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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old May 27th, 2008, 01:51 PM   #1
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wireless or not?

hello.

I'm trying to make a decision and I wanted to see what you all think(from your experience)

I'm about to buy the sennheiser G2 to add to my gear but I'm thinking.

Because it wont be bad to save a few $$$ to spend on other wanted gear, because still it seems like wireless are not very reliable, why not the work with a mic on a stand wired to my H4 for ceremony and anything else need it.

Of course, I will like to have a wireless mic on my gear as an option but is it money well spend? what do you think?

always thankful to this community.

Thanks
OT
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Old May 27th, 2008, 02:11 PM   #2
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One thought... MULTIPLE SOUND SOURCES.

I've been in a couple venues where they had lots of wireless systems running (multiple buildings, each with multiple wireless systems). MAYBE I could have found a clear channel or a VHF might have worked fine. They really didn't want me testing, and I wasn't that interested in trying.

I've added a couple of Sony's little wireless bluetooth mics (only work on their proprietary shoe, but I have those on my small cams anyway) to the arsenal, and use iriver/GS mic, plus record ambient and a board feed if I can get it. May be "low budget", but that's the market around here, and I'm getting good results...

You have to sort of think through the event profile and your audio capture recording options and see how the budget comes out. One high $ expenditure may or may not make sense.
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Old May 27th, 2008, 06:31 PM   #3
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It's been my experience and only MY experience that using a decent wireless system set up properly will encounter few if any problems thru the course of a wedding.
Using any kind of mic other than a lav on the groom could be problematic.
Now having said this please keep in mind I HAVE had an occassional glitch, especially years ago using the old VHF gear. Today about the only thing I run into is every once in a while I get the old cell phone/blackberry hunting for the network sound and frankly it's never been a problem enough to cause me grief in post production. Maybe I've been living lucky but it's never happened at a critical time of the wedding. I mic both the groom and the lecturn (today using an AT1800 dual channel receiver and 2 countryman EMW mics) along with the hypercaroid on my main camera and an AT897 on my 2nd camera (which generally gives me a very usable and clean music track of the ceremony.) Because of the way i have the receiver set up I can turn the grooms mic on and off with no snap crackle or pop so when he goes to hug someone I don't get the clothing rustle. (ugh I hate that sound).
IMO and only my opinion a wireless is one of the most important tools one can have in their kit. I've done many jobs with mine using a plugin transmitter when there are 10 other newsie's around and we're all jostling for the same sound bite. I used the lavs for talking heads interviews and of course wedding ceremonies and would absolutley be lost without my wireless. BTW I also use the wireless at the reception with a Sennheiser E604 drum mic and the plugin transmitter running back to the camera and the hypercaroid on the other channel of the camera and I have been as happy with the sound as I've ever been.
Point is regardless of what some people may say about wireless and I agree it's nice to have a digital recorder as a backup I would never ever trust my audio to a source I can not monitor and at least partially control.
BUT that's just me and I'm an old timer pretty set in my ways. YMMV!
Don
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Old May 27th, 2008, 06:37 PM   #4
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Don, I would have agreed with you a few years ago, but since I've switched to using Olympus DVR's I won't ever go back to wireless for a wedding. I've been using digital voice recorders for about 4 years now, and I've never had an issue with interference or dropout ... OR .... clipping from audio that was too loud. You do have an issue with having to resync the audio, but it doesn't take much time (maybe 10-15 minutes per wedding for me).

There is another thread going about this right now. Osmany, you should check it out. Inside it is another link to a post in the audio section discussing DVR's in even more depth. Good luck.
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Old May 27th, 2008, 07:19 PM   #5
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Hello Travis

Do you have a specific model to recommend? Im interested in an alternative to my broken I-rivers

Thanks

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Old May 27th, 2008, 07:31 PM   #6
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Check out the other thread on here for more info. I use the Olympus DS-30 DVR's.
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Old May 27th, 2008, 07:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osmany Tellez View Post
Because it wont be bad to save a few $$$ to spend on other wanted gear, because still it seems like wireless are not very reliable
How the heck do you get vows with an H4 set on a mic stand? Will the minister carry it for you? :)

And any piece of gear you buy will be crap if you don't spend a little money up front to get the job done right. I'm probably the biggest tight-wad in town and even *I* won't skimp on a wireless unit. If you scan for a proper frequency AFTER the church turns their sound system on and, do a quick sound test after mic'ing up the groom... there will be no problems with the G2. One of the better investments I made.
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Old May 27th, 2008, 08:08 PM   #8
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Travis,
While I agree in principal about non wireless recorders it's very hard for me to justify as I not only shoot weddings but many other types of work (some of which is for other people) where I might simply hand them the tapes at the end of the job so wireless is the only option for me. Creative directors don't want to have to run around getting audio from 1 source and video from another when producing run and gun intrviews at a convention/seminar or trade show.

I just wish Lectro would come out with a unit like the AT-dual channel. Oh well nothing wrong with the AT just Lectro is well Lectro!

Like I said, being an old timer I'm pretty well set in my ways so to each his own and since you're having sucess with the digital recorders I won't try to talk you back into wireless ;-)

Don
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Old May 27th, 2008, 08:19 PM   #9
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good question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Steele View Post
How the heck do you get vows with an H4 set on a mic stand? Will the minister carry it for you? :)

And any piece of gear you buy will be crap if you don't spend a little money up front to get the job done right. I'm probably the biggest tight-wad in town and even *I* won't skimp on a wireless unit. If you scan for a proper frequency AFTER the church turns their sound system on and, do a quick sound test after mic'ing up the groom... there will be no problems with the G2. One of the better investments I made.
well, you have a good point. If the wedding have a sound system I just get the signal to my H4 (with preview sound check) I tried it once and I get excellent sound. Of course I had the crazy idea to have a mic on a stand to my H4 this way it'll also get some ambient ( I guess I was thinking 1-strapped to stand...2 on a mini stand I have for it) I like using the Digital recorder because...even though I have to sinc in post I get and excelent quality, higher than camera can do, and very safe, no worries with interference, to have piece of mind. I also keep my on camera shotgun.

I'm glad to hear you all had good experience with G2, I just worry about them and some sound people will recommend first wired when possible. I even thought of lav wire to H4 in the jacket of the groom. Is that a crazy idea? H4 too big? what if its a smaller recorder?

please, help me get my thoughts straight.

thanks you.

OT
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Last edited by Osmany Tellez; May 27th, 2008 at 11:53 PM.
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Old May 27th, 2008, 11:52 PM   #10
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thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Cossel View Post
Don, I would have agreed with you a few years ago, but since I've switched to using Olympus DVR's I won't ever go back to wireless for a wedding. I've been using digital voice recorders for about 4 years now, and I've never had an issue with interference or dropout ... OR .... clipping from audio that was too loud. You do have an issue with having to resync the audio, but it doesn't take much time (maybe 10-15 minutes per wedding for me).

There is another thread going about this right now. Osmany, you should check it out. Inside it is another link to a post in the audio section discussing DVR's in even more depth. Good luck.
hey Travis.
Thanks a lot for your feed back. I'm interested in your set up. can you share how is the workflow you use with DVR? Also I took a look at the olympus you mentioned. can you explain why you like those? do you have controls? It looks good to me because the size will make them easy to put on anyone's pockects. compared to my H4 with 96Hz and 24bit wav. it has XLR imputs and a few more goodies..very happy with it... how is the olympus?

of course I wouldn't mind owning a wireless set, they are a cool useful tool but I want to make sure I have a solid, safe audio for weddings first. I will be nervous with the "IF" the wireless goes bad..scary.

thanks for sharing your opinion with us.
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Old May 27th, 2008, 11:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Bloom View Post
Travis,
While I agree in principal about non wireless recorders it's very hard for me to justify as I not only shoot weddings but many other types of work (some of which is for other people) where I might simply hand them the tapes at the end of the job so wireless is the only option for me. Creative directors don't want to have to run around getting audio from 1 source and video from another when producing run and gun intrviews at a convention/seminar or trade show.

I just wish Lectro would come out with a unit like the AT-dual channel. Oh well nothing wrong with the AT just Lectro is well Lectro!

Like I said, being an old timer I'm pretty well set in my ways so to each his own and since you're having sucess with the digital recorders I won't try to talk you back into wireless ;-)

Don
Actually, Don, I still have a wireless system that I can use for other work. I just like the DVR's for weddings because they just work so nicely. One thing I've mentioned before is that by using the DVR's, all 3 of my cameras now record their own audio, so I end up with 5 sound sources for each wedding. It just works for me.

My biggest concern with switching to these was not being able to monitor the audio levels, but it hasn't been an issue after several years of use (no clipping), so it's not a concern anymore. All that said, if you've got a system that works, stick with it! d;-)
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Old May 28th, 2008, 12:11 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osmany Tellez View Post
hey Travis.
Thanks a lot for your feed back. I'm interested in your set up. can you share how is the workflow you use with DVR? Also I took a look at the olympus you mentioned. can you explain why you like those? do you have controls? It looks good to me because the size will make them easy to put on anyone's pockects. compared to my H4 with 96Hz and 24bit wav. it has XLR imputs and a few more goodies..very happy with it... how is the olympus?

of course I wouldn't mind owning a wireless set, they are a cool useful tool but I want to make sure I have a solid, safe audio for weddings first. I will be nervous with the "IF" the wireless goes bad..scary.

thanks for sharing your opinion with us.
I don't mean to sound rude, but I've posted all of this quite a few times on here just recently. Just do a search or look at the threads I've posted in and you'll find a lot of information. If you still have questions, go ahead and ask away! Thanks.
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Old May 28th, 2008, 12:17 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Cossel View Post
I don't mean to sound rude, but I've posted all of this quite a few times on here just recently. Just do a search or look at the threads I've posted in and you'll find a lot of information. If you still have questions, go ahead and ask away! Thanks.

sorry..I just read it..found it..right after I posted...sorry.

I need to read more before asking more. too much info in my head now.

exited about the size of it...looks like it could hook to a lav...quality should ok...I'm interested n the belt option for H4 as well...but the size of this olympus...NICE...I like it

Good night

Thanks for replying.
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Old May 28th, 2008, 01:05 AM   #14
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No problem, I just didn't want to keep repeating myself over and over, lol.

DS-30 does have a lav input, which is what I use.
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