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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old July 17th, 2008, 09:57 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Michael Liebergot View Post
The VF handle Bracket is a very good choice, as is the Delvcam DELVG10801 Handle bracket.

The Delvcam bracket is a bit larger than the VF Gadets Bracket, as it also has teh ability for cable management as well.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...acket_for.html

I have both and prefer the VF Gadgets bracket, only because I don't have the need for cable management, as I use the handle bracket mainly for mounting my large Sony HVL-LBP led light on my camera handle to keep better camera balance.

But for times where I might need cable management like mounting an additional wireless (like you mentioned) or hard drive recorder, then the Delvcam is my choice, so I can keep my cables neat.
I get how the bracket is attached to the handle but how do you attach the wireless receiver to it? I'm using an audio-technica ATW-R100 it has no hotshoe plug.
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Old July 18th, 2008, 09:15 AM   #17
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Hey Michael. Do you have any particular settings for the Zoom H2 when taping a solist at a wedding. We're talking musical instrument here; not sure there is singing by the artist either.
I've been playing with it over past few week and decided to set the ACGi to the "concert" setting but not sure about recording level, 100+?. The H2 will be on a mic stand to the side of her. Also, what's the best way to lavalier mic the groom and where does he put the transmitter; I assume in his pants pocket? You were right, the video tutorial on the Senny was great. I appreciate your thoughts.

Anthony Cipriano
Anthony, I generally place the H2 on a mic stand near to or in the middle (down low since they are sitting) of the musician's (which I prefer).

I will set my H2 to record in 2CH surround mode (dual stereo recoding from both sides of the mic) and generally set my recording levels to around 102 or so and Medium pre amp setting. Always try to make sure that your H2 is set to record to at least 100, as it is wired strangely and the pre amps won't take effect until the levels are set to 100.

I then place the H2 on a mic stand (down low since they are sitting down) and try to place it in the center of the musicians. With one front mics facing one f the musicians and the rear mics facing the others.

I find that this gives me a nice balanced natural recording, for quick setup and capture of chamber music. As I said befire I like to use the H2 for this recording scenereo, because it's simple and I seem to get very good results to mix in post.

I don't like to use the H2 however for loud environments like micing a PA stack at a reception. The reason being that the pres aren't good enough and your audio will clip. And when it clips, the audio actually chirps, so it's almost impossible to clean up. If you set the pres to the low setting, ti works, but the audio gets too muffled. Oh, and BTW, the 1/8 mic and line inputs are not good. So using an external mic or line feed will give you mixed results.

So I prefer to use other methods to record my live audio (Edirol R4 and 3-4 mics, or Marantz PMD620 or Edirol R09, which both have much better onboard pre amps and limiters).

As for using a wireless lav setup.
I clip the receiver to the grooms waistband (on the rear under the vest and jacket). The clip the lav either to his vest, or preferably his tie (if he's wearing a tie and not a bowtie). I clip the lav mic center on his tie about 1/4 of the way down.

By clipping the mic to his tie, you avoid the issues that you might get, such as jacket rustling and such.
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Old July 18th, 2008, 09:21 AM   #18
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I get how the bracket is attached to the handle but how do you attach the wireless receiver to it? I'm using an audio-technica ATW-R100 it has no hotshoe plug.
That's a big thing, as my wireless has the ability to mount via hot shoe.
There must be a box or adapter of some kind that will enable you to mount your AT wireless via threading or cold shoe.

If there is no way to mount the receiver to your camera, except for velcro, then I can't help.

Sorry.
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Old July 19th, 2008, 05:38 AM   #19
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Mount for FX-1 to accomodate wireless mic and boom

Thanks for the suggestions re the H2 and the way to mic the groom. The "rustling" sound of clothing is my biggest fear but placement at the tie level should allay that! I originally thought that placement at the lapel was the mode but that means the groom has to turn to the mic constantly to be recorded. When do you actually "mic" him (before the ceremony)?
As for the Zoom, I've run some tests recording my playing a piano and guitar via a mic stand at 105 and mid level. I've tried the settings at "General", "concert" and "vocal" and really can't discern the difference but probably "concert" would work. As for the other t setting found in the menu, the kind of wave file (mghz), not sure what that should be.
I really like this recorder though. I did notice on play back through my Denon surroundsound receiver that I really had to "crank" up the volume to hear any recording. I guess the preamps on the H2 are not designed to drive sound as player. Oh btw, I bought those brackets from Scott (I expect them to be delivered by Thursday) but last night, I using
a Rode Videomic with a friends Canon XH-1A, I was disturbed by the fact that it picked up all the noise of my handling the camera, the mic being mounted on the accessory bracket.
That is a concern of mine though it must be dealt by all pros as pro cameras have a
this non-shockless mount on them? I assume that once the cam is perched securely on a tripod, the noise issue becomes irrelevent until you happen to adjust something on the camera and then....Michael. How you avoid this issue using the mic mount on your FX-1?
Thanks.

Anthony
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Old July 19th, 2008, 09:18 AM   #20
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Anthony, with my Z1 mic mount and J-Rod, I don't get handling noise form the camera. Especially since I also use the Beyerdynamic EA86 shockmount with the combo.

The pre amps on the H2 work ok as I aid, you just have to avoid very loud environments with it.

BTW I don't use any menu setting on the H2, just the external (H/M/L) pre amp switch on the side. If I need any compression or such, I do it in post. As the onboard limiters ni the menu are not active enough to work.
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Old July 21st, 2008, 01:35 PM   #21
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Bracket For FX-1

Thanks Michael. Have you tried setting the H2 to record only when there's a sound that activates it, rather than leaving it on "record" all during the ceremony? I tried to tinker with mine but the settings re sensitivity are way past my abilities and I feel that I have to be a sound engineer just to understand the numbers! Although, it is a pretty good way to keep both the battery alive and have enough SD space for perhaps the reception? Which leaves me to that...how about plugging your H2 directly into the DJ's mixer board via his 1/4 socket if you get a 1/8 to 1/4 adapter? That way, the sound might not peak which you'll get from putting the device directly in front of the speakers.

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Old July 21st, 2008, 02:00 PM   #22
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Thanks Michael. Have you tried setting the H2 to record only when there's a sound that activates it, rather than leaving it on "record" all during the ceremony? I tried to tinker with mine but the settings re sensitivity are way past my abilities and I feel that I have to be a sound engineer just to understand the numbers! Although, it is a pretty good way to keep both the battery alive and have enough SD space for perhaps the reception? Which leaves me to that...how about plugging your H2 directly into the DJ's mixer board via his 1/4 socket if you get a 1/8 to 1/4 adapter? That way, the sound might not peak which you'll get from putting the device directly in front of the speakers.

Anthony
Nope never tried the sound activation, and honestly have no desire to try it. I wouldn't trust it. I would rather have my unit record for an entire ceremony, and know that I got everything recorded. Rather than not. I use at least a 4GB SD card, so space isn't an issue.

You can plug the H2 into the DJ board, I have done this twice, once worked well, the other was horrible. I don't trust someone else to have to run my equipment, which in essence you are trusting that the DJ won't change his levels or accidentally cut your feed.

Also the 1/8 inputs on the H2 are easy to overload and distort.

In my opinion, H2 was really designed to be a self contained mic recorder. Besides looking like a mic, it was designed with simple, field recording in mind. As you can record 5.1 surround using the built in separate 4 mic capsules, which are surprisingly good for general recoding. But the internal electronics aren't the best, especially the pre amps, which aren't good.

If you have the need for an external mic, then using a lav on someone for voice is ok. but using other mics to record louder audio won't produce good results. Better sticking to the internals, except for very loud, which I say, stick to something else to record with.

And if you are going to be taking a line feed with the H2, then you have better be using an attenuator pad of some sort, to cut down the signal to prevent overload.

Also, I tend to use my recorder audio for my main audio, so I generally try to use an entire audio clip to sync with my video in my NLE.
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Old July 21st, 2008, 04:14 PM   #23
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Sorry to Hijack this thread, but I am interested in buying the Z1 mic holder for my FX1.

I am looking for this XLR to mini Stereo cable for the mic and camcorder.

It has a gold female XLR to stereo 3.5mm input jack and the cable coils neatly.

I have looked in B&H photo, but no success.

If you have an idea where I can order this cable, please post me a link.

Here's a pic;

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/n...100_0642-1.jpg

Regards.
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Old July 21st, 2008, 04:23 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Marco Dias View Post
Sorry to Hijack this thread, but I am interested in buying the Z1 mic holder for my FX1.

I am looking for this XLR to mini Stereo cable for the mic and camcorder.

It has a gold female XLR to stereo 3.5mm input jack and the cable coils neatly.

I have looked in B&H photo, but no success.

If you have an idea where I can order this cable, please post me a link.

Here's a pic;

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/n...100_0642-1.jpg

Regards.
First question, why are you in the need of a stereo mic, are you going to be using a stereo microphone or mono shotgun mic. If it's a mono mic, then you don't want a stereo cable.

I don't know about that particular cable but something to keep in mind, is that this cable is mono not stereo. The shotgun is a mono shotgun mic, and the FX1 will send this signal to both channels.

If you have need of this particular kind of cable, I might suggest trying to contact someone at www.soundprofessionals.com.

I have used them in the past to develop certain cables for my needs that I couldn't find elsewhere. They are excellent.

As for the Z1 mic mount try contacting John Woo on these boards, as he is the one that I have purchased mine from.
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Old July 22nd, 2008, 03:09 AM   #25
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First question, why are you in the need of a stereo mic, are you going to be using a stereo microphone or mono shotgun mic. If it's a mono mic, then you don't want a stereo cable.

I don't know about that particular cable but something to keep in mind, is that this cable is mono not stereo. The shotgun is a mono shotgun mic, and the FX1 will send this signal to both channels.

As for the Z1 mic mount try contacting John Woo on these boards, as he is the one that I have purchased mine from.
Hi, I have contacted John Woo, and I will definetly order the Z1 mic mount from him.

I will be using Z1 mount with my Sennheiser ME 64 and my FX1.

Even though my ME64 is mono, I just prefer using a stereo cable, which splits the signal to my left and right channel.

Thanks for the info...
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Old July 22nd, 2008, 08:40 AM   #26
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Even though my ME64 is mono, I just prefer using a stereo cable, which splits the signal to my left and right channel.

Thanks for the info...
I as under the impression that teh FX1 would split the signal to oth channels accordingly anyway.

This is why I prefer using an XLR adapter, as I regularly take 2 feeds at all events. Usually one wireless (for constant audio either via line form board or wireless handheld mic) and one onboard mic. Then I can also adjust accordingly for each channel.

If I only use one onboard mic then I will use my AT822 stereo mic. It's much better for indoor use than a shotgun mic, as it offers less reflective noise pickup, when shooting indoors.
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Old July 22nd, 2008, 11:20 PM   #27
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Mount for FX-1 to accomodate wireless mic and boom

Michael, thanks for the suggestions re the H2. I'm really excited about using it at this wedding, especially the ceremony and you're right about not leaving the "sound activated" feature of this unit to chance by relying on it. I'll just leave it on all the time. Not sure how the H2 will handle the excessive loud sound coming from the speakers on their own. How far or close to the speakers do you mount the H2? I'd be worried about clipping here so I'm setting the gain to "low." What do you set the sensitivity of your lavs to? I'm really nervous about miking the groom for the first time for fear that the mic won't be able to pick up both him and bride. Tommorrow night is rehearsal and I'm going just to see if a sound system has been set up in this very "bare bones" New England chapel. Also, did you say in a past thread that a XLR box could work with BOTH a 1/8 jacked mic as well as an XLR input say from the Evolution G2? I'm now using the Rode Videomic which has the 1/8. B & H told me that the XLR box would do no good as the Rode would cancel out the Senny due to the
1/8 miniplug. I have a call to the tech people of Beachtek to get details. Also, the Juicedink people indicated to me that the ship date on the model you recommended is sometime in late August, so back-logged are they on orders!

Oh, by the way, tonight I learned what happens when your extended warranty dies out.
The past day or so, I noticed a greenish vertical strip running up the right hand side of my
Pioneer plasma screen tv when the FX-1 was plugged in and on standby mode in recording.
This strip recorded to the tape as well. You really notice this bar in low light and when strong light reflects off the camera. The Sony rep said they could set me up with a local company to repair it but it would cost over $500.00. It's not the heads since the camera is not running at the time but I'm bummed as I'm using this for a wedding Friday. I can get my hands on a Canon XH-A1 though but I'm not sure about its low light abilities and ease of use. Ever use one? Like it?

Anthony
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Old July 23rd, 2008, 07:49 AM   #28
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Michael, thanks for the suggestions re the H2. I'm really excited about using it at this wedding, especially the ceremony and you're right about not leaving the "sound activated" feature of this unit to chance by relying on it. I'll just leave it on all the time. Not sure how the H2 will handle the excessive loud sound coming from the speakers on their own. How far or close to the speakers do you mount the H2? I'd be worried about clipping here so I'm setting the gain to "low." What do you set the sensitivity of your lavs to? I'm really nervous about miking the groom for the first time for fear that the mic won't be able to pick up both him and bride. Tommorrow night is rehearsal and I'm going just to see if a sound system has been set up in this very "bare bones" New England chapel. Also, did you say in a past thread that a XLR box could work with BOTH a 1/8 jacked mic as well as an XLR input say from the Evolution G2? I'm now using the Rode Videomic which has the 1/8. B & H told me that the XLR box would do no good as the Rode would cancel out the Senny due to the
1/8 miniplug. I have a call to the tech people of Beachtek to get details. Also, the Juicedink people indicated to me that the ship date on the model you recommended is sometime in late August, so back-logged are they on orders!

Oh, by the way, tonight I learned what happens when your extended warranty dies out.
The past day or so, I noticed a greenish vertical strip running up the right hand side of my
Pioneer plasma screen tv when the FX-1 was plugged in and on standby mode in recording.
This strip recorded to the tape as well. You really notice this bar in low light and when strong light reflects off the camera. The Sony rep said they could set me up with a local company to repair it but it would cost over $500.00. It's not the heads since the camera is not running at the time but I'm bummed as I'm using this for a wedding Friday. I can get my hands on a Canon XH-A1 though but I'm not sure about its low light abilities and ease of use. Ever use one? Like it?

Anthony
Anthony, first off I normaly place my H2 n a mic stand about 1 foot away from the speakers. If you are micing loud speakers, then you definitely want the pre amps set to low. Now that being said, I mentioned that I don't like using the H2 to mic loud situations like a Djs PA stack, because if you use the Medium pres, the sound most likely will clip, and it doesn't clip like most audio. The Hz2 will develop an electrical chirping noise in the audio, that can't be removed.

So that means that you are stuck using the low pre amp, which produces audio on the muddier sounding side. Better than you can most likely get with a shotgun mic on camera, but not great for my taste. Which is why I use other more expensive alternatives instead.

As for micing a groom, I would say medium setting at a level of around 100-106. I don't use the H2 with lav mic for vocals, but rather wireless or my Edirol R09 or Marantz PMD620. The reason being that I don't like the H2s 1/8 mic or line inputs, as they are noisy. Also I would rather use my H2 for micing musicians, using it's built in mics, as this is what it does best (record audio using it's internal mics, as long as they aren't very loud, like over ramped DJ systems).

Now for you last question, B&H is correct. As soon as you plug in the Rode Videomic, your wireless audio will not function.
With XLR adapter boxes, it's meant that you use 2 XLR mono inputs. This is why I didn't recommend the Rod Videomic, but rather a Rode NTG2 or equivalent. As these are pro mono shotgun style mics, that can feed your camera either XLR, or with the proper (XLR to 1/8 cable if going straight to camera with no XLR box). The Rode Videomic is a pre wired 1/8 input menat to be fed into consumer cameras, via 1/8 mic input.

XLR adapter boxes, are more pro gear, as they add professional balanced XLR inputs t cameras that don't have that ability. The XLR adapter plugs into your 1/8 camera mic port, giving your camera the ability to use balanced XLR inputs, for wireless or mics.

The A1 is about equal to the FX1 in low light. It's an excellent camera, but it's not a pull out of the box and shoot camera like the Sony' are. It has very extensive (and excellent) picture profile settings that are very in depth, and can take a bit to learn.
The cool thing though is that you can preload custom presets into the A1 using an Sd card. The are many custom profiles in the Canon A1 section of this site. Several for low light ability. This can be a time saver.
The A1 is no different than any other pro camera in how it operates, if you run in manual. But like any camera, you should get to know how to operate it well before, you get in the field with it. So at this late stage, I don't think that it's a good idea to try to learn the picture profiles and take it out for a paid job.
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Old July 23rd, 2008, 08:02 PM   #29
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Audio Bracket For FX-1

You're SO RIGHT. Michael about using an untested camera at a paid gig! No, I'm really liking the FX-1 now even if it doesn't have the XLR features of its Z1 brother. So, I agree, use what you know best and I've had the pleasure of taping with it for over 3 years. Given the fact that a new Sony is coming out that has low light equivelancy to the PD170 and it's starting price is over $7K, I'm sticking with mine until the next technological advance is affordable. Speaking of which...I've notice of late a distinct color band (green with purple borders) running vertically to the right of the screen on standby mode and playback of tapes. Not sure what this is but it's being recorded too. You see it when in low light conditions and in bright bulb-lit areas. I called Sony and they told me that the unit needed to be sent in for servicing at a cost of over $500.00. That's a quarter of the price of a used FX-1. They recommended some service center here in Connecticut. Right now, I think I can live with the video noise for now but wonder if this isn't some harbringer of worse things to come for this camera....

Oh, I have the Sennheisser G2 but, given the fact that I don't have an XLR box right now, I'll be plugging it into the 1/8 jack and then plugging the Videomic in when I need the ambient sound at the chapel. It's clunky but I think it will work, for now. The JuiceDink is on back order for August, by the way.

Happy taping!

Anthony
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