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The View: Video Display Hardware and Software
Video Monitors and Media Players for field or studio use (all display technologies).


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Old October 30th, 2002, 05:55 PM   #1
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Best View

Once I upgrade my Sony TRV 9 DV camcorder to VX2000 or PDX10 how do I best take full advantage of higher quality image by displaying it on high quality "TV" using best output mode? From reading I have been doing I understand using composite output to standard TV does not utilize full capability of captured image. Next step up would be S-VHS output to S-VHS equipped standard TV. Then get into areas foreign to me like component output (understand theory only) to projection TV's advertised as HDTV. I can understand where luminance, chrominance and all that plus number of lines scanned can all enter into component output and HDTV TV (I refer to ones costing about $1700 for 47 inch 16X9 display). On top of that interlace (standard NTSC output from camcorder) vs progressive scan capability these "HDTV" advertise such as 1080 p.

Now, component output sounds like way to go to get best picture from HDTV. But, I don't know of camcorder in price range of VX2000 with component output. However, in Videoguys website I see the Datavideo DAC-2 which seems to take DV input and convert to component output (price about $650).

So, questions I have (sorry for long note) are: (1) based on limited reading and experience, is my logic generally correct about displaying best quality picture once I have captured "best" quality video; and (2) anyone have experience with DAC-2 and would that be a good way to convert DV to component output to view higher quality image on component input equipped TV??(actually I have a cheap JVC "regular" TV with component input).

This is part of a lenses (start with high quality lense to get good image onto CCD's) to output --view on TV-- approach. Once you have the best DV camcorder you can afford --VX2000, GL2 price point-- how do you take full advantage of quality of image when you view on "TV?" Mostly to be sure I don't miss out on a feature -- like "true 16X9 on PDX10-- in a camcorder that I would later wish I had when displaying on "TV."
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Old October 30th, 2002, 06:00 PM   #2
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Is this for general viewing or for editing work?
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Old October 30th, 2002, 06:47 PM   #3
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You are correct in most of your reasoning. Component output generally provides the best quality signal for input into a monitor. However, I would not choose the least expensive FireWire to component convertor sight unseen. These type of components (devices) almost always need auditioning. This is very subjective work. Have you ever walked into a person home and wanted to adjust the color, saturation, contrast, black level etc. on their TV set? Same kinda thing.

Viewing distance also plays a major role in evaluating monitors and display devices. In most cases people get way too close and are disappointed by the apparent lack of sharpness. Maintain a proper and consistent distance when viewing your display devices.

Jeff
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Old October 30th, 2002, 08:09 PM   #4
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Just Shoot

Adrian, Viewing would be just general viewing for my enjoyment and friends and family but making sure the viewing medium takes full advantage (within price of normal "consumer" quality equipment) of all the camcorder is capable of. I am just learning hobbyist and you have valid point on "just shoot"--how will I learn if I don't shoot-- but need to spend time aiming to come close to target when I spend the money on camcorder.
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Old October 30th, 2002, 08:21 PM   #5
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DV to Component Converter

Jeff, good advice. At my current level of hobbyist knowledge I was not aware of Firewire to Component converters so didn't know if they really could improve quality of output beyond S-Video out on camcorder or not. My phase one is buy a 3 CCD camcorder that will not be limiting factor in eventual phase two purchase of HDTV. If $650 is in the "least expensive" category of DV to component device I would really want to be sure a device like this would be worth the money and would really improve quality of what would be displayed on HDTV from camcorder.
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Old October 30th, 2002, 08:42 PM   #6
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Dennis for general viewing I would suggest just sticking to a standard TV with s-video. With the limited resolution of DV it probably won't look any better on a HTDV anyway. If you cab get a 16x9 Widescreen TV then that's a bonus but unless you are monitoring video for adjustment and calibration to NTSC safe colours then the expense of using component isnn't necessary. You'd be better off putting the money towards something more useful like filters, tripods, sound gear, lighting, the list goes on, and on, and on and...

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Old October 30th, 2002, 08:59 PM   #7
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S VHS

Thanks Adrian, just the sort of help I need. I am always looking for the "magic bullet" (in line with "just shoot") that for just a little more money will give a much bigger improvement in quality. But, I also use the limiting factor approach which in this case as you point out, DV resolution is limiting factor and won't benefit much beyond S-VHS level.
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Old October 30th, 2002, 10:15 PM   #8
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I dunno if this will help everybody here.

When dvd started back in 1997, i used to review them professionally for a few australian websites and magazines.

We did a big study of composite/s-video/rgb/component and the results wer very suprising.

S-video(s-vhs) techincally gives around a %30 better signal to the tv, which results visually into around a %100 improvement percieved.

Then the difference becomes compounded, component/rgb only showed a %5 increase in visual quality over s-vhs. This could be streched to %10 on a purely subjective opinion by some viewers.

Around %70 preferred s-video! Because it yields sharper images and more defined edges.

DVD is mastered in YUV which is what component video actually outputs, so you are watching a pure signal comming off the dvd, well not pure but the least tinkered with. You will not have any colour control on your tv, what is mastered is what you will get.

RGB is the european standard, has a slightly higher bandwidth, but offers no advantage as the source YUV is the limiting factor. RGB gives an ever so slightly different looking image, colours are a little bit more uniform, this is not a better image, just slightly differently displayed. (no this is not a PAL NTSC thing)

A lot of people feel component image is a little soft, but really it is just not giving super defined blacks (read: unrealistic tweeked digitally) that s-video inherently gives just from the nature of its output.

I personally use rgb because my tv can take it. But i have no problem with s-video in the slighest, and use it for my computer output, that %5 difference is so hardly noticable it is pointless.

Also i think that a firewire - component converter is most likely a waste of money, and i wouldn't really want something that is playing with the signal like that. I would rather a good breakout box that took a nice clean s-video signal, and stick to component on something native to it, like DVD.

kermie
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Old October 31st, 2002, 12:18 AM   #9
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Dennis,

If you've won the lottery in the last couple of hours you might want to purchase one of these Faroudja video processors.

http://www.lightav.com/home/faroudja/faroudja.html

No prices listed, but I know his line tripler and quadupler run around $25,000. Though I sure has something for a little less.

Jeff
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Old November 4th, 2002, 08:02 PM   #10
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Kermie and Jeff

Very interesting and helpful input and thank you Kermie. Jeff, I looked up the website and may buy a lottery ticket.
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