Hesitating to post this... but want opinions! at DVinfo.net

Dawn Brennan · June 25th, 2008, 09:03 PM

I sent a link to a bride and groom to watch a part of their video. Their package was pretty straight forward, no "frills", no photo session, no highlights... you get the point. But I decided to do a little something extra for them, and createde a sort of "review" of their day for the end of the video.

The reason for the hesitation is because after I sent them the link, they asked if they had the opportunity to watch the whole thing and if they didn't like sections, have me reedit. My answer is NO, unless they want to pay the reedit charges (or if there would be an error in the video), but it got me worried. Do you guys see anything majorly wrong with this that would prompt this question? I know you are going to be WAY more critical than they ever could be, given that they don't know much about video, but any opinion is welcome! WOW, I have never second guessed my work this badly before!

The link
www.dmbvideopgh.com/videos/NewtonReview.wmv

Andrew Kufahl · June 25th, 2008, 09:34 PM

In general I thought you did a good job. The things that stood out for me were:

1. On the transitions that you flashed white... I would have only flashed it within the framed shot, not the entire area. In other words, I would have confined the white flash to everything "inside" the black bars on the top and bottom.

2. When it got to the vow section and you lowered the music, I think I would have lowered it just a bit earlier. It was just a little abrupt (for me). Likewise, when you brought the music back up, I think I would have waited just a bit longer.

3. There was one scene where the groom was kissing the bride (1:36), where it almost looked as though she didn't want to kiss. Maybe I'm wrong. But I think if I had that clip sitting there I would have left it out unless I had nothing else to put in it's place.

Otherwise I thought the video was great in regard to the variety of shots, color and exposure.

Can't really see why they wouldn't like it... again, I think you did a great job.

Andrew

Oren Arieli · June 25th, 2008, 09:43 PM

Whose head was peaking in at 33 seconds? That was a bit distracting, as well as the issues previously mentioned. Solid work overall. Did they choose the music?

Travis Cossel · June 26th, 2008, 12:46 AM

Other than what was already mentioned, I didn't see anything "wrong" with the piece. I think you made a mistake in sending them the link, though. There are two schools of thought on this, and I side with the idea that "previewing" the video simply makes the couple think they need to look for things to change. For the past 4 or 5 years I've just delivered the final product and never had a complaint (other than a misspelling once - which was corrected for free).

I also believe that, in general, it's the couples who spend the least with you that end up expecting the most, so beware of that. In this case, the couple paid for a straight edit, and you gave them much more, but now they're expecting to be able to preview it and make changes that they want. I say stick to your guns on this and just deliver what you've done. If they really want to make changes, listen to the changes they want, and quote them a price that is worth it to you. Chances are they will change their mind on those changes when they find out the cost involved.

The only exception I see to this really is if you break away from the style of editing you showed the couple when you booked them, and go off and do something really different. Even then, I wouldn't do a preview, but if the couple came back unhappy with this different style, then I would at least consider a re-edit. The trick is to know what couples you can experiment with and what couples you can't. Again, the couples that pay the least are the ones I personally wouldn't experiment with.

Good luck!

Dawn Brennan · June 26th, 2008, 05:22 AM

Thanks for the replies. I'll have to check out that flash, because I'm not sure why its flashing the whole screen. It should have just been between the lines... thanks for bringing that to my attention. And I see what you mean about the music. I'll probably just fade it a second or 2 sooner and later at the end.

The kissing shot... I'll go back and try to dig up something else. They were a couple with very little emotion all day and when there was emotion, it always looked fake. I think this is a case where it shows through.

Oren - they did choose the music. It's a local band (The Clarks) and they wanted to use their music for the entire video. This song was their favorite, but I couldn't find a place to put it, which was the main reason for creating the review. Oh yeah, the head at :33, its gone in the final take. I didn't see it until after I sent them the link and just never had a chance to rerender and fix it online. That was the photographer (one of the 3)... she stood up and blocked my shot, and only moved after I tapped her on the shoulder... but that's a whole nother topic for discussion :)

Travis - I definitely agree with you... my main mistake here was to send them the link, but I just love to surprise people, and typically this doesn't backfire. Lesson learned. I don't think my editing style has changed at all really. Maybe things are done a little better than last year, but the overall idea hasn't changed. I think you hit the nail on the head when you say that the couples that pay the least, want the most.

Thanks again for taking the time to review it!

Rick Steele · June 26th, 2008, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawn Brennan

Do you guys see anything majorly wrong with this that would prompt this question

That's impossible to say as it sounds like what you posted for us to review is not the same thing you sent the couple when they posed their questions.

Or perhaps I misread.

Dawn Brennan · June 26th, 2008, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Steele

That's impossible to say as it sounds like what you posted for us to review is not the same thing you sent the couple when they posed their questions.

Or perhaps I misread.

This is the same thing I sent them... I corrected the "head" thing after I sent it. So the link I sent you is exactly what they saw before they emailed me.

Terry Esslinger · June 26th, 2008, 11:27 AM

I too noticed the apparent lack of passion or emotion or spontaneity (whatever you want to call it) in this couple but there is just so much an editor can do :>). Maybe they noticed it too and were bothered by it. Maybe they should have seen this before they got married??

Seriously, I felt it was good, but I would not have offered the 'preview' to them for reasons as stated by others. I liked the music.

Dave Blackhurst · June 26th, 2008, 11:51 AM

Didn't look THAT bad to me, some (many?) people simply aren't comfortable with PDA (public display of affection). Not to mention "the day" can be pretty stressful and not exactly condusive to joy and jubilation (this despite the huge runup to "the event" -perhaps it's hard for "the day" to live up to the hype?).

You have to work with what you got, looked OK to me...

Rick Steele · June 26th, 2008, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawn Brennan

This is the same thing I sent them... I corrected the "head" thing after I sent it. So the link I sent you is exactly what they saw before they emailed me.

Ok. I was just confused by your original post where you first say, "I sent a link to a bride and groom to watch a part of their video." then you said, "But I decided to do a little something extra for them"

I was under the impression we were only seeing that "extra" something" and not everything you sent the couple.

Anyway... why do you think they want to change things if this is all they've seen? I'm guessing they are just wondering what part they can have in the editing process (which is "none" of course). I get asked this all the time but usually at signing. I tell them it will cost extra and they just shrug their shoulders and say "ok'. I've never had anybody change anything that was willing to pay extra for it.

I wouldn't take it to mean they don't like what they've seen thus far. Your recap is fine and if this clip reflects similar work they saw when they booked you all should be well.

And it's not silly to do this... I host a couple's highlight clip for 30 days so they can send the link to family and friends. I give them this link the day i ship their DVD's. Half of my bookings result from somebody who has been invited to see one of these.

Travis Cossel · June 26th, 2008, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Steele

And it's not silly to do this... I host a couple's highlight clip for 30 days so they can send the link to family and friends. I give them this link the day i ship their DVD's. Half of my bookings result from somebody who has been invited to see one of these.

Just to clarify, I don't think it's silly to post the highlights either. I just don't think it's wise to post anything pre-delivery because it tends to open up that door of making changes.

Rick Steele · June 26th, 2008, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis Cossel

I just don't think it's wise to post anything pre-delivery because it tends to open up that door of making changes.

Have you tried it? A highlight clip should be ok as it generally reflects your best footage anyway. If you want to worry about something it should be that the final DVD might be somewhat of a letdown compared to the choice shots used in a highlight. :)

But I still can't picture a couple wanting changes based on Dawn's clip if that's all they've seen so far. Maybe there's a nose-picker in there I missed.

Travis Cossel · June 26th, 2008, 04:17 PM

Rick, I haven't tried it, but I've seen enough posts on here and elsewhere of people who have had problems with it. I've also never worked in a fast-food restaurant because I heard enough complaints about it growing up. I'm just choosing to avoid the hassle, lol.

As for posting highlights, I do that. I just don't do it until I've delivered the video. It doesn't really have a different impact, but it avoids any potential issue of a couple wanting to make changes. You're right that it's less likely to happen with a highlights video, but it's even less likely if you don't post it before delivering the goods!

Honestly, I think it also comes down to your approach and language. If you post something for a client to "review" or "preview", then I think you're opening the door. If you post it for them to "enjoy", then you're less like to open that door.

Kelsey Emuss · June 26th, 2008, 04:59 PM

Well she's a cold fish isn't she?!?!

I think it was cute...good job!

Dawn Brennan · June 26th, 2008, 05:07 PM

Thanks for the posts. I did reply to her email that we don't do re-edits once they receive the final DVD... without a pretty pricey re-edit fee. Hopefully that will satisfy her question... perhaps not the answer she wanted though. I was pretty happy about the clip, and although she said it was "good", it was followed in the email with "but will we get to review the whole wedding and ask for changes later?". I think this is the type of client that Travis is trying to describe. I almost always send a clip, either a trailer, highlight or something for them to see while we are working. Usually gets them excited and I have never had a problem, especially with this little teaser preview that I send. But for this one particular client, I just have a feeling that making them happy isn't going to necessarily happen, but I'll try my best!

June 25th, 2008, 09:03 PM	#1
Dawn Brennan Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 193	Hesitating to post this... but want opinions! I sent a link to a bride and groom to watch a part of their video. Their package was pretty straight forward, no "frills", no photo session, no highlights... you get the point. But I decided to do a little something extra for them, and createde a sort of "review" of their day for the end of the video. The reason for the hesitation is because after I sent them the link, they asked if they had the opportunity to watch the whole thing and if they didn't like sections, have me reedit. My answer is NO, unless they want to pay the reedit charges (or if there would be an error in the video), but it got me worried. Do you guys see anything majorly wrong with this that would prompt this question? I know you are going to be WAY more critical than they ever could be, given that they don't know much about video, but any opinion is welcome! WOW, I have never second guessed my work this badly before! The link www.dmbvideopgh.com/videos/NewtonReview.wmv

June 26th, 2008, 12:46 AM	#4
Travis Cossel Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 2,933	Other than what was already mentioned, I didn't see anything "wrong" with the piece. I think you made a mistake in sending them the link, though. There are two schools of thought on this, and I side with the idea that "previewing" the video simply makes the couple think they need to look for things to change. For the past 4 or 5 years I've just delivered the final product and never had a complaint (other than a misspelling once - which was corrected for free). I also believe that, in general, it's the couples who spend the least with you that end up expecting the most, so beware of that. In this case, the couple paid for a straight edit, and you gave them much more, but now they're expecting to be able to preview it and make changes that they want. I say stick to your guns on this and just deliver what you've done. If they really want to make changes, listen to the changes they want, and quote them a price that is worth it to you. Chances are they will change their mind on those changes when they find out the cost involved. The only exception I see to this really is if you break away from the style of editing you showed the couple when you booked them, and go off and do something really different. Even then, I wouldn't do a preview, but if the couple came back unhappy with this different style, then I would at least consider a re-edit. The trick is to know what couples you can experiment with and what couples you can't. Again, the couples that pay the least are the ones I personally wouldn't experiment with. Good luck! __________________ Black Label Films www.blacklabelweddingfilms.com

June 26th, 2008, 11:27 AM	#8
Terry Esslinger Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sacramento, Elk Grove. Calif Posts: 306	I too noticed the apparent lack of passion or emotion or spontaneity (whatever you want to call it) in this couple but there is just so much an editor can do :>). Maybe they noticed it too and were bothered by it. Maybe they should have seen this before they got married?? Seriously, I felt it was good, but I would not have offered the 'preview' to them for reasons as stated by others. I liked the music. __________________ Puttin the wet stuff on the red stuff!

June 26th, 2008, 04:17 PM	#13
Travis Cossel Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 2,933	Rick, I haven't tried it, but I've seen enough posts on here and elsewhere of people who have had problems with it. I've also never worked in a fast-food restaurant because I heard enough complaints about it growing up. I'm just choosing to avoid the hassle, lol. As for posting highlights, I do that. I just don't do it until I've delivered the video. It doesn't really have a different impact, but it avoids any potential issue of a couple wanting to make changes. You're right that it's less likely to happen with a highlights video, but it's even less likely if you don't post it before delivering the goods! Honestly, I think it also comes down to your approach and language. If you post something for a client to "review" or "preview", then I think you're opening the door. If you post it for them to "enjoy", then you're less like to open that door. __________________ Black Label Films www.blacklabelweddingfilms.com

June 25th, 2008, 09:34 PM	#2
Andrew Kufahl Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Menasha, WI Posts: 88	In general I thought you did a good job. The things that stood out for me were: 1. On the transitions that you flashed white... I would have only flashed it within the framed shot, not the entire area. In other words, I would have confined the white flash to everything "inside" the black bars on the top and bottom. 2. When it got to the vow section and you lowered the music, I think I would have lowered it just a bit earlier. It was just a little abrupt (for me). Likewise, when you brought the music back up, I think I would have waited just a bit longer. 3. There was one scene where the groom was kissing the bride (1:36), where it almost looked as though she didn't want to kiss. Maybe I'm wrong. But I think if I had that clip sitting there I would have left it out unless I had nothing else to put in it's place. Otherwise I thought the video was great in regard to the variety of shots, color and exposure. Can't really see why they wouldn't like it... again, I think you did a great job. Andrew

June 25th, 2008, 09:43 PM	#3
Oren Arieli Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: San Jose, California Posts: 918	Whose head was peaking in at 33 seconds? That was a bit distracting, as well as the issues previously mentioned. Solid work overall. Did they choose the music?

June 26th, 2008, 05:22 AM	#5
Dawn Brennan Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 193	Thanks for the replies. I'll have to check out that flash, because I'm not sure why its flashing the whole screen. It should have just been between the lines... thanks for bringing that to my attention. And I see what you mean about the music. I'll probably just fade it a second or 2 sooner and later at the end. The kissing shot... I'll go back and try to dig up something else. They were a couple with very little emotion all day and when there was emotion, it always looked fake. I think this is a case where it shows through. Oren - they did choose the music. It's a local band (The Clarks) and they wanted to use their music for the entire video. This song was their favorite, but I couldn't find a place to put it, which was the main reason for creating the review. Oh yeah, the head at :33, its gone in the final take. I didn't see it until after I sent them the link and just never had a chance to rerender and fix it online. That was the photographer (one of the 3)... she stood up and blocked my shot, and only moved after I tapped her on the shoulder... but that's a whole nother topic for discussion :) Travis - I definitely agree with you... my main mistake here was to send them the link, but I just love to surprise people, and typically this doesn't backfire. Lesson learned. I don't think my editing style has changed at all really. Maybe things are done a little better than last year, but the overall idea hasn't changed. I think you hit the nail on the head when you say that the couples that pay the least, want the most. Thanks again for taking the time to review it!

June 26th, 2008, 11:51 AM	#9
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Didn't look THAT bad to me, some (many?) people simply aren't comfortable with PDA (public display of affection). Not to mention "the day" can be pretty stressful and not exactly condusive to joy and jubilation (this despite the huge runup to "the event" -perhaps it's hard for "the day" to live up to the hype?). You have to work with what you got, looked OK to me...

June 26th, 2008, 04:59 PM	#14
Kelsey Emuss Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada Posts: 259	Well she's a cold fish isn't she?!?! I think it was cute...good job!

June 26th, 2008, 05:07 PM	#15
Dawn Brennan Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 193	Thanks for the posts. I did reply to her email that we don't do re-edits once they receive the final DVD... without a pretty pricey re-edit fee. Hopefully that will satisfy her question... perhaps not the answer she wanted though. I was pretty happy about the clip, and although she said it was "good", it was followed in the email with "but will we get to review the whole wedding and ask for changes later?". I think this is the type of client that Travis is trying to describe. I almost always send a clip, either a trailer, highlight or something for them to see while we are working. Usually gets them excited and I have never had a problem, especially with this little teaser preview that I send. But for this one particular client, I just have a feeling that making them happy isn't going to necessarily happen, but I'll try my best!