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Old November 28th, 2009, 05:16 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Steve Siegel View Post
Another question Marj,

Now the question is: Does the shape of each seed approximate a golden rectangle, and is that why they pack in Fibonacci sequences.
No; the shape of the unit has nothing to do with the Fibonacci packing. See above.

If you look closely at the shape and sizes of the florets on the sunflower they are different from the seeds. The seeds are all a uniform size unlike the developing florets. The seed have to fit somehow after they start to develop. The disc expands to accommodate them but the pattern remains the same and without gaps. (Each floret produces one seed if pollination is successful, so there are the same numbers of seeds as florets.)

I will send you some sites where research is being done via email.
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Old November 30th, 2009, 03:20 AM   #92
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Hi Mike

I have copied this quote over from the general thread to here.

Originally Posted by Mike Sims View Post
Marj- I enjoyed watching your video. I believe you intend to do more work on it and don’t consider it completed so I’d like to offer some suggestions in that vein. I’d like to hear a few words in the Introduction about the wider field of Biomathematics to give context to the geometry that follows; for example the predominance of math in such diverse fields as physiology, animal behaviour, and population dynamics. You did a good job of showing a diverse mix of organisms in the Introduction. By the time we get to the Conclusions, however, all we see are plants. I think it would be good to mix in a few animal clips again at that point. There are a couple of places where you lose focus, notably the general introduction to honeybees. The information is good (and very well done) but isn’t really germane to the subject. I think you can trim a bit here and gain time for the other topics. The voice over turned out very nice and I loved the Nautilus animation. All in all, a very pleasing general introduction to a fascinating subject.

I would seriously consider changing the title to avoid theological implications…

Mike thank you so much for taking the time to give such good feedback on my film. I must say I value everyone comments because it gives me essential feedback for my final film from various points of view. I really appreciate your input - coming from someone who obviously has a solid background in the field of biology and the natural world in general. Your comments reflect a number of issues I have had with creating this film.

Yes, my film is far from finished – in fact for me this is only the beginning. This is the rough cut of my film with bits missing.

I had to drop a number of stories for this submission - notably my intended exposition and conclusion, the echinoderms (I thought of you), the spirals in flowers other than composites, the sunflower story, formation of animal patterns, fractals, crystals, and cycles. It takes a long time to weave these sub-stories into the main story structure in such a way that they add value to it and don’t interrupt the general flow moving forward. Each has to be integrated with caution and consideration and I just did not have any time left to do this. (The fact that the end here is all about plants is simply because these things have been dropped. That will definitely change.)

However, having said that, the continual question on my mind is how much more can a general audience take in? How long will an audience sit through a film of this nature? I could very easily make what I consider a fascinating story of 90 minutes out of this because there is just so much material from which to choose, but can I stretch it to 90 minutes and still keep my audience through all those tea breaks? These are tough questions and decisions have to be made one way or the other.

This story doesn’t even scratch the surface of the depth of the mathematics found in nature - you yourself have noted some of the things that should rightfully be included. Some of the pertinent discoveries made by mathematicians and other researchers in the field of phyllotaxis (study of leaf arrangement) that are truly fascinating should also be included but simply won’t make it. The list goes on. However, my feeling is that my film should not be too much longer than this.

Apropos the introduction to the bee story - and even the frog story, for that matter – it may not be germane to the subject but I have included these details because for me they bring the story back into the wider context of real life for ordinary people like myself who are not particularly math orientated. My intention was to try and hold attention and breathe a bit of life and meaning into what could be just a boring math story for many. I will consider what you have said, however, if they are just an unnecessary distraction. I intend to rephrase the script around the honeybee to make it less matter-of-fact.

One thing I can’t wait to do now is get my hands on After Effects – I’ve been waiting very patiently for the opportunity to do my titles and introductory animations.

Once again, thanks Mike
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Old November 30th, 2009, 08:43 AM   #93
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First, did you not use after effects to do the graphics work on this project??? If not what did you use?

Critically speaking all I noticed was that on a couple explanations I thought the still image seemed a little long as you spoke.

The voice over was truly pleasent in tone, rythm, with simple to understand esxplanations.

You did a fine job keeping everything simple enough to keep most peoples interest for the duration.

With commercial breaks anyone should be able to take it all in!!

Personally I believe the title is perfect!!!!! It says it all and is open to anyones personal directions, theologically or otherwise. I showed it to a friend that is a minister and his statement was "Wow, and some think it was all by accident!" i now I want to show it to my athiest friend when he comes!!!

It takes great work to apeal to everyone!!!

I can't wait to see what graphic titles and such you develop for it!!!

What an inspiration, makes me want to climb harder on the talent ladder!!!
Dale W. Guthormsen
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Old December 2nd, 2009, 05:37 AM   #94
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My film did not get further than roughcut stage I'm afraid, but I am very relieved to have it at this stage now as the hard part - getting a story down - is now more or less sorted.

With your permission, I have added some info to my credits to make them more accurate.

Last edited by Marj Atkins; December 2nd, 2009 at 06:50 AM.
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Old December 2nd, 2009, 06:47 AM   #95
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Thanks for your feedback Dale - and for your compliments. Premier Pro, Corel Rave and 3DS Max were used for the animations.
The images that are a bit long are really placeholders for the moment. The floret animation at the end was shorter than my narration so I had to cut it and put in some still frames to lenghten it. Something we'll sort out later. Somehow the dissoves between them went missing so they are a bit abrupt.
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Old December 2nd, 2009, 07:47 AM   #96
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Marj- Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts about your project with me. I agree that 90 minutes is too long. Just less that an hour is about right. Iím hoping you may come to see this video as one in a series about the larger topic (with more than a year into it and counting Iím sure youíre not ready to contemplate that just yet). I can see a whole segment on crystals and another on conformations of proteins. Youíve done such a wonderful job with this video that I think the series would be major award material. I follow your reasoning about including the general information about bees. Good thinking. I like your title. Iím just trying to point out that I fear many people will find it overly controversial and that I hope you will consider that. Iím sure you already have. I also canít wait until you get your hands on After Effects! I have found the learning curve very steep, but you have a much better background in that area than me and Iím sure youíll soon be amazing us. I can heartily recommend both Adobeís Classroom in a Book for AE and the free online tutorials over at VideoCopilot. Critique-wise I have been harder on you than the others, and I hope you will realize that it is because your work here is my favorite. I really hope to see you succeed. Iím sure you will. You have emboldened me to, once my own skills have improved, perhaps take on a more serious topic myself. Thank-you. And yes, I really miss those echinodermsÖ!
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Old December 2nd, 2009, 09:02 AM   #97
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Thanks so much for your encouragement Mike. I must say I really appreciate feedback like that which you have given me as it gets me thinking about why I have done some things the way I have and thinking harder about better ways of doing things and I really like that. Some problems with my film are very obvious to me, others not so, and you have raised some good points. As a group we are a good mix of strengths and expertise in different areas and can bring insight into each other's work and that's how we learn from one another. So what I am saying is I welcome constructive criticism particularly as my film is not finished.

Once again - much appreciated.

P.S. Been meaning to ask you for ages what field of work are you in?
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