careers, but sometimes the career people have a really hard time with that. I mean why would anyone in their right mind spend so much money on gear if they weren't going to sell it or make a career out of it? Man, that's a short sighted view of the world. This has nothing to do with being rich, and everything to do with loving to make videos. It's art.

So, for all of the protectionists out there, you better start getting used to this, because at the rate this high-end hardware and more user-friendly software is becoming available at very reasonable prices to anyone who wants it and is motivated to learn how to use it, the industry is in for some big, big changes down the road. I mean once that $2K HDV cam from Sony comes out (maybe it is already?), or any of these newer prosumer cams for that matter, pretty much anyone can shoot HDV footage if they want to, and they can sell it, dump it for free, release it via creative commons license, or simply post as royalty-free on the web whenever and however they please. And yeah, a lot of it will be crap, and producers will always be willing to pay more for the pro stuff, but if you're worried about this trend now, just wait five more years when people will be posting HDV footage on their web blogs as a matter of routine.

Alright, maybe I'm exagerating a bit, but I'm trying to make a point here... Get over it already, it's a free market economy, and supply and demand for both low- and high-quality footage will determine its own price, not some sort of price-fixing scheme where we all conspire not to "dump" HDV footage on the market for $<fill in blank dollars here> per second. If I want to shoot it and give it away, I will, no one can stop me, and I'll enjoy doing it.
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Old August 11th, 2005, 12:35 PM   #24
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Take it easy Bill, we're all friends here.

I believe you are correct in your predicitons.
Already we've seen that most people will no
longer pay an editor $50 per hour, even with his own system.
Not long ago, that was the price without having to invest money.

I guess I am just sour graping about the fact that a plumber now
makes far more money than most people in video and the plumber
doesn't have to get on his knees as often :)

Jacques "TrollingforOysters" Mersereau
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Old August 11th, 2005, 01:55 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Binder
Just a thought to ponder, and now let the flames begin...
All: the flames are put out as soon as they're kindled around here. If you are looking for someplace where the members flame each other then you're on the wrong site.

Actually, I pretty much agree with your points, but we simply will not allow name calling or flaming here. When it happens then the posts get edited or deleted and threads end up getting locked.

Please, let's have a friendly debate on this topic and avoid the personal dimension.
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Old August 11th, 2005, 02:57 PM   #26
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And just to add to Boyd's explanation, I have indeed edited this thread, including the "flames" comment quoted above. Allow me to point out once again:

We do not tolerate flaming or trolling here. Period. Please keep that in mind. If confrontation is on your agenda, then you're at the wrong site. Thanks,
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Old August 11th, 2005, 07:34 PM   #27
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I guess what I see happening in the video business is much the same
as the audio business. The Alesis digital 8 track machine and
Mackie 32 8 Bus changed the recording business. It meant more
people got into recording, but a lot of good studios went under.
That's been happening in video too.

This is a time of major upheaval, but I have a feeling the big will keep
making movies, ads and TV, and the little guys are going to have a
tougher time. People reading this should to be aware of these issues.
There's nothing wrong with debate, thinking about fair market value
(what you and your work are worth)
and trying to plan ahead for those who want to make video a career.

I have a good job running a video studio, and I helped craft
an award winning documentary, so . . . it's not about me.

Peace, love, & understanding.
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Old October 31st, 2005, 11:24 AM   #28
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Ah folks, what saddens me more than all of this is the publics' ability to accept lesser quality. If you want to blame anyone for the lack of pay and quality, blame the average Television viewer. You can also blame the average movie goer for films moving up north of the US border and other places too.

Explain please? Why sure...

If the average person is acccepting crummy looking video than yes, any kid with a rich daddy and a new JVC HD100 will be shooting skateboarding and surfing video all day long. He'll probably get a few shots that sell for a few hundred bucks and yes, the guy next to him will have some footage, etc. Pretty soon someone is putting together a show with this footage or hires these guys but, the quality has suffered but will the general public care or notice? I doubt it.

Look at the shows the people are watching. Reality shows? What happened to writing, editing, real video and audio work. People are shooting these shows with $3000 cameras.

Who's going to use a Viper and a real Steady Cam operator when they can use a handheld Glidecam (not knocking Glidecam I love mine) and a DVX100a?

Anyway, if the people watching wanted real video and it mattered to them, they would stop watching bad video and folks might find out they really respond to well shot, lit, interesting dialog and story lines, etc.

The major networks would decide they need to put some money into real programs and the money would begin to flow uphill again. It's going to be a while folks. Dig in.

So is this new trend killing off some places - sure it is. My last Engineering gig went south due to downsizing. Not with our company directly but as a result of our major clients going to lesser quality/capable houses because they were "good enough". Remember when the average person didn't have a web site or blog? Those that did have them, for the most part, paid attention to the rules of HTML, used some sense of graphics and made some darn sense. Now you get pages with dark backgrounds and black text or flowery images that float behind the text, etc. Not professional and yet, folks still make them and folks still go to them.

I blame the viewers.

My views may not reflect those of the management.

And in closing "... There is a pestilence upon this land. Nothing is sacred. Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history."

Sean McHenry
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Old October 31st, 2005, 12:15 PM   #29
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Jason: I have HDV footage of Yosemite, the Golden Gate Bridge and Lake Tahoe which I might consider licensing out. Please send me an email at info@videomem.com with more details about what you need and how this would work.

As far as trends in the industry are concerned, one could argue that video/film production is going through a similar maturing process which has affected many other types of business, from steel to microchips. When only a few people can do something then everyone goes to those people and pays whatever they have to pay for the results. After a while it gets less expensive to do an acceptable job (and also easier to do an incompetent one), so there are more people offering the product or service and basic prices drop. If you want top dollar you have to really offer something special, and after a while even that becomes a tough sell. This trend is good in some ways and not so good in others, but I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for something different to happen.
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Old October 31st, 2005, 02:24 PM   #30
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I'm hoping at some point in the near future, larger companieswill tire of popping from one inexperienced fly-by-night editor/post place to the next and settle on folks they know can get a good clean job done for them.

In "Studio" this month is a nice 2 page blurb about this. Figuring out what your time is worth. All valid to this discussion.

Until I got worn out recently, I was charging a modest $50 per hour to edit at my facility/home. I had folks driving in from an hour away 2-3 times a week to edit. I was a bit under the scale here but I am a fledgling operation, or was. Now that I am back Engineering for a major post facility again, my time is more important to me than the extra income.

My odd jobs paid for my modest setup and I am grateful for that. Lately I have been working on simple shorts and writing some minor scripts for future works. I'm happy again. I am doing it all for me now.

Sean McHenry

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