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Old April 19th, 2014, 05:45 AM   #1
4K GH4 wedding footage
Adrian Tan Adrian Tan is offline April 19th, 2014, 05:45 AM

I think most people on this forum have probably seen this footage already, but anyway...


The author, William Innes, notes:

A beautiful wedding this last weekend at the Legendary Park Plaza Hotel in Downtown Los Angeles. We filmed this entire piece in 4K on the new Panasonic GH4.

This was shot at a live wedding using the GH4 that has not been released yet. Panasonic requested some 4K sample footage to show at WPPI the first week of March. Their request was some simple footage from an actual event. This was shot on Bevin and Josh's actual wedding day in real time, this was not a Styled shoot. Panasonic wanted their camera to speak for itself so they requested that the footage not be filtered or overproduced. The firmware on the camera is being constantly upgraded before they go to release so I shot this in 4K at 100mbps, the only 4K option that was available on this test camera. I used 4 Panasonic Lumix Lenses. The 7-14mm, a 12-35mm, 25mm prime and a 35-100mm. There is obviously no 4K option to upload onto Vimeo yet, but Panasonic wants to unveil the 4K at WPPI anyway. They will be playing this clip in full resolution on a 4K monitor at WPPI. Please come say hello and I'll be happy to answer any questions. Matt Sutherland of Matrimony Films, Thanks!

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Old April 19th, 2014, 06:03 AM   #2
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Re: 4K GH4 wedding footage

Actually, if you simply type "4k wedding" into YouTube, you get a lot of hits -- mostly from people using a Scarlet.

Eg:

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Old April 19th, 2014, 06:46 AM   #3
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Re: 4K GH4 wedding footage

I found it funny when I read in the description of those youtube videos: "shot on RED Scarlet-X at 4096 x 2160 [4x greater than 1080 HD]. to view in 4K, click "original" in the resolution menu."
We all know that any potential client that will watch those youtube videos will not be able to see it at 4k because they all have 720p to 1080p screen sizes to view it from, same applies for that vimeo sample, if you are a plus member your videos will end up at 720p anyway after vimeo converts it so what's the point in calling it 4k and showing in online? Another issue I experienced when selecting the 4k option in youtube is that the video buffers forever and then play 2 seconds to start buffering again.

I wonder, for anyone planning to invest into 4k camera's, how many of you would consider using the "4k" term as a selling point to your clients? As I see it if you are talented enough, you won't have to say to your wedding clients what gear you use and in what format you shoot, your work should speak for itself. Imagine you'd say, "4K Uncompressed 10bit 4:2:2 wedding video!", It looks like we have a new buzz word, "cinematic" has had it's time I guess :)
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Old April 19th, 2014, 08:20 AM   #4
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Re: 4K GH4 wedding footage

Noa, especially since they don't have 4K TVs.

Rather than focusing on 4K, focus on the emotional benefit to the client, same as selling anything else. So, for now, when people can't actually see 4K, what good does it do them?

Maybe mentioning still frames. Maybe the branding of 4K will have *some* appeal to folks who seek brands or high-end quality, but even that seems like a line in a FAQ. Everything else it's good for seems like a tool for us getting a better shot. Not something to tell the clients about.

Anyone else have ideas?
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Old April 19th, 2014, 04:05 PM   #5
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Re: 4K GH4 wedding footage

Well, I've definitely had a few couples express interest in 4K, without anyone really committing to it -- mainly the sort of people who are into video as something cool and showy.

Abraham Joffe mentioned at Exposed Down Under that he's sold a number of 4K package upgrades to clients already. Cost of the upgrade? $4K for 4K. So I sort of feel -- if he can do it, and use 4K as a selling point on top of having fantastic work anyway, why can't all the rest of us?

Edit: Just to clarify, 4K isn't the selling point here; it's not really what convinces the couple to book him in the first place. Rather, it's a package upgrade.
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Old April 19th, 2014, 04:14 PM   #6
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Re: 4K GH4 wedding footage

That's funny, Abraham Joffe has a film on his website where they talk about the company saying it's not about the gear but the content and story :)
But you can tell a better story in 4k! :D

The couples you had that where interested in 4k, is it something you introduced to them or did they come with the question? If they want to know what the difference is, are you already able to show them or just tell them it's 4 times HD?
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Old April 19th, 2014, 04:24 PM   #7
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Re: 4K GH4 wedding footage

The couples interested in it -- to be honest, I brought it up. I'm not sure they'd heard of 4K before.

Did I have samples ready to show them? Nope! But, with my type of clients, I think it's cost that was the deterrent (which included factoring in the cost of renting the cameras on the day).
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Old April 19th, 2014, 04:42 PM   #8
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Re: 4K GH4 wedding footage

I think it's difficult to sell at a premium price if you cannot show, maybe Abraham has a 4k tv and shot a wedding in 4k or he is just a good salesman who could sell some glasses to a blind man. :)

In order to get this sold to your client you should have a 4k workflow to convince your client why they should buy a 4K master from you, I imagine having a large 4k tv and show a 1080p master shot on a 5dII and then a 4k master shot with a 4k camera on that same tv, that should be enough to convince them. Then it's just a matter of providing them, besides dvd,s and a 1080p master a 4k master as well which they can play once they have a suitable tv and mediaplayer that can stream 4K. It's just a matter of time before you can buy 4k tv's at the price of 1080p ones, I already saw one go below 1000 dollar.
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Old April 20th, 2014, 04:03 PM   #9
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Re: 4K GH4 wedding footage

Seiki 39" - around $500... just scored a lightly used one for well less than that... It will be my new monitor! Got to get a motherboard/CPU/memory and clean the desk, but just testing this thing...

Tested so far with RX10 stills at 4K output via HDMI - WOW... got it working with a laptop by inputting the right specs manually on an NVDIA card - again, WOW. Still need to look at some YouTube 4K footage others have shot... but I'm guessing "wow"... still waiting for the open box deal on an AX100...

I'm sure it's not "the best" TV/monitor, but for the $$....?!? Considering a cheap 39-40" 1080 will run $300-ish... and the Seiki does of course display 1080...


4K comes under the "once seen, cannot be unseen" category - the sharpness is just a tad too much to ignore. This may be a downside to some extent if one is after "dreamy" cinematic video, but I'm thinking that "could" be mixed in here and there as "effect", with care. The "looking through a window" look is something that will definitely enhance the "being there" feeling - not so much "video-ish" vibe, more a "really there" feeling.

I suspect 4K will catch on far faster than anyone expects, at least for some forms of programming, and IF you are set up for it, I would think it would be a selling point!

Last edited by Dave Blackhurst; April 20th, 2014 at 04:39 PM.
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Old April 20th, 2014, 05:27 PM   #10
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Re: 4K GH4 wedding footage

Shane Hurlbut had a series of three posts last year on diffusion for the digital age -- how to take the bite out of the video look. One post on glass filtration, one post on using smoke (one of these days I'm going to take a cheap smoke machine to a bridal prep, I swear), and one on sticking French stockings to the rear of the lens.

A fourth option might be: use a less sharp lens. And fifth is: fix it in post.

I suppose too sharp is better than not sharp enough, in the same way that it's easier to make a hard light instrument soft than a soft light hard.
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Old April 21st, 2014, 02:52 AM   #11
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Re: 4K GH4 wedding footage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst View Post
Seiki 39" - around $500...
That's a small tv for 4K, if you look at the same output from your rx10 on a 1080p tv, is the difference that large from a normal viewing distance? I also see it "upscales" 1080p to 4k, how does that look on that tv?
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Old April 21st, 2014, 11:49 AM   #12
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Re: 4K GH4 wedding footage

Small for a 4K TV, but large for a monitor <wink>. Since the RX10 switches between 1080 and 4K on the HDMI, you can definitely see the difference, but this is from fairly close distances - I will do more testing as I assemble the rest of the bits to drive this thing (AKA new computer... monitor and CPU down, motherboard and memory to go!). 1080 looks "good", but then you switch and suddenly all the "detail" starts to pop out at you, switch back, and 1080 looks "soft ". I wasn't super impressed by 1080 HD cable, but it was OK. Didn't really get a lot of time to try various things, and for the price, didn't expect "a lot", but I will say the results so far are plenty satisfactory.

I think a lot of it will depend on how "good" ones eyes are - at 4-6 feet though, the difference is hard to miss. I will fiddle with larger distances as I get set up. I'm sure that a larger screen will be needed for "typical" viewing to get the most out of 4K, but again, much will depend on how good ones vision/eyes are.

Honestly I've heard and read so many times how 720p is "fine" for smaller HD TV's, but I'm sorry, it looks like MUSH on every one I've seen - including an early one I've got. I can distinctly see the difference in sharpness between a 720 26" screen and a 1080 24" screen. I'm not sure why some people just don't seem to see the differences (maybe they own stock in a factory that makes 720 screens?!), but when someone makes a blanket statement that you "just can't see the difference", I have to shake my head (and a facepalm is appropriate!). The recent DVi adventures with "artifacted" 4K from the AX100 are illustrative that some people see thing "differently"...
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Old April 21st, 2014, 04:03 PM   #13
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Re: 4K GH4 wedding footage

The weddingbookings I have for this year and the new booking"s I"m starting to get for next year are still sold as good old 1080p :) That will eventually change but for this and next year a 4k camera would not be a necessary investment for me. I guess that for 2016 I would have to think about moving all my gear to 4K exclusively. I was thinking in selling my g6 and replace it with another gh3 but I today I saw iso comparisons posted here and the gh4 is visible cleaner at the highest iso levels, that together with the extra functionality like zebra's might make it worth spending the extra cash. I"m still not that drawn to "4k" at this moment, not until my entire workflow is adjusted to delivering 4k to my clients and like I said that is going to be 2016, maybe 2017 at the earliest.
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Old April 22nd, 2014, 02:41 PM   #14
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Re: 4K GH4 wedding footage

This is the challenge - where and when to invest - for your setup, a GH4 is a "logical" upgrade if one is so inclined. I'm dropping a couple PJ710's, heading towards the AX100. An "RX10M2" with 4K would be another logical upgrade.

I see 4K as something you should probably experiment with, while it's still "bleeding edge", so that as it becomes mainstream, you're already ready.

The whole delivery question is the one piece I see as missing - but the image quality is convincing, and I'd rather have the additional resolution, if it's practical. I don't see delivering "end product" in 4K for a while, yet there are a couple longer term projects I'd rather have "4K in the can" for!

Like anything, I'd rather plan to be ahead of the curve instead of behind... within reason and budget. That's where a "cheap" 4K TV that will be a decent monitor makes sense, upgrading aging computer parts to things that should handle 4K, again makes sense. An AX100 at an open box price, makes sense as well, when the opportunity arises. In a couple years, 4K will be cheaper, widely available, and there will probably be "better, cheaper" options, but at least I'll be ready to deal with the workflow!
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