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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old December 25th, 2007, 04:11 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenna Klingensmith View Post
by the way, and This will be my 4th wedding, and I've never been paid a dime for any of the work that I have done, so I'm aching to get something.
No offense but I think $100 is too much. :) Or it's at least fair to start out with.

It sounds like you've never even done this before? (2nd cam work). I literally had to "give" my stuff away to get experience whereas you get some training with a bit of change in your pocket to boot.

I don't know how well you know this guy but I'd stick it out for a while before demanding he double it. When you're fully established in business this relationship may even come in handy some day.
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Old December 26th, 2007, 10:14 AM   #17
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Regular Rates.....

Jenna, I run a Wedding/Special event company in Youngstown, Ohio. Don't know how far that is from you, but my regulay pay is $125.00 for a ceremony only shoot, and if I need the 2nd shooter for the day, it goes to $300.00 The shooter uses my gear, he/she just shows up. I pay that because I want good talent, and I also want the people who shoot for me to feel appreciated, and therefore give me a good product. We both come out on top that way. We're shooting with DSR-300's, until march when we're getting 2 EX cameras + other toys. Maybe that is helpful to you, to know what your talent is worth.
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Old December 26th, 2007, 01:07 PM   #18
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I'm actually quite close to youngstown ohio. And to Rick, who quoted me saying this is my forth wedding, and then replied "it sounds like you've never done this before".. It is my 3rd wedding as a 2nd cameraman and I've shot one wedding by myself and edited it. I do like the fact that I can work as a 2nd cam man and not have to worry about the final product. But I also don't get any credit. I'd really like to use some of my own footage for a demo, but he keeps putting off giving it to me.
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Old December 26th, 2007, 01:35 PM   #19
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Hi Jenna,
I guess if no one is beating down your door for 2nd cam work then take the cash. The reason he may not be giving you the footage may be that he owns the footage and not you. If he gives you the footage and you put together a decent demo reel, then you become competition in which sounds like a small town. I wouldn't want you to open a business doing weddings and cut into my profit using footage of weddings that I acquired the business for. Also if you do a bad job editing someone may see that work and associate it with my business as well which would be bad too. In order to get the footage I would negotiate a deal for the $100 plus the footage and get it in writing and sub contract yourself under a business name. If you are serious about getting into the wedding biz anyway, you might as well license yourself and charge him appropriately.
Just my 2 cents though
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Old December 26th, 2007, 03:23 PM   #20
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$100 per day is what I pay my 20 year old son. Honestly, I probably pay him a little more than I would any other 20 year old, but that's because he's my son and I love him! :)

I do have one other guy that helps out on smaller projects, and I pay him $15 per hour.
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Old December 26th, 2007, 04:11 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Jenna Klingensmith View Post
I have no choice at this point.
he's not ripping you off in the least. i'm sure he booked this wedding awhile ago based on certain set of expectations, which included not paying you. that's what he budgeted for because that's what you led him to believe that he could expect. or he might not have not included a 2nd cam at all in the price he quoted the client.

moreover, 2/3rds of what he is making is likely based on the edit, not the shoot, which gets exponentially more difficult, the more cameras involved. so by adding a 2nd camera, he is also more than doubling the edit load. he's providing more value for his client, but also biting off more work and spending more time, if he is adding a 2nd camera. so his per-hour rate on the edit is dropping like a stone.

on the basis of the expectations set for this budget, it sounds reasonable. you need to advise him to bake the budget differently, if you are going to ask for more money.

if you think more like a business person and less like a beleaguered employee, this will make sense to you.

"i have no choice" is the biggest lie you will ever tell yourself.
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Old December 26th, 2007, 05:24 PM   #22
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in my country/city $100 is ok, but per hour !
And 2nd cam means nothing else than he cannot handle two cams at the same time. It means nothing regarding the salary.
If he crash the first cam, the only valid shoot will be in yours.
So i do not see why spending 3 hours behind the second cam would pay less than behind the main cam (if skills are equal, and even if they are not).
just set a decent hourly rate and stick to it.
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Old December 26th, 2007, 09:48 PM   #23
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$100 is ok, but per hour !
hehehehehe... that's a good one!!!


But seriously... just how much do people pay for wedding videos in your country? (in American dollars).

Jeff
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Old December 27th, 2007, 01:42 AM   #24
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in my country/city $100 is ok, but per hour !
I'm moving to your country and becoming the second camera guy at weddings. $100/hr for holding the wide shot steady and pulling off one or two smooth pans or zooms, that's like stealing. Maybe you require more from your second camera than I do.
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Old December 27th, 2007, 02:14 AM   #25
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Heck, 100 bucks, why not? If you need the money take it, but concentrate on trying to find enough work you don't have to bother with low-ball jobs like that.
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Old December 27th, 2007, 04:27 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Jenna Klingensmith View Post
Okay, I posted a thread not to long ago about a guy I was freelance for.. for "free" .. well I finally told this guy I expect to be paid like he would pay any other freelancer.. he says $100 is what he pays his other free lancers for each event. Is that a rip off for me, or is that worth a days work as a 2nd videographer? I need an answer asap so I can tell him whether or not I am willing to do this wedding on SATURDAY..
Hi Jenna,

$100 for the day, huh? I wonder if he has he worked out issues with you like:

1. What happens if your gear breaks/gets stolen, etc?

2. What happens if you get hurt on the job?

3. Who pays for the video tapes? Will he provide the type you use (lubricated/non-lubricated) in your camera?

4. Will you receive a vendor meal?

5. Will you be released at a specific time, event, or at his discretion?

6. Will you show up and shoot, or be required to meet before wedding day to coordinate/choreograph multi-shot plans and communications, receive instructions on special shots and/or special guest shots, learn how to use his walkie-talkies, review a DVD of a prior wedding, etc.?

7. Will he provide constructive feedback, comparison to his video shots, receive an edited copy of the DVD at or near project completion?

8. Will you be required to wear special clothing, perhaps requiring you to incur a new clothing expense?

9. Will you be reimbursed for any expenses? (parking, tolls, disposable batteries, etc)

10. Do you know his criteria for success? How that applies to you? Which of these factors are important to him? Your proficiency, skills, judgment, enthusiasm, drive/tenacity, unobtrusive nature, non-shooting social skills, etc?

This is just a start but you get the idea - be sure to get clear expectations (his, brides, contracting client) on financial and business conditions before the wedding.

Good luck, Michael
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Old December 27th, 2007, 05:53 AM   #27
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quote: But seriously... just how much do people pay for wedding videos in your country? (in American dollars).

Yes in my country everything is expensive so you earn a lot of money to spend a lot of money. the balance is not so interesting.
(my rent for the house is $3000/month, health insurance $1200/month, taxes are $2000/month so you can imagine that at $100 per day you are not going very far).
Unfortunately, video for wedding is not an industry here, so you can hardly expect to make your life out of it. You better will as photographer (same $100 per hours even more since i rarely see a photographer more than 2 hours in a wedding and they charge usually between 500 et 800 for this).
I do more events like fairs, music performance and the rate is $120/hour for shooting whatever camera you are (main, 2nd etc..).
for example on the 31th dec. from 8pm to 3am i will shoot a dance performance and will earn 800$ for this.
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Old December 27th, 2007, 07:57 AM   #28
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Jenna,

I don't know if this will help you, but here's how it worked with me:

When I started shooting weddings many years ago, I shot with the studio's gear and I owned nothing. I learned that studio's methods and style. I got paid $25 per hour as the primary shooter. As I learned more and more, and as I got better and better, I purchased my own gear (little by little) and got work with other studios. Nowadays, I shoot for myself and 2 diffferent studios, and I keep a full schedule. My rates are 'top of the chart' for this area, and I didn't burn any bridges. If the guy I first shot for calls me back, I'll still work for him, but he'll have to pay my going rate.

Good luck figuring all this out!

Mark
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Old December 27th, 2007, 10:33 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Giroud Francois View Post
my rent for the house is $3000/month
So if you get hired for $100 per hour to shoot a three hour wedding, you'll be able to pay about 10% of your rent.

If Jenna gets $100 for the day, she'll be able to pay 20% of her rent.

I think Jenna got a better deal! ;)
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Old December 27th, 2007, 10:36 AM   #30
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This is exactly why we don't need, or want Universal Heath Care to take hold in this country.
Yes, but Giroud probably gets to keep a fully-automatic Sig 550 in his house.
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