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Old April 11th, 2013, 09:48 AM  
8 weddings and one year later - feedback wanted
Robert Benda Robert Benda is offline April 11th, 2013, 09:48 AM

We are finishing up our 8th wedding, and after one year of this, we're looking for any feedback. Two of us have been shooting on three Canon T3is but just got our first 5d mark ii after we shot this one.

It's what I call a final rough draft, my last chance for changes, of the 10 minute video. We had some trouble with one SD card going missing (parent interviews and groom getting ready, which I'm sick about); and the other shooter (my wife) has some footage that is way over exposed (which I'm really mad about), but I did my best to fix it (dropped Gamma as much as I could, and some color correction).

Suggestions are welcome. I'll also be doing a 4-5 minute cinematic.


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Old April 16th, 2013, 09:52 AM   #31
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Re: 8 weddings and one year later - feedback wanted

I don't mind the debate over DSLR or not, though we'll keep using at least one, simply because the 5d Mark ii is pretty decent in low light and we do a pics/backdrop add-on.

I feel the next couple of weddings will reveal what we should do, if we need different cameras. We just filmed again Saturday, after we both read through this forum. I haven't started editing yet, though, as I've been making changes to the video I posted originally. I think I've done the best I can with the material available, which is by far our worst work. It was the first time we tried to do custom white balance and it was a disaster. This time we put that back on auto, and what I did see, was much better.

For my wife and myself, I gathered all in one place the material I've been studying... articles and videos on how-to shoot a wedding, tell a story, and use the camera properly. We've got six weeks to study and practice before season really kicks in.
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Old April 16th, 2013, 10:09 AM   #32
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Re: 8 weddings and one year later - feedback wanted

Robert, I think it is great that you are being so open minded about it. You are doing exactly the right thing, taking in the differing points of view and experimenting yourself with different ways of working. As you gain more experience and read and learn more, you will find what suits you and your wife and gives you the best results.

Good luck with your progress and keep everyone up to date with how it is going.

Roger
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Old April 16th, 2013, 11:01 AM   #33
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Re: 8 weddings and one year later - feedback wanted

Thanks, Roger.

For me it's all about being able to do something well. If I can do it well, then I want to do it great.

There are two kinds of ways to learn: 1) watch or listen to someone who is great at their job, and you can see what you never knew was possible; OR 2 (which happened Saturday) see someone who is so bad, you are reminded of what not to do.

The photographers we worked with were grumpy, curt, and made no effort to hide the fact. Just before the 1st sight, I was chatting up the groom, trying to prime him, asking leading questions 'are you nervous, excited?' and generally asking about his fiance. I got through 30 seconds and 2 questions before photographer turned to him and said, "You getting tired of 20 questions?" Grrrr. Look, lady, I'm just trying to get a better reaction here.

Later, when the photographers found out the 1st dance was at 8:30, they remarked, "well, they only have us til 8:30. I guess we'll have to stay til 9 and charge them extra."

It was just their whole attitude that rubbed us the wrong way and reminded me that, almost as much as anything, we have to at least pretend we're enjoying ourselves and care how things go. I just wanted to tell the photogs, 'Don't be that guy.'
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Old April 16th, 2013, 11:22 AM   #34
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Re: 8 weddings and one year later - feedback wanted

Bravo Robert. Many photographers must go to school to learn to be reactionary toward videographers.
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Old April 16th, 2013, 01:20 PM   #35
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Re: 8 weddings and one year later - feedback wanted

[QUOTE=Noa Put;1790263]It will solve his problem on very short notice, like I said about those totally blown shots of the bride which would have looked ok with a regular videocamera.

Noa,
Nice work and even smarter business model. The business model is more what this conversation should be about.

I know a guy who uses six 5D's . 4 manned and 2 unmanned. He charges $2500 bucks for this. That's a awful business model.

Some people no doubt do amazing work with dslr's and some get paid accordingly. Sadly most do not.

The poster could learn a lot from your model.

Al
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Old April 17th, 2013, 10:40 AM   #36
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Re: 8 weddings and one year later - feedback wanted

Peter, have you bought the AC90? If so what are your first impressions on the images it produces?

Al, you are correct about having the right business model (unless you are a hobbyist). I'm sure we could all make great videos if we could hire a whole lot of top class cameramen with their equipment but we wouldn't make much money! I am looking for the most cost effective camera for my needs. I would like my camera to make me as big a profit as possible.
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Old April 17th, 2013, 01:43 PM   #37
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Re: 8 weddings and one year later - feedback wanted

Andrew, yes I bought one earlier this month and following a day of intensive manual studying and playing used it the following day on a wedding - that was not a risky strategy as I have other cams to fall back on.

I've described a few 1st impressions earlier in this thread in the post about that wedding.

Also its easier to hand hold than I was expecting courtesy of its form factor and built in image stabilisation. I have a cage and a shoulder rig but am hoping to get away with a monopod at most - unless I need to put a light on it at some point.

These removable straps work great with it:

Op/Tech Pro Camera Strap with Pro Loop Connectors

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I use them a lot on other gear such as the cage and shoulder rig, lightstands, big battery rigs,(for powering flashguns) and of course stills cameras.You can get extra connectors so that you don't have multiple complete straps:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

All part of my cunning plans which enable me to work quickly and efficiently alone :- )

A digression: Barry Green's highly recommended book on the AC90 that has been free to USA AC90 buyers, I was able to order it on amazon dot com even though I'm in the amazon dot co dot uk area, and shipping was only 5.41 from US to UK.

Pete
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Old April 17th, 2013, 03:35 PM   #38
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Re: 8 weddings and one year later - feedback wanted

Pete how do you find matching the tm900 and the ac90? I have just recently purchased the ac90 and have to say that I am impressed so far!! I now just need a second cam for cut aways and back up, does the tm900 cut well?
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Old April 17th, 2013, 03:53 PM   #39
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Re: 8 weddings and one year later - feedback wanted

Johnny, I haven't edited that wedding yet, and its not a particularly good example as each of the 4 cams I was running had radically different viewpoints due to the variations in the type of mixed lighting, the dynamic range to deal with etc that you get in a dark interior that features small bright windows and a mix of daylight and concentrated tungsten.

But I have got as far as creating the multicam track for editing in Vegas Pro and it doesn't seem to be presenting any special challenges. Straight out the camera the AC90 may have slightly over-exposed and the white balance may have a slight magenta caste but both these are easily corrected and are more likely down to the unique position it was in than any bias. This was not a test so it wasn't practical to place two or more cams together on a rail to shoot the same subject under the same conditions.

The TM900 is an excellent 2nd cam. It was superceded by the X900 and that by the X920. The TM900 has a good reputation and pre-owned ones can command a high price. I'd be inclined to get an X900 and avoid paying the heavy premium for the new X920. I think the only downside with the X900 is that the card slot is underneath so you have to remove it from a head to change cards - but that should not be an issue with 25 32GB 45mb/s Sandisk class 10 cards from Amazon anyway :- )

They all can shoot at 1920x1080 progressive 50fps so you don't get any clip mixing silliness in post.

3 cams makes for an easier shoot than 2 cams. Counter-intuitive I know but it works.

Pete
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Old April 18th, 2013, 04:20 PM   #40
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Re: 8 weddings and one year later - feedback wanted

yeah I have been eyeing up the x900 and its within budget however the small form factor and lack of manual controls of the small handicams are putting me off slightly..How do you find using them at weddings? Is there anyway to mount a mic/light?

Ideally I would love another ac90 but two expensive hits in one year would be too much..:-)
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Old April 19th, 2013, 02:27 AM   #41
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Re: 8 weddings and one year later - feedback wanted

Johnny, the small form factor is one of the biggest virtues. You can put these cams in all sorts of positions where it simply wouldn't be possible with larger cams on tripods. For example in the wedding I described earlier I had one attached to a wall light fitting on the bride's side using a friction arm and that framed the bride and groom beautifully capturing the groom making his vows exchanging rings etc. Other times I've attached one to windows behind the officiant using suction cups. They are small so they are discreet and often go completely unnoticed.

Manual controls are there but they are convoluted to use compared to fancier cams. But they do such a good job on auto that its usually not relevant. The only adjustment I regularly use at weddings is to switch on the backlight compensation feature.

They come with a cold shoe removable attachment. You would not want to put a huge amount of weight on it but it will take a shotgun mic or a light such as a Z96 with AA batteries. If you wanted to use more accessories you'd probably use a cage.

Pete
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Old April 19th, 2013, 07:27 PM   #42
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Re: 8 weddings and one year later - feedback wanted

Hi Peter

Sadly I am right as it's not an assumption but accurate information delivered by the one and only Barry Green who wrote the AC-90 book. I do trust his facts and that sadly put me off using the cams at receptions where I do need auto XLR ...then again I guess for just general audio and dancing the internal mics (which DO have auto) would probably suffice.

Cam choice is very much a personal thing much like a car purchase and what suits some doesn't suit others regardless of the fact that they all will provide much the same end result.You like the discreteness of smaller cameras and I like the convenience of a shoulder mount camera ..it's good we are all different otherwise things would be really boring

Chris
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