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Old December 13th, 2006, 09:28 AM   #1
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Hunting / Better Zoom / 35mm Adapter

I am going to start work on a hunting video with a friend. We both have the DVX100B. One complaint he has as a hunter is the zoom is not very good on the DVX compared to others. I was wondering about our options?

Here is what I was think...

1) We could buy the Century Precision Optics 1.6x Telephoto Converter Lens for Panasonic AG-DVX100A and AG-DVX100 with Lens Support Slider and Lens Shade (Zoom Through).

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation

or

2) Buy a 35mm adapter. I would be lending towards the Go35Pro.
http://www.go-35.com

Then buying some Nikon lens. Here are the lens that I am thinking of starting with:

1) Nikon Zoom Wide Angle-Telephoto AF Zoom Nikkor 28-80mm f/3.3-5.6G Autofocus Lens
Price : $ 94.95

or

a) Nikon Normal AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D Autofocus Lens
Price : $ 114.95

b) Nikon 50mm f/2.8N EL-Nikkor Lens for 35mm Film
Price : $ 159.95

and the

2) Nikon Zoom Normal-Telephoto 55-200mm f/4-5.6G ED AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor Autofocus Lens
Price : $ 169.95

Does anyone have any experience filming hunters or wildlife? And, have you run into the problem of not enough zoom?

Thanks,

Bryan
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Old December 15th, 2006, 12:36 AM   #2
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Bryan,

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but...

A 35mm adapter won't increase your zoom capability. It may reduce it. Generally the 35mm adapter is used for shallow depth of Field (DoF), not added zoom.

A 50mm lens projecting to a 35mm film plane = 50mm.

A 50mm lens projecting to a 1/3" (roughly 8mm) digital chip plane is magnified by 'X' times.

My (20x)108mm lens on the H1 is magnified by 7.2x, so really I've got a 780mm equivalent lens. This wasn't enough for me so I bought the Canon EF adapter, because I have a 300mm Canon lens. My total zoom reach is now 300 x 7.2 = 2160mm. The problem with a zoom of that size is that all camera movement is magnified as well.

The stock dvx focal length is equivalent to 325mm. If you used the 1.6X, you'd at least get 60% more zoom (around 520mm).
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Old December 15th, 2006, 05:07 AM   #3
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Most of what Ken said is true about the magnification of lenses such as the 108mm and 300mm lenses etc, but these lenses are not referred to as "zoom" lenses but are actually fixed prime telephoto lenses.

A zoom lens provides a zoom across several prime fixed lens fields of view, for example a 20-35mm (wide angle zoom), 50-135mm zoom (normal to medium tele zoom), 70-200mm zoom (telephoto zoom), 100-400mm (long telephoto zoom), 1200-1700mm (extreme super telephoto zoom).

Also note that the X multiply factor will be different for 4:3 and 16:9 formats.
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Last edited by Tony Davies-Patrick; December 15th, 2006 at 11:17 AM.
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Old December 15th, 2006, 09:30 AM   #4
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Thanks guys! Unfortunately, the Canon EF adapter will not work on the Panasonic AG-DVX100B. So, I was wondering if going the route of a 35mm adapter and using similar lens, as you would with the H1, if I could gain the same results...

I understand the 35mm adapter itself will not increase the zoom capacity, however if you bought a 55-200mm lens, that would?

I will be filming in 4:3.
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Old December 15th, 2006, 10:34 AM   #5
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I have seen some results of shooting with a 35mm film adapter, and long lens. The issue becomes portability.

1. Remember you are hanging a the adapter on a single thread of the end of your primary camera's lens.

2. Generally the idea of a 35 mm adapter is to throw an image on a ground glass that your camera in turn videos. The angle of view will be relatively close to what you get on a 35mm camera with the same lens, though to avoid vignetting, you will actually sometimes end up with a more telephoto effect.

3. With most adapters, to protect your camera's lens, you will like have to have some kind of rail or support, especially if you mount a long lens.

4. It is unavoidable that you will have some light loss.

5. With most 35mm adapters, you will be shooting in a lower range of Fstops, for various technical reasons. If you want deep depth of field, it will be difficult to obtain.

6. Consider the Brevis from Cinevate.com. Seems to be well designed.
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Old December 15th, 2006, 10:37 AM   #6
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Thanks Chris. Do you have any footage that I can see?
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Old December 15th, 2006, 02:27 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Lawler
Thanks guys! Unfortunately, the Canon EF adapter will not work on the Panasonic AG-DVX100B. So, I was wondering if going the route of a 35mm adapter and using similar lens, as you would with the H1, if I could gain the same results...

I understand the 35mm adapter itself will not increase the zoom capacity, however if you bought a 55-200mm lens, that would?

I will be filming in 4:3.
Bryan,

You should check the alternate imaging forum for 35mm adapter discussion. After my original reply I spent way more time than I had planned on, searching to see what the effect of the adapter was on focal length (zoom). The concensus appears that with the 35mm adapter, your focal length remains equal to it's original (ie. a 200mm lens remains a 200mm lens).

I realize the Canon adapter won't work for you. This is Canon's marketing advantage for their XL line (XL1, XL2 and H1), that is access to all Canon EF lens'. That's why a lot of nature/wildlife shooters use them. Check this forum (Per Johan, Dale Guthormenson, etc for high telephoto footage).

The DVX100 already has an equivalent zoom of 325mm at the telephoto end. If increased focal length is what you're after and you added a 35mm adapter and the Nikon 55-200mm, you would be reducing your telephoto capability from 325mm to 200mm (as well as spending more money and losing light etc,).

The only way to increase the focal length (zoom) on your cam is with the telephoto adapter (1.6x, 2x etc.). At least that is as far as I know. Maybe someone on the DVX forum has other ideas.

Remember to that increased focal length equals increased camera 'shake'. You will need to use a tripod for sure.
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Old December 15th, 2006, 02:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Diewert

The DVX100 already has an equivalent zoom of 325mm at the telephoto end. If increased focal length is what you're after and you added a 35mm adapter and the Nikon 55-200mm, you would be reducing your telephoto capability from 325mm to 200mm (as well as spending more money and losing light etc,).
Thanks for the information. I will check out the other forum. I am a little confused by your comment that the DVX100 has a 325mm already. The maxium zoom of the lens on the DVX is equal to 45mm.

I know that the Canon EF adapter is the selling point for Canon and other wildlife videographers, but my main filming is not hunting videos. This is something new we are trying and we are looking to way to achive the zoom or telephoto portion of the DVX to get closer to the animal being hunted.

Isn't the philosophy the same between using a 35mm adapter and using the Canon EF 35mm adapter? Or, am I missing something?

Bryan
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Old December 15th, 2006, 02:48 PM   #9
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Hey Bryan,

I don't have experience with the DVX, so I can't comment on the teleconverter; however, I have used a 35mm adapter on my Canon XL2. It was designed with a relay lens built in and flipped the image also. There was no need to use stock lens as a relay lens.

As mentioned, these 35mm adapters were created mainly to get that shallow depth of field so many people crave. Unless the adapter flips the image, you'll need to flip it in post. There is a certain amount of light loss as mentioned in a previous post. As Chris mentioned portability is an issue too, even though some of the adapters have gotten fairly small.

I do not have experience with any adapters except for the one designed for the Canon XL cameras, but I can relate to you without any reservations--I will never use a 35mm adapater to record wildlife footage in the field. The adapter introduces more problems than I would care to deal with out in the field. Plus, the extremely shallow dof was not desirable much of the time, and can be achieved somewhat using the long end of the XL lens. I know the DVX isn't 20x, but 13x??? or something like that.

There are many people who love the look one can get with the 35mm adapters, so you can check out a lot of sample footage in Alternative Image forum.
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Old December 15th, 2006, 02:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Lawler
Thanks for the information. I will check out the other forum. I am a little confused by your comment that the DVX100 has a 325mm already. The maxium zoom of the lens on the DVX is equal to 45mm.

I know that the Canon EF adapter is the selling point for Canon and other wildlife videographers, but my main filming is not hunting videos. This is something new we are trying and we are looking to way to achive the zoom or telephoto portion of the DVX to get closer to the animal being hunted.

Isn't the philosophy the same between using a 35mm adapter and using the Canon EF 35mm adapter? Or, am I missing something?

Bryan

Bryan,

Check the DVX lens 'equivalent' focal length. I went to a product review site to find the 325mm.

The Canon EF adapter is basically just a mounting bracket that allows the still photo lens to attach. It also provides limited electronic functions.

The 35mm adapter on the other hand is as Chris mentioned, a means to projected an image onto a ground glass lens which the camera then shoots, thus preserving the image. I'm butchering the description of how it works, but suffice to say, the adapters are really intended to allow shooters to maintain shallow depth of field (DoF). This is where only part of the shot is in focus, and the background (or foreground) is out of focus. It's purely to achieve a 'film' look. Video has a deep depth of field (most everything is in focus).
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Old December 15th, 2006, 02:56 PM   #11
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Brian,

Good comments. The DVX only has a 10x lens. Not that important until you are trying to do something with hunters away from what they are shooting at.

So, the Canon EF Adapter does't act as a 35mm adapter?

Bryan

***EDIT***
Ken's message came in while I was typing my response. Ok, thanks Ken for the definition on the Canon EF adaptor. That is the first time someone has told me that. So, really the best option would be to buy the Century 1.6x Telephoto Converter Lens. This would give us the ablity to zoom in.

Someone needs to come up with a way for all camera's to attach something like the Canon EF adapter to them. I guess then Canon wouldn't have the edge!

Thanks guys.
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Old December 15th, 2006, 03:02 PM   #12
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Bryan,

scroll down to camera lens. Then read 35mm equivalent.


http://www.amazon.com/PANASONIC-AG-D.../dp/B000075AEV
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Old December 15th, 2006, 03:10 PM   #13
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Thanks Ken
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Old December 15th, 2006, 03:10 PM   #14
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No, the canon adapter is strictly to allow you to mount a longer lens. Theoretically you could also mount a shorter lens, but with the increased magnification (approximately 7.2x), even a 12mm lens becomes an 86mm lens.

People complain that the 20x stock canon lens isn't wide enough, but it's 5.4mm at the wide end. But you have to multiply that by 7.2 = 39mm.

That's why Canon has a 3x lens and a new hidef 6x ($3,000). I think the new 6x has an equivalent length of 25mm at the wide end.
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Old December 15th, 2006, 03:22 PM   #15
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bryan,

For hunting videos the century 2x adapter will get you close enough for a hunting video. I have a 2x century and a 1.6 canon. you can't use the 1.6 but the century 2x does a reasonably good job and I would not buy any of the cheap ones!!!

As with all duplexs you will have a softening of the image when you get to the longer distances.

the reason I went with canon products was the lens quality and the 20x zoom capabilities.

Watch the classifieds here and you may be able to pick one up for your camers.

Otherwise, stalk you animals closer, not always so easy.
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