XL2 Field Monitor / Camera mount LCD at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > The View: Video Display Hardware and Software

The View: Video Display Hardware and Software
Video Monitors and Media Players for field or studio use (all display technologies).


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 18th, 2004, 03:24 AM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bethel, VT
Posts: 824
Onboard Monitor for XL2

My hi-res 13" studio monitor isn't 16:9 switchable, and while my 8045Q is, and XL2 footage looks gorgeous on it, it's not big enough for day to day. So, I want to get a new NTSC widescreen monitor for the XL2 footage and was wondering about this unit. It's a Philips 17" LCD 16:9 progressive scan TV with 1280 x 768 resolution, component, composite and S-video ins.

Any thoughts on how the image might compare to say a PVM or JVC hi-res CRT.
Jim Giberti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18th, 2004, 08:33 AM   #2
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mays Landing, NJ
Posts: 11,543
You don't provide any model number for the Phillips. It sounds like the specs match the Sony SDM-V72W widescreen monitor that I use however http://displaysbysony.com/display/mo...p?pModelId=557 which is evidently discontinued but probably still available. The Sony is just a monitor, and not a TV however, so there is no tuner built in.

I don't know if this would apply to the Phillips, but here are my impressions of the Sony. I use my monitor with a PDX-10 which also shoots native anamorphic widescreen like the XL-2. I like it a lot, however it is certainly not a studio monitor. For starters, it overscans and I'll bet that any of these consumer monitors will do that. When I first plugged the camera into it via s-video I wan not happy, it seemed to show a lot of noise and the image wasn't very flattering. But by going into the menus and turning the monitors sharpness all the way off there was a huge improvement. Consumer TV's, especially LCD's, generally default to way too much sharpness.

Since it isn't a real studio monitor you can only approximate calibration. I put color bars on it and tweak the controls as best I can. Of course it suffers from the same problem as all LCD's regarding the contrast shifting with your viewing angle. Where I found this monitor most useful was in editing video to be digitally projected. When we showed the video on a huge screen with a big Barco projector I felt it really looked pretty much the same as what I saw on the LCD during editing. We had a good Sony studio monitor in the theatre connected to the same feed as the projector, and I felt my LCD was much more faithful to the projected image than the studio monitor.

These days I use the monitor connected to my Sony RDR-GX7 DVD recorder which I feed via firewire from my Mac running FCP. The LCD screen is connected to the DVD recorder via component video and the image looks great, noticeably better than the s-video hookup from my camera. My PDX-10 doesn't shoot progressive scan, but I often use DVFilm Maker to create 30p. If I feed this video from FCP to my DVD recorder and set it for progressive scan the Sony widescreen monitor detects the 480p signal and it really looks nice.

I've seen several other 17" widescreen LCD monitors in stores like Best Buy and CompUSA. If possible, see if you can do some A/B tests to determine which you like better. I guess my only real disappointment is the overscan issue, but you pretty much have to expect that I suppose. And the other issue is that you can't really be sure about brightness and color judgements when using an LCD panel. But overall it's served me well and I'll probably continue using it for awhile until I want to spend much more money on something better.
Boyd Ostroff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18th, 2004, 03:39 PM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bethel, VT
Posts: 824
I think we're talking the same language here Boyd. I've got two studio monitors a great smpte-c 750 line hi-res 13" that unfortunately doesn't have switchable 16:9.

I'm wondering if the the fact that the Philips is progressive scan and decent resolution will make it a reasonable veiwing monitor for XL2 footage. I certainly know I can't do blue only calibration and do any critical color work on it.

I saw it on Circuit City's site and I might just take the XL2 down and see if I can plug it in and check the signal. FOr the record I use FCP HD and a Panasonic DV-1000 deck for NTSC output. I did away with the aAtrox card and converters when the new FCP offered real time NTSC support.

I'm just hoping (perhaps in vain) that I don't need to spend $2k next week for a decent widescreen NTSC studio monitor.
Jim Giberti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 13th, 2005, 09:48 PM   #4
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Perth WA Australia
Posts: 124
XL2 Monitor

I will be filming solo and need to be able to set the camera on a tripod, then stand in front to record myself giving a comentary.I need an extra screen to mount on the camera so I can see the framing. Is there a reasonably priced monitor available that will mount on the XL2, something about 4 or 5 inches.Also is it possible to turn the standard 2'' moniter/veiwfinder to face forward? I will be shooting PAL 16.9 wide screen.
Joe Barker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 13th, 2005, 10:35 PM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: california
Posts: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Barker
I will be filming solo and need to be able to set the camera on a tripod, then stand in front to record myself giving a comentary.I need an extra screen to mount on the camera so I can see the framing. Is there a reasonably priced monitor available that will mount on the XL2, something about 4 or 5 inches.Also is it possible to turn the standard 2'' moniter/veiwfinder to face forward? I will be shooting PAL 16.9 wide screen.
hello joe,

well, i started out using a 13" tv.....what do they go for now $ 50? now i have a 7" lcd monitor, $ 400

greetings
Karl Heiner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 13th, 2005, 11:29 PM   #6
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chapmanville, USA
Posts: 138
I am looking for a monitor aswell. I hate to make another thread for this.

I don't mean to intrude on your topic either, Joe. I am hoping that if I can find an answer for my question then maybe it will answer your question or at least help you out aswell.

I am a college student and I'm having to be VERY tight on money. I can't spend more then 400$ on a LCD monitor, and I would like to spend less then 300$ if I could.

People suggest that you should just buy the more expensive ones because they are better. For me, I have no choice. I cannot afford to put more then 400$ into a LCD monitor. I know there HAS to be a monitor that is DECENTLY good for color judgement, and has a high enough resolution to be worth the money I will pay for it.

I have has my eyes on this specific monitor:
http://www.xenarc.com/product/700v.html

Will that be worth my money? Pros? Cons? Compare it to other monitors in the 200-400$ price range? I have read through endless topics about this and most of them end up in people suggesting the higher priced monitors, and I just can't do that. I really can't even spend 400$ but this isn't a want anymore, it's a NEED.

Just for reference, I am using an XL2 and I need a monitor with both 16:9 and 4:3 switchable aspect ratios.

I have looked at the IKAN V7000 and people have said it's display isn't worth the money. The picture just looks too bad. I want the best of everything I can get in price range.

Thanks for your time!
Travis Maynard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 14th, 2005, 03:49 AM   #7
Trustee
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl.
Posts: 1,842
I know that you guys are talking about small ,on camera monitors, buy I just wanted to throw my two cents in. I picked up a used sony 8044q 9" monitor recently. I had a battery belt, so I'm using that when I want battery power.It's got that beautifull "sony' image, and is 4:3-16:9 switchable. with the porta brace case, you can mount it almost anywhere, and porp it up on an angle.
great piece of equipement.
Bruce yarock
Bruce S. Yarock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2005, 01:23 AM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Las Vegas, NV., Los Angeles, CA,
Posts: 220
i had an 8" sony fail on me a few weeks back and have been using a 7" lcd dvd player with an RCA input, made a 14" sun shade for it and mount it with industrial velcro. it is not color correct, it is not full resolution, it is not even remotely professional but weighs about 2 pounds and my director can hold it in his hands while we run a take and know whether he is getting everything he wants out of the shot and it is self-contained and lightweight, obviously it doesn't compare to the sony in quality but it is a whole lot faster to set up and it cost $180 and i don't feel any urgent need to get the sony repaired, i can accurately estimate the difference between the viewfinder and the shot at this point so i just come home at night and watch it on a 16X9 hdtv with progressive scan and reverse pulldown to make sure i did everything right,

hey, anything is better than waiting for dailies from a lab or watching a horrible fluttering videotap on a 35mm camera

on out of town gigs i can watch movies in the crappy hotel room when i can't sleep so that's a plus

-Jon
__________________
Jon Bickford, Trepany Films
San Pedro, CA
Trephine001@aol.com
Jon Bickford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2005, 06:18 AM   #9
Trustee
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl.
Posts: 1,842
Jon,
i'm in the market for a new tv that I can watch stuff I've shot in 16:9. Also ,I might want hd. What brand is yours, and what is the "reverse pulldown" issue?
Thanks
Bruce yarock
Bruce S. Yarock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2005, 09:50 PM   #10
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Perth WA Australia
Posts: 124
XL2 Monitor

Thanks Jon, that sounds likie a great option.
Joe Barker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 16th, 2005, 05:25 AM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Las Vegas, NV., Los Angeles, CA,
Posts: 220
I picked up a samsung hdtv, it's just a 26" but it looks killer. it's their newest 26, i don't remember what the model # was but it has a black border on the body around the screen and the older 26 was all silver casing. so look for the one with the black face and silver body. it has s-video and rca nputs on the side which is nice then component inputs, couple s videos an HDMI input, which apparently i can get a DVI-HDMI cable for and use it as a second computer monitor with my G4, so i will try it next time i have a big editing project. the way i hook up my camera right now is through a dvd recorder with a firewire input then a component output to the tv and it looks amazing!

i bought the tv for $584 dollars during a holiday sale at circuit city, i think the going rate is around $650-$700, the dvd recorder they gave me a deal on for $150 with the tv. all 24 months with 0 interest :) i will mention that i've only had the tv for about a month so i can't comment on reliability.

the 2:3 pulldown...

when you shoot film or video at 24fps and then play it on a tv it is being shown at 60i or 30p which means to keep the movie going at the proper speed they have to add frames, (the xl2 does this in 24p mode while recording onto the tape, it's done in a lab on film) so six frames a second are added to your video, if you picture 24 frames being counted like,
1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4
they add an extra frame between the 2 and the 3, usually it's a composite of frame 2 and frame 3, sometimes it's frame 2 doubled. the same thing is done for dvds or movies you see on cable.

so a reverse of that would be that the tv is recieving 24p footage at 30p and it deletes those extra frames as it goes, playing at an actual 24p, it does this for dvds too if you have a progressive scan dvd player. some companies call it "cinescan" or things like that but it's a reverse pulldown.

one more kind of related thing... when you sit in a movie theater watching a feature film that lasts 90 minutes you spend 45 of those minutes in complete dark. the movie is 24 frames per second but each one of those frames is only on screen for 1/48th of a second, then the projector's shutter closes and it advances to the next frame, taking 1/48th of a second. so the projector is literally flickering on and off 24 times a second. video is just always on, always displaying something so even 24p will never move quite like a strip of film being projected unless it is transferred to film, which i would love to see.


-Jon
__________________
Jon Bickford, Trepany Films
San Pedro, CA
Trephine001@aol.com
Jon Bickford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 16th, 2005, 05:48 AM   #12
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Maynard
People suggest that you should just buy the more expensive ones because they are better. For me, I have no choice. I cannot afford to put more then 400$ into a LCD monitor. I know there HAS to be a monitor that is DECENTLY good for color judgement, and has a high enough resolution to be worth the money I will pay for it.
I bought recently a 7" Panasonic TC-7WMS1 16:9 lcd monitor for I'm getting a crane built. Before buying the monitor I spent some time thinking of the same question as you, what is the difference between the cheap and expensive monitors.

First of all I noticed that many monitors have the same resolution, but the numbers given are misleading for many multiply the horizontal (or vertical) resolution by three because there are three colors r,g, and b. The Panasonic model is 480 x 234.

In general, I'm not sure whether the lcd monitor makes it easier to set the focus. This applies for the PAL XL2, the situation may be different for the NTSC XL2 because 234 is quiet close to one half of the NTSC resolution. Second, I definitely find the colors of the XL2 monitor more accurate than those of the Panasonic lcd monitor. Again, this applies only for the PAL, since in NTSC mode the lcd monitor has quite a lot more adjustments.

The price of the Panasonic is around 700$, and the image is not in my eyes that much better, if any better than those of the cheaper monitors. Though, the monitor may be more reliable than cheaper ones. Still, I suspect one does not really loose much, if anything, by buying a cheaper monitor or a portable DVD to which one can hook up a video camera.

Likely, in the future the small monitors will be much better in quality and also quite a lot cheaper than now. It's amazing how expensive the small LCD monitors are, if one compares them to the prices of computer monitors or lcd TVs --or even to the cheapest plasma TVs.
Lauri Kettunen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 16th, 2005, 06:08 AM   #13
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mays Landing, NJ
Posts: 11,543
Well if you're willing to accept the compromises of a cheap LCD monitor or DVD player, then why not go a step further and just use your laptop computer (assuming you have one). This is probably the cheapest route. On the Mac there's BTV pro which I find really useful. In addition to providing both full screen and windowed modes it can also record to hard drive, display various scopes, shoot time lapse, etc. It also shows the full video frame which none of those consumer monitors will do. Of course there are some compromises in color and resolution, but for $40 it's a great tool:

http://www.bensoftware.com/btvpro.html

On the PC of course there's DV Rack, but that costs more. There are probably less expensive shareware options that run under Windows also, but I have never looked into those.
Boyd Ostroff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 16th, 2005, 07:26 AM   #14
Trustee
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl.
Posts: 1,842
Jon,
Thanks for the info about the Samsung. I noticed on the circuit city page that it's not wide screen (doesn't support 16:9). Is that why you run the xl2 through the dvd recorder first? Do you know of any model that has 4:3 and 16:9 switchable (plus the other features that the samsung has)?
thanks
Bruce S. Yarock
Bruce S. Yarock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 16th, 2005, 07:58 AM   #15
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mays Landing, NJ
Posts: 11,543
I have a Samsung LTP227W widescreen 22" LCD panel with native 1280x720 resolution. This is a TV and not a computer monitor, and I really like the image. At several "big box" stores I looked at a lot of different screens in that size range and this one seemed the best. Of course it can do 4:3 as well by "pillarboxing" it using one of the aspect ratio options. It wasn't cheap, but prices have probably dropped since I got it. I use this screen for all my 16:9 DV (PDX-10, HVR-Z1) editing in FCP.

I also have a smaller 17" Sony 16:9 LCD model SDM-V72W with native 1280x768 pixel dimensions. This model has been discontinued, but has probably been replaced with something similar. It was marketed as a multimedia screen for PC's, games and video. It also has a pretty nice image which I think is comparable to the 17" LCD TV's. But here's something interesting about that screen; recently I got one of those big APC extended run laptop batteries that connects to your computer with a cable. It comes with a bunch of adaptor plugs, and one of them fits the connector from the power brick on the Sony monitor. Set the battery for 16 volts and it works like a charm. I haven't tried it on a shoot yet, so not sure how long it will run, but it's a simple, lightweight and relatively cheap way to power an external LCD panel. The battery is this one: http://www.apcc.com/resource/include...base_sku=UPB80
Boyd Ostroff is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > The View: Video Display Hardware and Software

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:06 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network