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Old December 3rd, 2008, 09:31 PM   #1
New wedding video for review
David Sager David Sager is offline December 3rd, 2008, 09:31 PM

I humbly come to you all with one of my newly edited wedding videos for your guys review. You can be brutally honest. Seriously.

Umm... be gentle :)

The wedding of Alana and Torrey Kaddatz on Vimeo

Cheers,

David Sager

David Sager
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Old December 4th, 2008, 08:54 AM   #2
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Brutal honesty: Just too much tilted/shaky camerawork. Looks like you were in the back of the church trying to hold the camera on the action in the front without the use of a tripod.

I liked your work at the reception much better than at the ceremony. Still too much camera movement for my taste.
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Old December 4th, 2008, 12:31 PM   #3
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I have to agree with Scott...
I don't mind mildly shakey footage, but there was way too much shake going on in most of the beginning.

Which is a shame, because you had some real nice ideas for shots and composition going on there. As I just said your composition and pacing of the edit was nice. It's just the clean execution that was missing.

Your reception footage color was great and vibrant. The only real problem I was, besides the shakiness, was few of the shots weren't framed well. The overhead shot at 14:23, you only had a corner of the brides dress. I would have cut this out and gone from the closeup shot of the faces to the low angle shot of them dancing. And I would also lose or replace the low angle shot on the balcony at 00:57, as again there was too little of them and only a corner of her dress.

And one more thing, was this clip interlaced and not deinterlaced, as some of the slow motion clips were slowed down so much that they seemed to be strobing.

All in all as I said it was a very well composed clip with very nice composition and some nice color work. But you have to work on your handheld camera work some more or use a monopod or some sort of support device.
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Old December 4th, 2008, 03:58 PM   #4
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Ya... I have for sure decided that I need to invest in a glide-cam of some sorts. I use to shoot on a Canon XL1S and recently converted to Hi-Def with the XH-A1 and am realizing that I miss the shoulder mount of the XL1S. I was so pissed at myself for some of the camera shakes. Totally unacceptable.

Any suggestions on a cheaper "non-intrusive" glide-cam? Something smaller would be best.

As far as the ceremony footage is concerned... last minute I was told that I would have to stay in one spot from the very back of the church for the entire ceremony. Not only that, but the wedding coordinator was staring me down the whole time making sure that I didn't move. So stressful. Despite a lot of the footage being shaky and similar, I am satisfied with what I was able to pull out of what was a bad experience. Still though, should of had a monopod :)
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Old December 4th, 2008, 04:12 PM   #5
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re

hey man, well i dont know as much as any of the guys on here, im a totally new to all this but im hoping to get a merlin steadicam for christmas, looks totally unintrusive which is a key to the way i shoot and with great results, the reviews are top notch, pretty expensive but worth it for that quality

i cant wait to get one.
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Old December 4th, 2008, 05:45 PM   #6
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David get the CB15
on ebay

it somewhat makes your xha1 feel like the xlh1
it balances out the weight so your hand doesnt hurt after a while.

but this is why i never shoot weddings.
i would hate to explain to them about the shaking in the video.
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Old December 4th, 2008, 11:34 PM   #7
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Dynamic Motion Video Camera Stabilizer Shoulder Support
This is it. It's a great shoulder mount. I use it to shoot TV sports. I would also recommend checking out the VonLankens moving camera techniques video. I could kindof dig it alittle in the beginning, but it didn't look intentional after a while of it. Good luck. Practice makes perfect...
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Old December 5th, 2008, 08:01 AM   #8
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Ok, since others here are posting camera supports, I figure that I would post my support of choice.

It's the DvMultiRig DV MultiRig, which I have posted about extensively on this and other forums.

It's not a Glidecam, but you can get some rather nice walking camera shots with a,little practice. What it is though is the most versatile camera support that is on the market.

You can shoot in Fig Rig (handles up), Hand held (handles down), shoulder support, low profile, tripod mounted, either with 2 section pod support (highly recommended) or without.

I can get EXTREMELY steady hand held shots in any configuration all day long with no body fatigue, well except for the feet. I prefer to shoot in shoulder support mode with the back arm loose (not tightened) and pod supported with the left grip pulled inwards. This enables me to boom, dutch etc. and the rear arm simply moves up or down accordingly, and since the left grip is turned inwards I am able to rest my left forearm against it and operate my cameras manual controls on the lens barrel.

The unit is extremely lightweight but well built and is desired you can leave the unit attached to your camera, as the DvMulti Rig simply folds up to either be placed back in your camera bag by itself or attached to the camera after shooting.
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Old December 5th, 2008, 09:42 AM   #9
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David,
point is, find something that works for you... good luck.
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Old December 6th, 2008, 01:01 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sager View Post
Ya... I have for sure decided that I need to invest in a glide-cam of some sorts. I use to shoot on a Canon XL1S and recently converted to Hi-Def with the XH-A1 and am realizing that I miss the shoulder mount of the XL1S. I was so pissed at myself for some of the camera shakes. Totally unacceptable.

Any suggestions on a cheaper "non-intrusive" glide-cam? Something smaller would be best.

As far as the ceremony footage is concerned... last minute I was told that I would have to stay in one spot from the very back of the church for the entire ceremony. Not only that, but the wedding coordinator was staring me down the whole time making sure that I didn't move. So stressful. Despite a lot of the footage being shaky and similar, I am satisfied with what I was able to pull out of what was a bad experience. Still though, should of had a monopod :)
If you want stability, but an unobtrusive way to do it, may I suggest the MultiRig Pro? It will keep the camera steady and provide mounting points for UHF receiver, light, shotgun, mixer, spare drink holder, and ... (ok may e not the spare drink holder).

But it does do a whole lot for you. Don't expect to get silky smooth walking shots with it, but when you need to fit in a crowded area with your cam but you don't want the footage to screen "Hi I'm hand holding a big camera.... look at it shake!".... then it is exactly what you need.
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Old December 6th, 2008, 01:04 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Oliver View Post
hey man, well i dont know as much as any of the guys on here, im a totally new to all this but im hoping to get a merlin steadicam for christmas, looks totally unintrusive which is a key to the way i shoot and with great results, the reviews are top notch, pretty expensive but worth it for that quality

i cant wait to get one.
The merlin is good for set up shots and providing motion. I have a Glidecam 4000 and love what it does. But you cannot use it for more than a few seconds at a time. For those impromptu toasts at the reception, you cannot hold the glidecam / merlin and adjust the zoom / f-stop, etc while keep the picture smooth. Impossible. But you can with a MultiRigPro. I can take my hands off the unit and adjust the fstop on my GL2 and the camera barely moves (well I could until I tweaked the spring and bent it...need to get a replacement).
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Old December 14th, 2008, 07:38 PM   #12
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So... anybody else's thought on the video? This thread kind of turned more about steady cams than the actual video :)

Let me know what you guys think.

Thanks!

David
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Old December 14th, 2008, 10:48 PM   #13
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I won't go into much detail about the camera motion; suffice to say that less is better until you've got a stabilizer. I think you've got some good, creative shots in there...but the editing could be tightened up quite a bit (if this is to be highlights). If its a shortform, you really need some audio in there to carry the story along. In general, a well placed sound clip from the vows, prep, toast, or other moving segment would add life to this collection of 'music-videos'.
Mood wise, it really jumps around from slow, to upbeat, to slow again...not really much of an arc. Shortening the songs by 1/2 and progressing in tempo might be a better bet.
Overused dutch angles and film/burn effects tend to distract from the shot, rather than add to it (but this is all subjective opinion, so discount as you wish). Also, If you're going to be doing lots of slow-mo, then shooting 60i would give you less choppy results. There is too much strobe action happening.
Finally, watch the skin tones, they tend to be uneven. Its one thing to colorize your footage, but when you are in the ceremony...the 'reality segments', the skin tones should be pleasing and accurate.
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Old December 15th, 2008, 02:13 AM   #14
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It was painfully obvious you were restricted to the rear of the church... Makes it hard to get decent footage if you're stuck back there for the processional. I'd have diplomatically told the co-ordinator that I was there to document the event for the couple, and would stay out of the way, but would need some leeway - this is a good reason to attend the rehearsal, so no last minute surprises. Also a good reason for a second small unmanned cam somewhere up front (hidden if necessary!)

I guess I'd suggest some slightly more upbeat music - really dragged for me, which doesn't help the overall video... it's a wedding, music frankly sounded more funerial (sorry if that was a bit brutal, but if you're asking someone to watch nearly 20 minutes, you need to make the soundtrack move somewhere, and preferably not in minor keys). Honestly, cut about 1/3, put some upbeat music to it, and I think you'd have a better end product.

Definitely some color correction issues, but that's always a bugger. I hate color correction <wink>.

I think the previous commentary on "shaky cam" is spot on, and really hurt the footage - looked to me like you were struggling with keeping the camera framed well, had a lot of "artistic" angles and framings that just didn't really work - shots with cut off heads and other quirky bits again detract from the total package. Some of the angled pans actually were borderline nauseating...

I could tell you were struggling to work with footage you weren't happy with - I usually cheat and use slo-mo or creative cutting to overcome that if possible (plus having a second or third angle cutaway usually saves my bacon!).


You've already got some good suggestions on stabilization. Weddings are a royal pain in the rear because of the various multiple configurations of camera support that are "most appropriate" all within a short period of time on a "one shot, no retakes" shoot! You can't afford to get too fancy unless you plan out shots in advance and have a multicam situation or a crew...

I haven't owned the DV Rig, but I've cobbled up something similar on my own, and it's about as good as you can get for combination stability/mobility. A Tiffen Steady Stick is the "poor man's" version... and not bad for the price, if your budget is sub $100.

Since you're used to the XL, you may be fine with just a shoulder support as well.

Unless you're a wiz with the monopod, it's tough to stabilize enough - I've not been able to pull it off, although I'm experimenting with a Bogen automatic attached to a shoulder support... I think this may be good for a "rough terrain" outdoor shoot!

The problem with a steadicam is that you've got a learning curve, it's great for moving, but not so hot if you have to sit in one spot for any length of time - you'd be surprised how much your body wobbles about when you're supposedly just standing there! And there's the issue of needing a full on vest, otherwise unless you eat more spinach than Popeye, that rig gets heavy FAST.

BTW, I did like the "old video cam" effects in the middle, but they felt a bit out of place with the rest. I'm almost thinking that you may want to back off from the project a bit and see if you can find a "vision" - I'm feeling your pain of the difficult shoot in the edit, so I'm thinking you're stuggling trying to find something which will help you get the magic back? I do think it's there, but not so much in this edit.
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