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Old November 13th, 2008, 11:14 AM   #16
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Richard gave the textbook answer on the uses of cross dissolves. That's how it's taught in editing classes boys & girls.
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Old November 13th, 2008, 01:43 PM   #17
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IMO, whilst dissloves are used to show a movement in time, I also believe they can be used to give a dreamy effect which can suit a wedding film!

Thats not to say they should be encouraged, but it's not so black & white!

Straight cuts are the way to go but can also jar depending on when the cut was made and at what time if music is present.



Just my thoughts...
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Old November 13th, 2008, 01:59 PM   #18
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whoops, i gave a sort of general opinion of how/when to use cross dissolves, but left of all those little creative uses for wedding films :P
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Old November 13th, 2008, 02:00 PM   #19
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I go by the rule of - if you notice a transition upon viewing, it's wrong.
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Old November 13th, 2008, 02:06 PM   #20
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Now we just need to work on the curse of the slow motion and the curse of the black&white....

[ :-) smiley - but not much! ]

I have to agree with Denise - do you notice the slomo and B&W? Bet you do. Oh for heaven's sake, here we go again with a "romantic" wedding video...
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Old November 13th, 2008, 02:10 PM   #21
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whoops, i gave a sort of general opinion of how/when to use cross dissolves, but left of all those little creative uses for wedding films :P

Oh dear!
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Old November 13th, 2008, 02:47 PM   #22
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Martin, you call them curses but listen here. I had a bride and groom round here 3 days ago just weak-kneed at how good they looked on their wedding film. And what did they mention? What did they drag the postman in to see? What does his mum tell everyone about?

Why, the b & w, slo-mo, cross dissolved montage.

It's all too easy for us to get blasé and sneer at these clichés. They can seem over-done and old hat to us, but to a young couple who've never been filmed (properly) before, they put them up there with the Hollywood set.

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Old November 13th, 2008, 03:08 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick View Post
Martin, you call them curses but listen here. I had a bride and groom round here 3 days ago just weak-kneed at how good they looked on their wedding film. And what did they mention? What did they drag the postman in to see? What does his mum tell everyone about?

Why, the b & w, slo-mo, cross dissolved montage.

It's all too easy for us to get blasé and sneer at these clichés. They can seem over-done and old hat to us, but to a young couple who've never been filmed (properly) before, they put them up there with the Hollywood set.

tom.
I completely agree, Tom.

What we do is a balancing act between pushing ourselves creatively as videographers and providing a product that the client likes. My philosophy is to try and do everything with a purpose.
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Old November 13th, 2008, 03:22 PM   #24
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OK, of course I accept that many couples love such effects. My personal preferences are irrelevant.

I must just comment that you NEVER (OK: extremely rarely) see the use of such effects in professionally-made films or television programmes when they want to create a romantic atmosphere.

Any anyway, there is a market of couples who aren't - for want of a better word - "soppy" like that.
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Old November 13th, 2008, 03:28 PM   #25
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I completely agree, Tom.

What we do is a balancing act between pushing ourselves creatively as videographers and providing a product that the client likes. My philosophy is to try and do everything with a purpose.


........................................................

Totally agree with everything you say Travis.....

Martin, if what you are doing is working for you, ie,bringing in the clients, then great! continue to do what you are doing.

There is room for all types of artistic creativity in this industry, why be so hard on those that don't fit into your vision?
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Old November 13th, 2008, 03:33 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick View Post
It's all too easy for us to get blasé and sneer at these clichés. They can seem over-done and old hat to us, but to a young couple who've never been filmed (properly) before, they put them up there with the Hollywood set.
Hey Tom,

Point taken, but maybe they would be even MORE amazed at the emotion created by a real story-driven montage supported by well thought out and executed shots. That's more Hollywood than a bunch of dissolves, which barely exist in Hollywood production.

I use dissolves as much as some, less than others, who knows. But sometimes I feel they are an easy cop out when it's too hard to push the story with actual editing craft.

This is not meant to be a criticism of anyone's style here. It's a feeling I struggle with in my own work.
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Old November 13th, 2008, 03:40 PM   #27
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My intention here (which is obviously failing!) is not be hard on anyone, rather to "up the game" of the entire wedding video industry.

I hear repeatedly from potential customers: "Oh, I don't want a video - all that black and white soppy mush and slush" and yet all I hear on these boards from we suppliers is that "B&W and slomo are great" and everybody here, whilst continually breathing each other's air, is telling everybody else how wonderful their approach is.

The next thread then bemoans the fact that 99% of brides have a photographer and only 10% (whatever) have a videographer, and wonders why.

I'm not claiming to have the answer to that, but I'm simply saying maybe an alternative to this very, VERY common dissolved/slomo/B&W approach might help us collectively appeal to a wider audience, which is what we all need.

I see so many photographers who clearly earn more than I do, from less work, and I wonder why their market allows them to do this.
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Old November 13th, 2008, 03:56 PM   #28
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Hi Martin,

I can see where you are coming from, and if the WHOLE wedding dvd was indeed slo mo, black and white, then yes this is not good.

If however throughout the whole length of the DVD their are a few clips of this nature, then I personally don't have a problem.

I tend to mix my footage, making it extremely upbeat in places, and slower in others, using live sound etc. I personally believe variety is good.

Now if it was all live sound, with no backing musical tracks, completely fixed on tripods throughout the whole production I would imagine brides being slightly unimpressed by this!

This is to me the OTHER extreme.

But we are all different, and we will all earn a living or not dependant on what we can provide.

Cheers.
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Old November 13th, 2008, 04:29 PM   #29
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Blimey....this thread got moving!

We have a VAST pallette of tools and techniques at our disposal.

I was just VERY aware that I kept going back to the same tried and trusted cross dissolve.

A little bit of everything in moderation is good for you.

Just to answer a few of the questions.

I use Canon XH-A1's with the Vivid preset and a low light one from some german guy.

Titling was just a home brew done with Vegas and keyframes.

Blur pan transition is from New Blue.

The groom out of the Bentley dissolve shot was indeed a stroke of sheer brilliance (not really...just a lucky edit).

Cheers

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Old November 13th, 2008, 10:21 PM   #30
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I try to avoid the dissolve if at all possible but I always let the music dictate the transition that will work with it...
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