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Old March 14th, 2009, 12:47 PM  
One of our Short Wedding Films - Warning 45 min.
Gino Mancusa Gino Mancusa is offline March 14th, 2009, 12:47 PM

Hello Everyone,

I am planning on putting a series of our Short Wedding features up on Vimeo. I've seen many, many trailers, demos, recap edits but I don't think anyone has ever posted an entire Short Form Wedding. Many of these trailers are absolutely breathtaking. I've made the decision that we will start making trailers of our work as well as it seems to heighten the visual impact for clients that may only get a chance at a brief glimpse our work and if that happens at a lull then they don't get the true picture of the short form. Clients that have sat thru an entire short however want nothing else but same for their wedding. Thats why I want to also post entire Shorts as well. We take the candid approach to filming a wedding and film a ton of stuff without trying to interfere with anything. I hope to introduce perhaps more staged sequences as we grow. I've actually never seen anyone else's short form video so this is our own perspective. We hope that you will like what we do.

Thank you

GMan

Angele & Mike - A Wedding Short Film on Vimeo

Gino Mancusa
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Old March 16th, 2009, 01:28 PM   #16
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Hi Gino,

With an answer like that you will be up for president next,lol!!!

I have to agree again. So many concentrate on the tecnical aspect of a shoot that they forget what it is all about. Emotion gets thrown out of the window and everyone is copying everyone else.

I come from the viewpoint like you. Emotional content with strorytelling is king. Technical aspects can be learnt but their is a greater skill in captivating the audience and engaging them with emotion.

Spot on I say.

Cheers.
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Old March 16th, 2009, 02:10 PM   #17
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Thank you for posting this video Gino. As a newcomer, I learned a lot. Please post more in the future.
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Old March 16th, 2009, 09:27 PM   #18
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Just for the record .. I posted one of our full shorts (about 20 minutes long) about a year and a half ago. I haven't posted one since because I got very little feedback on it. I think many on here expected something boring and just didn't make the effort to watch it.

Regardless, it looks like you're getting a good discussion out of yours. I promise I'll check it out sometime in the next few days. I'm completely swamped at the moment.
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Old March 17th, 2009, 12:27 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Cossel View Post
Just for the record .. I posted one of our full shorts (about 20 minutes long) about a year and a half ago. I haven't posted one since because I got very little feedback on it. I think many on here expected something boring and just didn't make the effort to watch it.
I was not frequenting this area of the forum 1 1/2 years ago, but I believe that I saw this video about 2 months ago. With regards to storytelling, it was one of the best wedding videos that I've seen. If its the one that I'm thinking of, its a tiny little video on your site and ends with a kiss in the elevator. Again, that one was an inspiration to me.

I would like to see more of your full videos.
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Old March 17th, 2009, 05:52 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by John De Rienzo View Post
Hi Gino,

With an answer like that you will be up for president next,lol!!!

I have to agree again. So many concentrate on the tecnical aspect of a shoot that they forget what it is all about. Emotion gets thrown out of the window and everyone is copying everyone else.

I come from the viewpoint like you. Emotional content with strorytelling is king. Technical aspects can be learnt but their is a greater skill in captivating the audience and engaging them with emotion.

Spot on I say.

Cheers.
Thanks Again John, your vote of confidence is greatly appreciated. I heartily agree with your comments. Editing comes from the heart, its an artistic expression not a technical merit badge and thats why it commands such great respect in films. There are companies here that can do both very well, but when it comes to driving their features, they place emotional impact above a perceived technical faux-pas. We are still trying very hard to get there. For now I will let an emotional edit guide us as it provides our clients a greater service.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Alexander View Post
Thank you for posting this video Gino. As a newcomer, I learned a lot. Please post more in the future.
Thanks Tom, I will do that. I appreciate your kindness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Cossel View Post
Just for the record .. I posted one of our full shorts (about 20 minutes long) about a year and a half ago. I haven't posted one since because I got very little feedback on it. I think many on here expected something boring and just didn't make the effort to watch it.

Regardless, it looks like you're getting a good discussion out of yours. I promise I'll check it out sometime in the next few days. I'm completely swamped at the moment.
Travis,

I should have listed DreamBig Productions up there with Mayad and Still Motion. I've admired your work for years and I appreciate your reply. I do hope you get the chance to review it, your comments would mean a great deal to us, but please be gentle. I would very much like to see your short. Is it still available?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Alexander View Post
I was not frequenting this area of the forum 1 1/2 years ago, but I believe that I saw this video about 2 months ago. With regards to storytelling, it was one of the best wedding videos that I've seen. If its the one that I'm thinking of, its a tiny little video on your site and ends with a kiss in the elevator. Again, that one was an inspiration to me.

I would like to see more of your full videos.
I definitely second that!


Thanks for all your kind replies. I'm sorry about getting too negative back there, I really don't like doing that. This site is about engaging in real and helpful criticism and support and I would rather it remain on that level.

Best Regards

GMan
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Old March 17th, 2009, 12:41 PM   #21
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Gino, I watched your short last night. I thought it was well put together and will be entertaining for the couple. I'm not really sure what kind of critique you're looking for, since you asked for me to be gentle .. but here goes ...

- work on getting your shots more steady .. try tucking the camera against your hip while shooting, or pull your arms against your body

- ALWAYS clean your lenses before the shoot, and keep an eye on them during the day .. you had one shot outside the church where you panned up to the sun and it looked really bad because of all the dirt and dust on the lens

- work on getting your color a bit more consistent between shots .. I'm not talking about advanced color grading, just make sure that the color temperature is more similar from one shot to the next .. sometimes it was really good, but sometimes there were noticeable differences in color temp

- don't be afraid to cut shots if they don't really add anything to the story .. this area is very subjective, but I honestly think you could have shortened that 45-minute short to 30 minutes without losing the story .. again, this is all subjective and I have my own style and my own ideas and concepts about "story" .. so if you try it and it doesn't work, don't force it

Just to be clear, I think you did a good job with the short, and these are simply suggestions for improving your next one. After all, most of us are looking to improve what we do, right?
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Old March 17th, 2009, 12:43 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Alexander View Post
I was not frequenting this area of the forum 1 1/2 years ago, but I believe that I saw this video about 2 months ago. With regards to storytelling, it was one of the best wedding videos that I've seen. If its the one that I'm thinking of, its a tiny little video on your site and ends with a kiss in the elevator. Again, that one was an inspiration to me.

I would like to see more of your full videos.
That's the one. It's not online anymore. It was up on my old website. I have a new website with larger videos now. d;-)

I may or may not post another short. It takes significant time to do that and my time is at a premium right now. But if things slow down a bit I'll be sure and post another one. I'd love to see some shorts from others as well.
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Old March 19th, 2009, 08:22 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Cossel View Post
Gino, I watched your short last night. I thought it was well put together and will be entertaining for the couple. I'm not really sure what kind of critique you're looking for, since you asked for me to be gentle .. but here goes ...

- work on getting your shots more steady .. try tucking the camera against your hip while shooting, or pull your arms against your body

- ALWAYS clean your lenses before the shoot, and keep an eye on them during the day .. you had one shot outside the church where you panned up to the sun and it looked really bad because of all the dirt and dust on the lens

- work on getting your color a bit more consistent between shots .. I'm not talking about advanced color grading, just make sure that the color temperature is more similar from one shot to the next .. sometimes it was really good, but sometimes there were noticeable differences in color temp

- don't be afraid to cut shots if they don't really add anything to the story .. this area is very subjective, but I honestly think you could have shortened that 45-minute short to 30 minutes without losing the story .. again, this is all subjective and I have my own style and my own ideas and concepts about "story" .. so if you try it and it doesn't work, don't force it

Just to be clear, I think you did a good job with the short, and these are simply suggestions for improving your next one. After all, most of us are looking to improve what we do, right?
Travis,

Thanks very much for your review it was appreciated. You have a very majestic shooting style, high quality, smooth flowing and very appealing and I do admire your work very much.

First off, lens cleaning, I agree, its on the checklist we perform the day before the shoot and I'm pretty sure it was done. I asked my camera man about it and I think we found that it must have picked up some pollen deposits while he was shooting thru some brush. No excuse but we do have to keep a better vigil on things.

Hand held shots, to me are acceptable. In the wedding industry they definitely seem to be a sensitive issue. If done as part of a creative effort they are perfectly fine. I really liked our cameraman's shots as the bride and groom exited the church. The slight hand held movement worked extremely well as I tried to create a surreal moment. I was planning to post two short excerpts of two separate weddings where we consciously introduced strong hand held movement to enhance Andrew Kramer's twitch effects. I'm kinda debating whether I should show them now.

Some films we do are anywhere from 20 minutes to 45 minutes long. The length is dictated more from our sincere effort to providing the couple and family a more representative experience. The trick is to hold their attention for the time period. As long as the piece holds up I see no reason to cut it down any further.

We are still experimenting so I probably push coloring grading to much here to try to create some surreal moment and there so its easy to understand why you commented on its affect on color temperature and you are correct. Please understand we do go thru each clip, one by one to create a consistent white balance before we try to overlay any color grading. Here is the the color balanced piece before any grading, glow, film gamma or diffusers are applied or before blowing out whites for creative reasons. Aside from my cameraman failing to change the WB preset when he was filming inside the grooms house (and I chose not to attempt to rebalance the over cool color temperature) I believe most of it is acceptably consistent.

http://www.vimeo.com/3443335

There are many subtle moments in the piece especially the marriage (excuse the pun) between the music score and film thats used to build emotion that no one has commented on or perhaps picked up on. Its not fair for me to expect anyone here to sit through a 45 minute piece that they have no vested interest in and ask them to explore those avenues, the client will do that anyway. All that anyone here can ask is sometimes its more important to look to the bigger picture.

We do appreciate all the great innovators here and we strive to learn from them without trying to copy (to much anyway) and still try to maintain our own individual ideals. We do still need to tighten up certain things and improve other things and we are confident we will improve on the more technical aspects of wedding films to help tell the emotional story.

Thank you to everyone for your contributions and your time and understanding.

Best Regards

Gino Mancusa
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Old March 21st, 2009, 01:39 AM   #24
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I can understand completely about what you said on the whole 45min feels like 25min to the couple. For me, I haven't seen my old family VHS tapes in a very long time. Most of them I only seen once when I was real young. They were my parents and my older sisters taping events. I only did a couple of times because I was too busy running around at 5 years old. Anyways, I took a look at those videos and it brings back so many wonderful memories that I had almost forgotten. All the little detail means so much to me. Great job on covering the event. Even though there were some moments that others have mentioned that could of improved, you did a great job having a lot of angles. (bad for you editing all of it though. lol) The only thing I saw that stuck out in front of me is some of your shots would just come in and go out for about 20 or 30 frames worth. If there would be any way you could stretch that out and fade the clips together... that might keep the flow going. Anyways, thanks for putting this up here as it helps me know that using that many angles are worth it. :O)
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Old March 22nd, 2009, 03:07 AM   #25
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Hi Gino overall I enjoyed it. This is a personal taste but I'm not a huge fan of the constant vignetting/color grading. I prefer more subtle enhancing of the image. However, the section when the couple came out of the church was lovely. What frame rate were you shooting?
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Old March 22nd, 2009, 07:04 AM   #26
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I can understand completely about what you said on the whole 45min feels like 25min to the couple. For me, I haven't seen my old family VHS tapes in a very long time. Most of them I only seen once when I was real young. They were my parents and my older sisters taping events. I only did a couple of times because I was too busy running around at 5 years old. Anyways, I took a look at those videos and it brings back so many wonderful memories that I had almost forgotten. All the little detail means so much to me. Great job on covering the event. Even though there were some moments that others have mentioned that could of improved, you did a great job having a lot of angles. (bad for you editing all of it though. lol) The only thing I saw that stuck out in front of me is some of your shots would just come in and go out for about 20 or 30 frames worth. If there would be any way you could stretch that out and fade the clips together... that might keep the flow going. Anyways, thanks for putting this up here as it helps me know that using that many angles are worth it. :O)
Hello Rick,

Thanks very much for your reply, its funny you mention some of the very very short clips. There's a term editors use, I read it in the "The DV Rebel's Guide" by Stu Maschwitz, an excellent reference guide btw, called killing your babies. Babies refers to clips you can't bear to part with but sometimes have too for the sake of the film. I don't think I'm truly there yet. I ended up keeping some clips in there that I should have probably removed and ended up having to shorten them to keep the story's pace with the music. Good call, I agree with you. We love using tons of angles and yes editing is very demanding but we too think its worth it. Thanks also for your kind remarks its appreciated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Riggs View Post
Hi Gino overall I enjoyed it. This is a personal taste but I'm not a huge fan of the constant vignetting/color grading. I prefer more subtle enhancing of the image. However, the section when the couple came out of the church was lovely.
What frame rate were you shooting?
Hi Joe,

Thanks for kind reply. We are still experimenting with grading trying to find our own look so its sort of a work in progress. Thank you for noticing that particular scene. Its one of my favorites in the piece and I loved the way it turned out myself. Too me everything just came together nicely, not so easy in live event coverage.

I think its 30 FPS (Z1 Cineframe 30 preset).

Regards

GMan
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