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Wedding / Event Videography Techniques
Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old September 3rd, 2008, 09:06 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Rick Steele View Post
Dump the RODE videomic I saw on your list. You'll never use a shotgun for weddings (successfully).
That's interesting to hear this as I was planning to buy one on my xh-a1 because I don't like the sound from the internal mic, why is this and what do you suggest then to get better audio from a reception at a wedding f.i. (Beside the wireless mics and a zoom h4 I allready use but those are for very specific purposes.)
Would a Rode SVM Stereo Video Microphone be a better all-round choice then?
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Old September 3rd, 2008, 09:11 AM   #17
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if you're shooting a reception with a shotgun, when you turn away from you source,
you will hear a distinct change in sound. I find the onboard mics don't do that. I 2nd a Zoom H2 or H4. Can't beat it for $200 (H2)
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Old September 3rd, 2008, 09:47 AM   #18
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if you're shooting a reception with a shotgun, when you turn away from you source,
you will hear a distinct change in sound. I find the onboard mics don't do that. I 2nd a Zoom H2 or H4. Can't beat it for $200 (H2)
the onboard mic from my older vx2100 was also much better then my xh-a1 and the panasonic dvx100 I have now so I think you need to take an extra (better) mic into consideration which will record audio every time you record and not continuously like the zooms do. These recorders are perfect for ambient sound but only as an external recorder.
In that case you almost need a shotgun mic to pick up the voices a bit better in church for persons were you didn't manage to attach a wireless mic and a Rode SVM Stereo Video Microphone for the ambient sound at receptions?
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Old September 3rd, 2008, 09:56 AM   #19
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crap, if you use a wireless on a band's or DJ's soundboard with the Sony cams, you HAVE to use XLR on both, i think the Canon works the same way. In that case, you will need a shotgun on your camera to record ambient sound as well as a mic/line input. You can also feed the input of your zoom to a wireless transmitter as well. Multiple audio backups are a must!
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Old September 11th, 2008, 02:44 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Scott Hayes View Post
crap, if you use a wireless on a band's or DJ's soundboard with the Sony cams, you HAVE to use XLR on both, i think the Canon works the same way. In that case, you will need a shotgun on your camera to record ambient sound as well as a mic/line input. You can also feed the input of your zoom to a wireless transmitter as well. Multiple audio backups are a must!
You are correct, once you go to XLR the built-in mic is disabled. I only use the on-camera mic as a backup and for ambient sound (people sounds during the dancing).
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Old September 11th, 2008, 03:23 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Scott Hayes View Post
crap, if you use a wireless on a band's or DJ's soundboard with the Sony cams, you HAVE to use XLR on both, i think the Canon works the same way. In that case, you will need a shotgun on your camera to record ambient sound as well as a mic/line input. You can also feed the input of your zoom to a wireless transmitter as well. Multiple audio backups are a must!
I agree with Scott 100%...Great advice there.

Simply use one of your recorders to record your sound source, like mic the PA stack at a 80 degree angle between the tweeter and woofer, then send a wireless feed from the recorders line out to your camera, for consistent backup/sync audio. then use your onboard mic for ambient crowd audio.

You now have the option of either using your recorders audio for main audio or backup. I prefer to use my recorder audio for main audio. Then use the onbaord mic audio on a separate track in my NLE for ambiance.

Of course I have many recorders taht I use to capture audio. My favorite method being to use an Edirol R-44 (4-track SD recorder) and use 2 mics to mic the PA stack (mic woofer and tweeter separately gives me nice full live sound), and also use either the onbaord mics of AT822 stereo mic (facing towards crowd) in channels 3-4 for ambient audio. I then use most of this this perfectly synced audio and mix it in my NLE in post.

But at your stage in the game, the R-44 would be overkill and an added expense that you don't need, since you already have 2 recorders already.

BTW, another method could be to use a wireless mic and mic the PA stack and send this to your camera, and also mount one of your recorders to the same mic stand and record your audio that way. Which ever is easier, you will get good results and save yourself a lot of audio headaches in post.
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Old September 11th, 2008, 03:28 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Steve Sobodos View Post
You are correct, once you go to XLR the built-in mic is disabled. I only use the on-camera mic as a backup and for ambient sound (people sounds during the dancing).
Just a quick note on this statement, whcih is 100% true. As this is the case with practically all cameras and onboard mics and XLR input.

But a neat thing of note on the new upcoming Sony Z5U, is that you can plug one input into an XLR and still use the onbaord mic. So you could have your wireless in XLR1 and still use the onboard mic for channel 2. Kind of cool.

Sorry to get off track.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 07:22 AM   #23
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While I agree iRivers are inexpensive great for ease of setup they do have drawbacks. Sync unfortunatly is "not" perfect on them. If you have a longer ceremony you'll notice a small drift in sync after the 30 minute mark. After an hour it's easily audible. It'll first begin to start sounding like a mild flanging (echoing) sound. Keep in mind you'll have to compare it to another audio source (onboard mic) to identify it. In other words you may not notice a sync issue simply by reading lips in the video.

Another issue is you cannot adjust levels on the fly. I often adjust the levels manually during the ceremony- ESPECIALLY during the vows. The bride, almost without fail, is always softer than the groom- usually due to the mic being placed on the groom.

I prefer using 2, 3, or even 4 wireless systems. I typically run two right into my main cam an another into my second cam operator's. I put one mic on the groom, one on the officiant, and one on the lecturn. I'll use another wireless if there is a musician. Typically I'll use a shotgun with an XLR butt-plug transmitter rather than using the small diaphram of a lapel mic to capture something potentially loud like musicians.

Of course everything has it's strengths and weaknesses. Wireless runs the risk of having problems with transmition. Granted, knock on wood, the Sony units I have are true diversity and have never had a problem. Even with my wireless units I own 3 iRiver units as well. Sometimes you'll end up with churches that have two lecturns... AND musicians. It's an easy way to mic all the additional spots without breaking the bank (and/or running out of inputs on your cams) with wireless units. Then again I could always utilize a mixer....hmmmm.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 08:31 AM   #24
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Wireless runs the risk of having problems with transmition. Granted, knock on wood, the Sony units I have are true diversity and have never had a problem.

Hey Glen, which Sony wireless unit do you own, is it the Sony UWP-V6 (Sony | UWP-V6 Wireless Plug-in & Lavalier | UWPV6/3032 | B&H)
If you do how do you like it.

I currently use a pair of Samson Micro32 units (diversity as well),a nd although they are cheaply made (compared to the Sennheiser) they have performed flawlessly for me. But I am looking to get rid of them in the coming months, as the FCC ruling banning anything in the 700mhz and above range has me concerned, as the Samson broadcasts on the 800mhz band.

So I have narrowed it down to the Sennhesier G2 and Sony UWP-V6. But Sennhesier has teh new G3 coming out sometime towards the end of the year, but I like the fact that the Sony is true diversity and has a solid metal build.

I'm on the fence and debating between going wireless or staying all direct hard line feed to my camera (for interviews), and digital audio recorders (Edirol R-44, Marantz PMD620, Edirol R09 etc.) fed with line, and mic feeds. Then just sync in post, which I mainly do already.

Oh and BTW, I agree on the iRivers. They aren't the most reliable, but most of all videographers now should be looking for another alternative to the iRivers, as they have been off the market for 4 years now, and even refurbished units are hard to come by. There are so many great ways for us to capture audio now, and it seems each month a manufacturer releases some new small recorder that can produce great results for what our needs are.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 09:07 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Michael Liebergot View Post
Wireless runs the risk of having problems with transmition. Granted, knock on wood, the Sony units I have are true diversity and have never had a problem.

Hey Glen, which Sony wireless unit do you own, is it the Sony UWP-V6 (Sony | UWP-V6 Wireless Plug-in & Lavalier | UWPV6/3032 | B&H)
If you do how do you like it.
I just checked it out. I think what i have (UWP-C1) isn't sold any more. These new units look great though! Sony finally got around to using Metal Casing! I bought 2 UWP-C1 systems and the plug-in transmitter separately.

I currently use a pair of Samson Micro32 units (diversity as well),a nd although they are cheaply made (compared to the Sennheiser) they have performed flawlessly for me. But I am looking to get rid of them in the coming months, as the FCC ruling banning anything in the 700mhz and above range has me concerned, as the Samson broadcasts on the 800mhz band.

So I have narrowed it down to the Sennhesier G2 and Sony UWP-V6. But Sennhesier has teh new G3 coming out sometime towards the end of the year, but I like the fact that the Sony is true diversity and has a solid metal build.
Ditto to that- like I said, this solid metal build is something new. My old plastic units are now discontinued apparently: Sony | UWP-C1 (66) True Diversity Wireless | UWP-C1/6668 | B&H

I'm on the fence and debating between going wireless or staying all direct hard line feed to my camera (for interviews),
For internviews I use a boom with a direct (XLR) input to the cam. It's yeilded the best audio EVER for me.

and digital audio recorders (Edirol R-44, Marantz PMD620, Edirol R09 etc.) fed with line, and mic feeds. Then just sync in post, which I mainly do already.
I've never had any experience with solid state audio recorders OTHER than my cheap little iRivers.

Oh and BTW, I agree on the iRivers. They aren't the most reliable, but most of all videographers now should be looking for another alternative to the iRivers, as they have been off the market for 4 years now, and even refurbished units are hard to come by. There are so many great ways for us to capture audio now, and it seems each month a manufacturer releases some new small recorder that can produce great results for what our needs are.
Yeah I'm a bit worried about the longevity of my iRivers. They've been in use many seasons now (even though I primarily use Wireless)- but I suppose if they go it's a good excuse to invest in a much higher quality recorder that was MADE to do this sort of thing. I'm sure the folks at iRiver didn't have Event Videographers in mind when they designed their 760/80 series "MP3" players. lol
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Old September 13th, 2008, 12:23 PM   #26
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the onboard mic from my older vx2100 was also much better then my xh-a1 and the panasonic dvx100 I have now so I think you need to take an extra (better) mic into consideration which will record audio every time you record and not continuously like the zooms do. These recorders are perfect for ambient sound but only as an external recorder.
In that case you almost need a shotgun mic to pick up the voices a bit better in church for persons were you didn't manage to attach a wireless mic and a Rode SVM Stereo Video Microphone for the ambient sound at receptions?
The shotgun absolutely saved my ass on my big wedding from April. The audio tech guy was brand spanking newand barely could find the headphone jack (I wish I was joking). That feed from house sound was the noisiest I've ever heard with high freq hissing, mic levels muted after a person started speaking, etc, etc. My AT897 shotgun literally saved many shots because I had some audio of what was going on. Also, the house sound mic'ed the singers but not the piano, so I had to combine sources from the shotgun audio from the piano (and some singer) with the house sound of the singer.

It is always good to have a backup and while on board mics are great for their ability to catch sound in all directions, at weddings you do not want sound from all directions. Onboard mics also pick up every single rustle, tap, click, and bump you make against the body of the camera. In my opinion that makes them nearly useless unless you have a LANC to keep your hands off the camera body while operating it.

So my comment being, get a shotgun they are great backups, know when to use them, and when to use something else. And get a Beachtec ot similar on camera mixer so you can run the shotgun & the wireless mic (if you go with a G2). Otherwise if you use non-wireless lavs (like with the iRiver solution) you won't need the on cam mixer.
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Old September 13th, 2008, 03:03 PM   #27
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My AT897 shotgun literally saved many shots because I had some audio of what was going on.
I ordered an AT897 a few days ago so I hope that that one together with my 2 irivers and my zoomh4 should cover all the basics. I am very pleased with the irivers though, managed to buy the last ones in a Belgian store as newer models were considerably bigger. I read about them not being so reliable but until now (knock on wood) the have served me well. Even if you can't adust audio levels during recording on them I found that raising the gain in post is no problem, something I need to do to capture the sound from the bride a bit better. Even up to +20 gain the sound stays cleaner then on the onboard mic of the camera.
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Old September 13th, 2008, 05:16 PM   #28
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Hi Noa,

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Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
...I found that raising the gain in post is no problem, something I need to do to capture the sound from the bride a bit better.
Where do you position the lav mic on the groom? Putting it as low as possible on the groom may help to even out the level of the vows between the bride and groom.
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Old September 13th, 2008, 08:13 PM   #29
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Can someone specify what iriver model they use and what set-up works for them. I'm interested in looking at this versus a G2.
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Old September 14th, 2008, 01:04 AM   #30
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the 7xx and 8xx series work. if you are serious in this business, don't rely on mp3
recorders like irivers. i use them, and have gotten burned plenty of times. GET A GOOD WIRELESS SYSTEM. spend the money on a sennheiser G2, you wont regret it.
as far as recorders go, i highly reccomend a zoom H2, it has meters, and gain control.
you can check your levels as you record and adjust on the fly. dont be cheap when it comes to audio.
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