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Old September 26th, 2007, 09:38 AM   #1
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Firestore a must for SDE?

It is a must to get those direct recording HDD such as firestore when you are doing a multi-cam wedding (2-3 cams) and each cam need to have its own HDD . Given that there's only around 5 hours for you to edit, render and burn, it is impossible to do it with tapes. Correct me if I'm wrong?

Its a real big investment to get a HDD for each cam isn't it?
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Old September 26th, 2007, 12:14 PM   #2
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Maybe when doing a multicam SDE. Never have and probably never will.
However for a single cam SDE I got DVRack software for my laptop and used it. I only had about 90 minutes between ceremony and showing. Because of the bulk of the laptop it pretty much limits you to a stationary position. I had considered Firestore but couldn't get the wife to ok the expendature. Actually worked very well.
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Old September 26th, 2007, 12:22 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Terry Esslinger View Post
Maybe when doing a multicam SDE. Never have and probably never will.
However for a single cam SDE I got DVRack software for my laptop and used it. I only had about 90 minutes between ceremony and showing. Because of the bulk of the laptop it pretty much limits you to a stationary position. I had considered Firestore but couldn't get the wife to ok the expendature. Actually worked very well.
A single cam SDE isnt really a prob I guess, unless in your case where you only have 90mins. Over my side we normally have 5 hrs to settle the SDE.
How about getting a backpack and put the laptop inside, with only a firewire popping out into the cam. Makes u more mobile I guess.
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Old September 26th, 2007, 10:42 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Kenny Shem View Post
It is a must to get those direct recording HDD such as firestore when you are doing a multi-cam wedding (2-3 cams) and each cam need to have its own HDD . Given that there's only around 5 hours for you to edit, render and burn, it is impossible to do it with tapes. Correct me if I'm wrong?

Its a real big investment to get a HDD for each cam isn't it?
Hi Kenny,

We have one HDD and we typically do two camera SDEs. I wish we had 5 hours to edit. That would be so nice to have that much time.

We use an nNovia, which lets me mark scenes. That way we don't have to bring the entire ceremony over to the laptop. Just the scenes we need for the SDE.

When it's possible, we feed the second camera into the laptop. When the setup of the church will not allow for that, we just make notes of the time code at the key events of the ceremony. That can really speed up the capture time from camera two.

We didn't have the nNovia for the first 4-5 SDEs we did, so it is possible to do SDEs without HDDs, but it sure does save time with at least one HDD.

I would suggest buying one HDD. Then you can make a more informed decision if you can justify the cost of a second one.
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Old September 27th, 2007, 04:11 AM   #5
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Just got All New Firestore FS-4 HD ready for action :)
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Old September 27th, 2007, 11:41 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Mark Von Lanken View Post
Hi Kenny,

We have one HDD and we typically do two camera SDEs. I wish we had 5 hours to edit. That would be so nice to have that much time.

We use an nNovia, which lets me mark scenes. That way we don't have to bring the entire ceremony over to the laptop. Just the scenes we need for the SDE.

When it's possible, we feed the second camera into the laptop. When the setup of the church will not allow for that, we just make notes of the time code at the key events of the ceremony. That can really speed up the capture time from camera two.

We didn't have the nNovia for the first 4-5 SDEs we did, so it is possible to do SDEs without HDDs, but it sure does save time with at least one HDD.

I would suggest buying one HDD. Then you can make a more informed decision if you can justify the cost of a second one.
I was thinking of the nNovia too. What your feedback for it? Its looks bulkier than the Sony HVR-DR60 but its much cheaper and have a higher capacity HDD. I'm looking at the QC HD with 120G HDD (yummy).
May I also ask how heavy is it? I intend to fix it to the base plate of my Glidecam to replace the weights. Thank you. :)

Kenny
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Old September 27th, 2007, 03:56 PM   #7
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A direct to disk solution is not necessary by any means, in my mind. I too would very rarely get five hours. Two is usually standard. Our weddings are in the 4-5 camera range as well. Planning annd experience really go along way with dealing with all that media.

I've done my past couple in HD and have actually left my firestore at home as I prefer to import and use FCP codec over the quicktime codec that the firestore offers for HD. Doing SD weddings, the firestore is great, but many factors are helpful with an SDE, and the firestore is just one piece. One of the last SDEs we did was cut on a laptop, in HD (24P) in just under an hour. It was a surprise for the couple and we opted out of using our firestores.

To me, the 24" imac I bring along with 4 gigs of ram goes much further than the firestore does- but that is also related to our style of using 35mm adapters (which invert the image) and a lot of color work.

Patrick
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Old September 28th, 2007, 06:20 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Patrick Moreau View Post
A direct to disk solution is not necessary by any means, in my mind. I too would very rarely get five hours. Two is usually standard. Our weddings are in the 4-5 camera range as well. Planning annd experience really go along way with dealing with all that media.

I've done my past couple in HD and have actually left my firestore at home as I prefer to import and use FCP codec over the quicktime codec that the firestore offers for HD. Doing SD weddings, the firestore is great, but many factors are helpful with an SDE, and the firestore is just one piece. One of the last SDEs we did was cut on a laptop, in HD (24P) in just under an hour. It was a surprise for the couple and we opted out of using our firestores.

To me, the 24" imac I bring along with 4 gigs of ram goes much further than the firestore does- but that is also related to our style of using 35mm adapters (which invert the image) and a lot of color work.

Patrick
Well Patrick, I agree experience and planning is very important. Maybe I'm not that experienced and therefore shoot too much and waste too many tape footage, which result in unnecessary capturing.
When u mention you don't use firestore, does it means you use tape and capture it into laptop and edit within 1 hour? How is that possible?
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Old September 28th, 2007, 04:25 PM   #9
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I like the nNovia and have had no problems with it. We have one and have been testing it and so far no problems. It captures .mov and avi files. It is a little bulky but is a tough unit. It is my understanding that nNovia is working on a mount for the Z1U and XL2, which will be helpful. We plan on purchasing another unit.

Thanks,
John
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Old September 29th, 2007, 04:27 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Patrick Moreau View Post
Our weddings are in the 4-5 camera range as well. One of the last SDEs we did was cut on a laptop, in HD (24P) in just under an hour.
Patrick
If you have 5 cameras, each with an hour of footage, it will take AT LEAST 5 hours just to capture. How can you possibly edit an SDE with 5 cameras in under an hour? Especially if you're not using a Firestore-like device?

I'm using Citidisk HD with one camera and even with it, editing takes well over an hour for SDE.

Your numbers don't add up....
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Old September 30th, 2007, 05:57 AM   #11
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We don't use HDDs. I'm sure it's a boon for those who do but here are my reasons.

1. additional weight and bulk to the camera. the letus setup alone is weighty enough. and it cramps the shooting style i am accustomed to.

2. every start/stop of the camera produces one video file. importing all these clips into my bin and double clicking each and every one looking for the perfect clip slows down my editing. (my quickstreamDV doesnt have a mark feature)

i am more used to scrubbing through a long video file to in and out.

Just manage and streamline the capturing process so yes you can do SDEs without HDs.
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Old September 30th, 2007, 06:04 AM   #12
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Hi Warren,

In behalf of Pat,

Capturing doesn't start after the ceremony. It's an ongoing process through the day. Starting during the preps. When enough footage has been gathered at any time, capturing starts.

The numbers will add up.
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