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Old September 11th, 2006, 11:09 PM   #16
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Gabriel
Just to make sure you understand the digital 8 vs hi 8.
The digital 8 records on to hi 8 tapes the same digital data as DV does. These camcorders offer the same firewire transfer, same editing ability. It was sony's attempt at a transitional camera, since it would also take hi 8 tapes and convert them to digital

For your budget, these cameras offer you much of the same ability as the dv camcorders. You mentioned that you were interested in wildlife, here as I mentioned the 25x optical zoom on the trv340 is pretty unique in its class, with most other camcorders only in the 10-20 x range.

Trying out various options is always a good idea. Indi film making, wildlife productions are much more influenced by the skills the camerman brings to the production than the actual equipment.
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Old September 12th, 2006, 12:19 AM   #17
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Hi Gabriel,

I'm really very impressed by your attitude. Good on you. Go for it. Don't let anybody discourage you or underate you because you're 14 yrs old. When I was 14, video hadn't been invented so I started with a 8mm film camera with clockwork mechanism. You had to turn a handle to wind it up.

As Per says, try a video club. If they wont take on a 14yr old student they're not worth their salt so try another club.

I agree with Sharyn. A digital 8 with 25x zoom lens would be a pretty good start. I have used digital 8 as well as three chip Canon, Sony and JVC cameras. In my opinion as far as one chip cameras go the Digital 8 is better than the mini small one chip cameras as it's a larger camera to hold and keep steady, plus it takes pictures just as good as any one chip camera.
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Old September 12th, 2006, 09:25 AM   #18
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gabriel, i would not be shy about getting a cheap, decent one-chip camcorder and spending your budget on other gear. i have a canon ZR100 which i use as a deck. i have occasionally shot with it, mostly home movies of my child, but the image is pretty good. what will separate your videos is not the camera you use, but how you compose your shots, how you use lighting, how you stabilize your images, and how you use the available post-production tools. and also getting decent audio. for learning at your age and level of experience, i would say, buy the one-chip, experiment as much as you possibly can, and then, when you have the funds, buy a 3-chip camcorder and convert your one-chipper into a deck, which you will probably want anyway if you end up purchasing more expensive gear later.

there are so many things you can learn on a less-expensive camera. and you can use cheaper tripods, monopods, etc. the associated gear can be obtained for much less. at the budget you're suggesting, you would do well to get some skills, make as much good video as you can, make a demo reel, and use that reel to get some real work a few years from now. if an 18-year-old kid came to me with that kind of initiative, i'd hire him on the spot, because he would have all the other elements in place, and using manual controls on a more expensive camera would be just a matter of practice and time spent on whatever camera i will be providing employees four years from now....(whew! it's mind-boggling to consider!)

in the right hands, most people can't even tell the difference between one- and three-chip images, especially if you're making web video where you're severely compressing the image anyway. i have a friend whose first distributed video was made on a one-chip camera, and it won all kinds of film festival awards. she even received an all-expenses paid trip to italy on the strength of one-chip camera images. most of her artistry is in post-production, and everyone is blown away when they see her video, and she tells them it was done with a single-chip camera. dylan couper, who runs the DV Challenge made a short with a one-chip camera which put all the rest of our modest efforts to shame.

the difference between zoom and macro is that zoom is something that you use when you're far from your object to get closer, and macro is a lens you use close-in, to get closer. some people use zoom lenses to do macro work, but you can't really use macro lenses to do zoom work. macro work is also known as close-up work and is usually something like bugs or flowers--something where you are trying to show detail not readily view-able by the naked eye. you are doing the same thing with a zoom, of course, showing bits of the bear that you can't get close enough to see, but you are standing far from the object to do it. make sense?
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Old September 12th, 2006, 11:18 AM   #19
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Thanks guys! You've all been a great help to me! Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meryem Ersoz
gabriel, i would not be shy about getting a cheap, decent one-chip camcorder and spending your budget on other gear. i have a canon ZR100 which i use as a deck. i have occasionally shot with it, mostly home movies of my child, but the image is pretty good. what will separate your videos is not the camera you use, but how you compose your shots, how you use lighting, how you stabilize your images, and how you use the available post-production tools. and also getting decent audio. for learning at your age and level of experience, i would say, buy the one-chip, experiment as much as you possibly can, and then, when you have the funds, buy a 3-chip camcorder and convert your one-chipper into a deck, which you will probably want anyway if you end up purchasing more expensive gear later.

there are so many things you can learn on a less-expensive camera. and you can use cheaper tripods, monopods, etc. the associated gear can be obtained for much less. at the budget you're suggesting, you would do well to get some skills, make as much good video as you can, make a demo reel, and use that reel to get some real work a few years from now. if an 18-year-old kid came to me with that kind of initiative, i'd hire him on the spot, because he would have all the other elements in place, and using manual controls on a more expensive camera would be just a matter of practice and time spent on whatever camera i will be providing employees four years from now....(whew! it's mind-boggling to consider!)

in the right hands, most people can't even tell the difference between one- and three-chip images, especially if you're making web video where you're severely compressing the image anyway. i have a friend whose first distributed video was made on a one-chip camera, and it won all kinds of film festival awards. she even received an all-expenses paid trip to italy on the strength of one-chip camera images. most of her artistry is in post-production, and everyone is blown away when they see her video, and she tells them it was done with a single-chip camera. dylan couper, who runs the DV Challenge made a short with a one-chip camera which put all the rest of our modest efforts to shame.

the difference between zoom and macro is that zoom is something that you use when you're far from your object to get closer, and macro is a lens you use close-in, to get closer. some people use zoom lenses to do macro work, but you can't really use macro lenses to do zoom work. macro work is also known as close-up work and is usually something like bugs or flowers--something where you are trying to show detail not readily view-able by the naked eye. you are doing the same thing with a zoom, of course, showing bits of the bear that you can't get close enough to see, but you are standing far from the object to do it. make sense?
Thanks for your kind comments, Meryem. You have helped me thru this a lot! I do think I'll do What you have said. Buy a "good" cheep camera, and just practice a lot.

Yes the macro now makes since. Thank you!
~Gabriel~
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Old September 13th, 2006, 02:31 AM   #20
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Gabriel, if you look for a used Digital8 camcorder, as some people have suggested, a TRV730 would be the best. It has a MegaPixel, super-HAD CCD and produces pictures quite a bit better than the Digital8 camcorders with lower model numbers. Also in this MegaPixel series are the TRV830/740/840.
The 730/830 are a bit better, as they have larger CCDs than the 740/840.
I've had a TRV730 for more than 5 years and the video quality I've gotten for its price, is amazing. It also has a 1-MegaPixel still mode with a MemoryStick camera card and with its long 18X lens and a telextender, gives pretty good, longrange digital photos that are suitable for Internet use (actually, for memory mode photos, it only has 14X, as the digital image-stabilization goes off and makes the effective CCD size larger). It has a USB port and can play the card photos taken in my VX2100, that does not have USB. Good luck in finding and using a camcorder. We'll all enjoy hearing about the projects you do.
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Old September 13th, 2006, 03:16 AM   #21
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I'd second what Steve says as well. It's the Sony TRV 730 I have used. It's low light capabilities are pretty outstanding. In my opinion as far as low light it goes better than the Canon XL series as I'm quite familar and own one as well as the D8. I took some footage late one evening, nearly dark conditions of a rabbit on the Sony digital 8. When I was shooting the light was very low. The video image was clearer than in real life.

Meryem got it when he said it's framing, composition, editing and story telling makes one get noticed. Buy the best you can comfortably afford. Suggest to your family and friends that they give you money for Christmas and birthday for gear, and practice your camera work. All the best. I'm sure you will have a bright future.
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Old September 13th, 2006, 10:29 AM   #22
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Thanks, everyone! Its great to know that I have a place to go for help, and encouragement. Thank you, Chris Hurd!

Do any of the TRV lines use firewire? Oh yeah, is there any chance of someone posting some footage?
Thanks again!
~Gabriel~
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Old September 13th, 2006, 10:11 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel Yeager
Do any of the TRV lines use firewire? Oh yeah, is there any chance of someone posting some footage?
Thanks again!
~Gabriel~
All of the Sony Digital8 TR and TRV models have FireWire (Sony calls it "i.Link"). A few of the less expensive ones don't have analog inputs or analog/digital "pass-through" conversion. The TRV730 has everything, including jacks for USB, LANC, S-Video, composite video, stereo audio, mike and headphones. It also has NightShot, M-PEG Movies and Continuous Shooting of up to 16 consecutive still frames in memory mode. It has electronic image stabilization (EIS) that works better than some optical stabilizers I've used. Its low-light capabilities are very good and with 690,000 active pixels for video, I've been able to seamlessly edit in clips from it with those from my 3-CCD VX2100.

Attached is a still shot I took 4 years ago with my TRV730 in MemoryStick mode. The aperture was at 4.0 and the shutter at 1/125. The pixel-size is 1152 X 864 or .995 MP. The bit-size is 520kb (it might use up to 600kb for one photo). It was set in Superfine mode and there's also Fine and Standard that use less storage bits. This model also shoots 640 X 480 stills that would typically have a bit-size of 190kb in Superfine mode.

The Continuous Shooting memory mode has some great uses. In sports action, I can set it for 640 X 480 Superfine and get 16 frames in a row on the memory card. Going through these photos later, I can select out the one or two that have the exact images I want and quickly dump the rest. It does 4 continuous images at the 1154 X 864 setting and this performs a nice function when I shoot flying birds, often giving me a usable frame where I might have gotten a dud, if I'd just clicked a single shot.

I think Sony recognized its mistake in making these full-featured, MegaPixel Digital8 models and selling them at such a low price, as they discontinued them 4 years ago.
Attached Thumbnails
Best camera for wildlife/nature videography?-dsc00018.jpg  

Last edited by J. Stephen McDonald; September 14th, 2006 at 03:10 AM.
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Old September 13th, 2006, 10:48 PM   #24
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Thanks. It looks pretty good. Any footage? Does it work with mac tho? I have heard that some older model cameras don't. I don't know if this is one of them or not. Do you know?
Thanks!
~Gabriel~
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Old September 17th, 2006, 04:14 PM   #25
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News station?

Do you guys think it would be a good thing to try and get an internship at a local news station in the near future? I was thinking maybe that way I can get some experience in live editing and pro equipment. But I don't know. Do you guys think its a good idea, to try?

~Gabriel~
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Old September 17th, 2006, 05:17 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel Yeager
Do you guys think it would be a good thing to try and get an internship at a local news station in the near future? [...] Do you guys think its a good idea, to try?
ALWAYS worth a shot. Good luck.

- Mikko
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Old September 17th, 2006, 05:20 PM   #27
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Thanks! I will.

~Gabriel~
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Old September 17th, 2006, 08:20 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel Yeager
Do you guys think it would be a good thing to try and get an internship at a local news station in the near future? I was thinking maybe that way I can get some experience in live editing and pro equipment. But I don't know. Do you guys think its a good idea, to try?

~Gabriel~
For many years in Eugene, we've had an active Community Access cable channel. It offers not only opportunities to showcase your independent productions, but provides classes and hands-on instruction in shooting, editing and working in all aspects of broadcast TV. People of all ages and experience levels are welcome. You may have a similar organization in Vancouver and certainly there's one across the bridge in Portland. Some of the program content on community access is pretty hokey, but it gives people the chance to use equipment that would be out of their reach ordinarily. You might also check your local school district and see if there's any student broadcasting activities. High school students here, handle much of the technical work for a radio station. It isn't TV, but it is broadcasting and gives students experience that's directly applicable to other branches of the Media. There may be some evening classes in broadcasting and videomaking at the community colleges in your area. Some of these may be non-credit and relatively inexpensive to take, but could be a way to get started. Right now is when such classes start for the year, so you'd need to look into this right away.
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Old September 17th, 2006, 08:37 PM   #29
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Yes, these are great ideas. Thank you for the advice! We here in Vancouver also have a Community Access cable channel. Do have any clue as to where I could find out more about this? I would not be surprised if it is the same one.

Thanks again!
~Gabriel~

PS: Do you know if there is any video clubs in the portland area?
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Old September 17th, 2006, 09:13 PM   #30
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Never-mind. I found out that mine is called, FVTV (Fort Vancouver community television) (FVTV.org). The prices are out of my price range for now... Its $75 dollars a year for the access, and the price for courses are anywhere between 25-50 dollars. However, if they do allow me to use their equipment... It might be worth it. I'll let you guys know what happens!
Thanks for being so nice and useful everyone! You guys have really helped me out, a lot!

~Gabriel~
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