Are consumer plasma screen tv's good enough? at DVinfo.net

John Vincent · January 17th, 2006, 01:00 AM

Picking up a JVC100 in the next week or so (assumming I can find a competitive price from a reputable dealer).

SO - my question is this : Are consumer plasma tvs good enough to monitor/edit the footage on?

Last night I priced out a Hitachi 42" HD plasma for $2500 and a Zenith 50" HD Plasma for $3000 at a Ciruit City - they looked pretty dang good to me....
What do you think?

John

Dylan Pank · January 17th, 2006, 05:47 AM

General consensus seems top be, good enough to edit on for full screen play back, but not for critical color correction, grading, or effects work.

The problem with consumer TVs (with HD, SD, LCD, Plasma or CRT) is they're not precisely enough calibrated and will tend to cover certain flaws in unpredicatble ways, similar to using hi-fi or decktop computer speakers for audio.

It's not simply a case of making you footage look good, if your footage looks, bad, you'll want to know precisely HOW bad it looks, and a consumer set might not quite show you accurately enough.

How are you planning to connect your editing kit to the TV?

Werner Wesp · January 17th, 2006, 06:29 AM

Plasma's often have a resolution of just 852x480. Those obviously aren't good enough. You'll need an LCD with at least 1280x720 (probably 1366x768).

Steve Mullen · January 17th, 2006, 09:12 AM

You want a 1280x720 LCD or plasma so that scaling artifacts are not introduced.

Plasmas have better blacks, but the new LCDS are very close. (40" Sony XBR.)

The issue of CC not being possible is true only when the monitor -- ANY monitor -- is not calibrated.

It's really so simple. Have your monitor ISF calibrated for $350. Now you'll have a monitor with 6500K color temp from 10/20IRE to 90/100IRE. You'll also have a correct black and white level plus color saturation and hue. (The calibration should also eliminate "red push.")

If you do this -- you'll have an accurate enough image to do CC with reasonable confidence.

Remember that shot-to-shot consistency is more important than some absolute definition because the eye is very good at detecting changes.

Since your calibrated monitor will be many times more accrate more than any that your customers, including many TV stations, will have -- I really think the CC issue is overblown.

I have an Syntax 27-inch.

Jiri Bakala · January 17th, 2006, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

Have your monitor ISF calibrated for $350.

For once, I have to agree with you Steve...:-)
Now, where can you get it ISF calibrated and does it stay in during transport, temperature changes and being turned off?

Greg Corke · January 17th, 2006, 12:02 PM

Hi Guys,

Since we are on the subject, I've been meaning to ask this question for a while but never got round to it. Basically, I have a Sony 23" LCD TV which does accept a 720p signal through component. However, although it does produce the def I don't really like the images as it does not seem to handle motion particularly well. It is supposed to have a WEGA engine but the way this handles motion is not very impressive in my opinion. I would put it down to my own crappy footage were it not the case that the broadcast signal pretty much suffers the same way. Sorry if this seems like a bit of a hijack and I don't want to appear to be brand bashing I'm just curious as to whether this is a Sony thing or indicative of hi def tvs in general?

Thanks guys, Greg C.

Nate Weaver · January 17th, 2006, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

The issue of CC not being possible is true only when the monitor -- ANY monitor -- is not calibrated.

It's really so simple. Have your monitor ISF calibrated for $350.

So you're saying a consumer LCD/plasma set is going to have the necessary internal controls for this?

My gut says it won't.

Alex Horvath · January 17th, 2006, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

You want a 1280x720 LCD or plasma so that scaling artifacts are not introduced.

Exactly, and as soon as you want to watch SD_footage and scaling is involved, picture gets a drastic degradation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

...I have an Syntax 27-inch.

42" is a bit bigger than 27", despite of the needed minimum distance of 2m from viewer to screen a moving picture on such a big LCD or Plasma has more artifacts, noise and colorbanding than a stillpicture. CC is not really an issue because there are to much others... especially on the cheapies...

I own two 42" fujitsu plasmas (industrial & expensive) for costumer previews but prefer my CRT-monitors (P-Serie) more and more and more...

alex

Scott Hayes · January 17th, 2006, 04:14 PM

I just bought a Toshiba 26" hd crt for this. got it for under $500
from Crutchfield, free shipping!

John Vincent · January 18th, 2006, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Bakala

For once, I have to agree with you Steve...:-)
Now, where can you get it ISF calibrated and does it stay in during transport, temperature changes and being turned off?

Hey guys - thanks 4 all the imput!

I had the same questions as Jiri above - and one more:

What the heck is an ISF calibration?

The set I was looking at is a Zenith 50" HD plasama w/ 720p - and through some bargaining I got the guy to give it to me out the door for $2600.

I think this is a pretty good price... Am I nuts for wanting to do this? I have no other monitor to speak of (othe than your basic SD tv set).

Thanks again,
John

Werner Wesp · January 18th, 2006, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

Since your calibrated monitor will be many times more accrate more than any that your customers, including many TV stations, will have -- I really think the CC issue is overblown.

Indeed. Sometimes I even wonder why the quality has to be high for airing. an incredible percent of watchers at home won't even notice the fact that their aspect ratio isn't set properly :-)

It's just for ourselves, I guess...

John Mitchell · January 25th, 2006, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Horvath

Exactly, and as soon as you want to watch SD_footage and scaling is involved, picture gets a drastic degradation.

I own two 42" fujitsu plasmas (industrial & expensive) for costumer previews but prefer my CRT-monitors (P-Serie) more and more and more...

alex

Use an external scaler - the results will blow you away. I us a DVDO iScan which is by no means the highest quality scaler on the market but it does na excellent job

January 17th, 2006, 01:00 AM	#1
John Vincent Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,065	Are consumer plasma screen tv's good enough? Picking up a JVC100 in the next week or so (assumming I can find a competitive price from a reputable dealer). SO - my question is this : Are consumer plasma tvs good enough to monitor/edit the footage on? Last night I priced out a Hitachi 42" HD plasma for $2500 and a Zenith 50" HD Plasma for $3000 at a Ciruit City - they looked pretty dang good to me.... What do you think? John

January 17th, 2006, 09:12 AM	#4
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	You want a 1280x720 LCD or plasma so that scaling artifacts are not introduced. Plasmas have better blacks, but the new LCDS are very close. (40" Sony XBR.) The issue of CC not being possible is true only when the monitor -- ANY monitor -- is not calibrated. It's really so simple. Have your monitor ISF calibrated for $350. Now you'll have a monitor with 6500K color temp from 10/20IRE to 90/100IRE. You'll also have a correct black and white level plus color saturation and hue. (The calibration should also eliminate "red push.") If you do this -- you'll have an accurate enough image to do CC with reasonable confidence. Remember that shot-to-shot consistency is more important than some absolute definition because the eye is very good at detecting changes. Since your calibrated monitor will be many times more accrate more than any that your customers, including many TV stations, will have -- I really think the CC issue is overblown. I have an Syntax 27-inch. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

January 17th, 2006, 12:02 PM	#6
Greg Corke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 245	curious Hi Guys, Since we are on the subject, I've been meaning to ask this question for a while but never got round to it. Basically, I have a Sony 23" LCD TV which does accept a 720p signal through component. However, although it does produce the def I don't really like the images as it does not seem to handle motion particularly well. It is supposed to have a WEGA engine but the way this handles motion is not very impressive in my opinion. I would put it down to my own crappy footage were it not the case that the broadcast signal pretty much suffers the same way. Sorry if this seems like a bit of a hijack and I don't want to appear to be brand bashing I'm just curious as to whether this is a Sony thing or indicative of hi def tvs in general? Thanks guys, Greg C.

January 17th, 2006, 05:47 AM	#2
Dylan Pank Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Portsmouth, UK Posts: 611	General consensus seems top be, good enough to edit on for full screen play back, but not for critical color correction, grading, or effects work. The problem with consumer TVs (with HD, SD, LCD, Plasma or CRT) is they're not precisely enough calibrated and will tend to cover certain flaws in unpredicatble ways, similar to using hi-fi or decktop computer speakers for audio. It's not simply a case of making you footage look good, if your footage looks, bad, you'll want to know precisely HOW bad it looks, and a consumer set might not quite show you accurately enough. How are you planning to connect your editing kit to the TV?

January 17th, 2006, 06:29 AM	#3
Werner Wesp Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 497	Plasma's often have a resolution of just 852x480. Those obviously aren't good enough. You'll need an LCD with at least 1280x720 (probably 1366x768).

January 17th, 2006, 04:14 PM	#9
Scott Hayes Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 692	I just bought a Toshiba 26" hd crt for this. got it for under $500 from Crutchfield, free shipping!