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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old November 23rd, 2008, 02:18 AM   #1
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Cant decide which super 8 camera to buy

Hey Guys

I don't want to spend a fortune and i don't want rubbish

I have been looking at the canon 814xls and 1014xls and nikon R10 but they are expensive

what can i get for around $200

I would love to incorporate the footage into my work

and do they shoot widescreen

thanks

Rob
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Old November 23rd, 2008, 04:33 AM   #2
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Just curious, but why on earth go to the cost and hassle of running a completely different camera format when you can pretty much replicate the Super-8 look digitally in post? Easy enough to add weave, instability at splices, grain, progressive scan, emulsion damage and anything else that takes your fancy.

Yes, any Super-8 can shoot wide-screen, and of any aspect ratio you choose. There are anamorphics from 1.33:1 up to 2:1. Or you can simply mask down the frame of course.

I wouldn't bother with the S versions as you can't buy pre-striped film any more. The R10 is a goodie, as too is the Canon 1014E. This will offer you proper 60fps slo-mo that the 814E can't match, and allow you to shoot multiple exposures when you rewind the film.

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Old November 23rd, 2008, 05:28 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Robert Bec View Post
what can i get for around $200 and do they shoot widescreen
Rob,

Since film is expensive, I recommend getting the best refurbished model for your budget instead of trying to purchase a higher-end model at that price off ebay.

I recommend the Canon Auto Zoom 518 for $250 here at Du-All Camera (click on 'cameras' in the upper left) or the one right below it on the page, the 518 SV.

As far as shooting widescreen, I've never done it but Joe Simon (who frequents this board) has performed an HD transfer with Cinelicious and the footage looked great!

You're going to lose resolution transferring to widescreen, and the Cinelicious web site has a nice chart that explains how much right here.

Good luck!

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Old November 23rd, 2008, 06:08 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Bec View Post
I don't want to spend a fortune and i don't want rubbish I have been looking at the canon 814xls and 1014xls and nikon R10 but they are expensive
what can i get for around $200 Rob
For around $200 you will get rubbish. I suspect if you are only willing to spend $200 on the camera that you are not nearly as committed to the idea as you will need to be.

I too looked into Super 8 much as you are talking about it. Among the things I learned:

It is expensive and complicated.

In my market there are few that will pay for it.

Shooting Super 8 properly is extremely difficult and will take months if not years to master. If you are willing to learn a whole new art form, go for it. if you are thinking you just want to shoot a little here and there and mix it in with your current work, I don't think it is feasible, but I could be wrong.

I disagree with Tom about replicating Super 8. I don't think top-notch super 8 movies can be replicated using digital means. And if I'm wrong and it can be, it would be criminal and wouldn't be fair.

I remember the first great wedding video I saw done in Super 8. I was devastated with it's beauty. In the hands of an experienced shooter it is amazing.
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Old November 23rd, 2008, 07:31 PM   #5
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I think getting your camera from a reputable company is the best thing to do as Chris has suggested. You might also look at Home - Spectra Film & Video. Doesn't look like they have many currently available right now. I purchased my first Super 8 on Ebay (814xl) for a little over $200 but I also asked LOTS of questions. They had several critical photos that helped too.
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Old November 23rd, 2008, 08:37 PM   #6
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what about this model

Canon 514 XL-S Super 8 mm film camera cine 24fps 8mm - eBay Movie Cameras, Vintage Cameras, Vintage Photography, Photography. (end time 24-Nov-08 18:55:03 AEDST)
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Old November 23rd, 2008, 11:27 PM   #7
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Very plastic-y - not as solid and reliable as the others that have been mentioned in this thread.

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Old November 23rd, 2008, 11:53 PM   #8
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I have one more

Canon 814 Professional Super 8 Motion Picture Camera - eBay By Type, Cameras, Vintage Movie Photography, Cameras Photo. (end time 26-Nov-08 04:41:02 AEDST)
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Old November 24th, 2008, 01:20 AM   #9
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Ok...

I've done some searching around on google, and I'm missing something. Why would you want to shoot a wedding on a super-8??? All the footage I have come across has been blurry with flat color, and often harsh vignetting.

Will someone please point me to some super-8 footage that will help me understand why I would even consider this format for non-repeatable events?

Thanks!
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Old November 24th, 2008, 02:54 AM   #10
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All the footage I have come across has been blurry with flat color, and often harsh vignetting.
Super-8 cameras from Leica, Minolta, Beaulieu, Canon and Nikon produce the most wonderful footage Chris. My Kodachrome 40 films from 35 years ago look like they were shot yesterday. Sharp, bright, no vignetting and true slo-mo, none of this video interpolation nonsense.

If you can afford a flying spot transfer the results on HDV show what each and every frame of Kodachrome holds. The frame size of 5.7 x 4.2 mm is just slightly shy of the EX1's " chip, and I have Cibachrome prints from single frames that even now wow the audience.

Super-8 cameras were remarkably mechanical things, and as such continue to work long after the camcorder has breathed its last. My 1014E still whirrs happily. It has full manual control of the focus, iris, shutter speeds and even white balance (with the in-built A/D filter). It's a thing of beauty. And better than a lot of modern camcorders it has a non-ramping 10x f/1.4 lens.

I did smile at Jeff's line saying, '... wrong and it can be, it would be criminal and wouldn't be fair.' I know what he means, and a lot of that has to do with the fact that most Super-8 films were shot at 18fps. However we digitally manipulate todays 25fps PAL footage, that slow rate of progressive scan and 54 Hz replay is hard to replicate.

tom.
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Old November 24th, 2008, 08:42 AM   #11
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I don't think there are any narrow rules for shooting Super 8, like anything else we use, it's another brush for our palette and how we decide to use that brush is up to the artist. You don't need to spend a ton of money on a Bolex or Beaulieu, a $100 camera may work fine, it just depends on what you're going for.

Some companies do an amazing job shoot really slick beautiful Super 8. Check out Paper Tape Films - Super 8mm Wedding Films - Wedding Cinematography to name one company that's doing it amazingly well.

Other companies are using cheaper cameras to shoot grainy, high contrast broll to cut in with their HD video. That's more the approach we've been taking.

What I like about Super 8 is that the texture contrasts with the slicker, saturated color of HD or HDV. Super 8 conveys a sort of timelessness that many still equate with the home movies of our youth (or our parents). For, me it captures the French New Wave look of filmmakers like Francois Truffaut. It has an inherent romantic feel that I like.

And, (IMHO) while video can be treated through After Effects and other things to simulate the look, it doesn't really look exactly the same as the real thing.
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Old November 25th, 2008, 08:50 PM   #12
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Good camera. Sounds safe. 14 day guarantee if not satisfied, so that's no good - not enough time to get film back to know if it's really working.

jones
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Old November 25th, 2008, 10:24 PM   #13
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Good camera. Sounds safe. 14 day guarantee if not satisfied, so that's no good - not enough time to get film back to know if it's really working.

jones
So where would be the safest place to buy a super 8 camera from i guess ebay is always a risk
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Old November 26th, 2008, 02:30 AM   #14
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Your neighbourhood probably has a Super-8 camera in every second house. Put up a 'wanted' ad in the sweet shop window.
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Old November 26th, 2008, 08:24 AM   #15
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Brides looking for 8mm Weddings

I got an email from the Bridal Network, they are experiencing a lot of search for 8mm wedding shoots lately and would like to get an article from a videographer who shoots on 8mm. What the brides need to know about 8mm, etc, etc.If anyone is interested I can give you their email address.
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