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Old December 18th, 2008, 11:03 AM   #31
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The Solution?

This could be the Solution for use of copy right music

https://www.zoomlicense.com/

I agree with Ethan DUCK. lol
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Old December 18th, 2008, 11:36 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Stelios Christofides View Post
You know guys, no composer, singer or musician is going to go bankrupt just because you use his music in one wedding DVD; on the other hand we do him a favour using his music on our wedding videos. I never worry about these "copyright" thing when I put music on my videos.

Stelios
And what about your ethical obligation to a fellow creative professional to respect the sanctity of his labour? You make your living creating video, they make their living creating music. Neither of you earn a living if you don't get paid for your work by those who use it. Would a broadcast network who aired one of your tapes in a commercial that made them money without offering you payment or credit be doing you a favour? Do not unto others as you would not want them to do to you. Is it okay to steal a car just because the dealer won't go bankrupt from only one theft?
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Old December 18th, 2008, 01:02 PM   #33
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Steve
You are right what you are saying, but the main problem with the music industry, is not me buying one cd and using one track of this cd for a wedding video; the problem is for the thousands or millions of illegal downloads who pay nothing . These are the guys that the music industry is worried about.

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Old December 18th, 2008, 05:26 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Stelios Christofides View Post
Steve
You are right what you are saying, but the main problem with the music industry, is not me buying one cd and using one track of this cd for a wedding video; the problem is for the thousands or millions of illegal downloads who pay nothing . These are the guys that the music industry is worried about.

Stelios
As a mayor of New York once said, if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. You're no different from the downloaders....correction, you're no different from one of the people who POST to make the tunes available for download, far more serious than merely doiwnloading.
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Old December 19th, 2008, 09:30 AM   #35
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OK Steve if you put it that way, I suppose you are right. It's just what I thought about it but you convinced me that I was wrong and I apologise for insinuating that it's right to use other people work without paying for it. Sorry again for that. and Jeff it was stupid for me putting these crazy ideas on this board in any case. It won't happen again.

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Old December 19th, 2008, 10:28 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Stelios Christofides View Post
Steve
You are right what you are saying, but the main problem with the music industry, is not me buying one cd and using one track of this cd for a wedding video; the problem is for the thousands or millions of illegal downloads who pay nothing . These are the guys that the music industry is worried about.

Stelios
and of course I just noticed that you are NOT posting from the US. so you have an entirely different set of national rules which, in most cases, work in your favor. Licensing music for use in video productions tends to be easier pretty much anywhere outside of the US, thanks to us living under the rules written by the music industry for the music industry's benefit.
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Old December 19th, 2008, 11:34 AM   #37
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Good point Jason. Stelios you have to remember here in the US they have taken houswives and teenagers to court and fined them huge sums of money for downloading music, as Jason alludes to.

I believe it is only a matter of time before the video world gets hit. the music companies are not having it good now...the artists may be doing fine, as you say, but the music companies are having a very tough time.

Last edited by Jeff Harper; December 19th, 2008 at 03:09 PM.
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Old December 19th, 2008, 02:27 PM   #38
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I've been following this subject very closely since it was posted. I always do my best to follow by the rules, but wow... It's sometimes hard to do.
Anyways, what about using a song from a karaoke website? A lot of the songs that you can purchase have been redone by other artist's and even include light vocals. Would this still be wrong to use. Or maybe raise less eyebrows then the original tracks?
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Old December 19th, 2008, 04:04 PM   #39
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In my opinion, it would be beneficial for both sides to figure out a way to use a blanket policy that would cover video production companies, especially those who specialize in weddings. I know the logistics are a nightmare, but if you could pay a fee of say $2,000 - $5,000 a year for a blanket policy and be legally covered to use the music your clients actually want in their videos, it would be worth it. You could cover the expense with one wedding video.

Perhaps there would be some criteria you would have to meet, such as gross sales would have to be under $500,000 and if they go above you have to pay a higher fee or something to that effect.

I've never felt right about using copyright music on a video that you are getting paid to do. But like many others, I have felt the need to do it to keep clients happy. If the music industry decides to clean house at some point and start suing everyone think of all the companies that could end up in their crosshairs. Will they do this, maybe not. Just depends on how desperate they are to get additional revenue streams.

But as artists, it does reflect poorly on us when we do it. Think of it this way. If you found out a band had used some footage you shot in one of their music videos, and they didn't offer to pay you for it or even acknowledge it is your footage, you'd be upset. It's a tricky issue.
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Old December 19th, 2008, 04:08 PM   #40
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In my opinion, it would be beneficial for both sides to figure out a way to use a blanket policy that would cover video production companies, especially those who specialize in weddings. I know the logistics are a nightmare, but if you could pay a fee of say $2,000 - $5,000 a year for a blanket policy and be legally covered to use the music your clients actually want in their videos, it would be worth it. You could cover the expense with one wedding video.

Perhaps there would be some criteria you would have to meet, such as gross sales would have to be under $500,000 and if they go above you have to pay a higher fee or something to that effect.

I've never felt right about using copyright music on a video that you are getting paid to do. But like many others, I have felt the need to do it to keep clients happy. If the music industry decides to clean house at some point and start suing everyone think of all the companies that could end up in their crosshairs. Will they do this, maybe not. Just depends on how desperate they are to get additional revenue streams.

But as artists, it does reflect poorly on us when we do it. Think of it this way. If you found out a band had used some footage you shot in one of their music videos, and they didn't offer to pay you for it or even acknowledge it is your footage, you'd be upset. It's a tricky issue.
I feel exactly the same way, even down to the payment policy you laid out, but was too lazy to type everything out. Thanks for articulating it for me.
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Old December 19th, 2008, 05:37 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Stephen J. Williams View Post
I've been following this subject very closely since it was posted. I always do my best to follow by the rules, but wow... It's sometimes hard to do.
Anyways, what about using a song from a karaoke website? A lot of the songs that you can purchase have been redone by other artist's and even include light vocals. Would this still be wrong to use. Or maybe raise less eyebrows then the original tracks?
Yes, it would be just as much a problem as the original. It is perfectly legal to record a cover of a song once it has been released by another artist, of course with payment of the proper licensing & royalty fees. The Harry Fox Agency in New York is the primary licensing agent in the US and their website is a wealth of information on the matter of mechanical and compulsary licensing. The music is still covered by the original copyrights and you're still required to get the same synch licenses from the publisher to use it in your video production - the fact that a cover has been recorded by other than the original artist doesn't change that. Remember that the music - meaning the words and musical notes - has one set of copyrights and a recording of a song has an additional set of copyrights. If you want to use the words and music to "My Heart Will Go On" you must obtain a license from that copyright owner, usually the publisher. But that DOES NOT give you the right to use an existing recording of it, only to use the words and music. If you were recording it yourself you'd be good to go. But if you want to use Celine Dion's recording of it, you must ALSO get a master use license from the record label that owns the copyright to that specific recording. So you use your karaoke version legally, you need to get a synch license to the music from its publisher and a master use license to the specific recording from the whoever owns the copyright to the recording on the karaoke site.

I agree with the other posters that it should be possible for small users such as wedding and corporate videographers, low-budget indy filmmakers, documentary producers acting in the general public interest, etc, to have access to some sort of affordable rights management provisions in the law so as to allow the use of music they need. For now, the legal and financial requirements to use music in a video are the same whether you're Joe's Wedding Video Emporium over in West Bugtussle or Warner's clearing music for George Lucas' latest release. Something to consider - for it to EVER happen that rights management evolves the music industry must come on board. If they perceive that the people who want to use their property are a bunch of thieves and pirates who'll keep ripping them off anyway, they'll dig their feet in and never allow it to happen - remember the Golden Rule: "He who has the gold, makes the rules." The small-user community needs to establish their credibility with the big boys as fellow media professionals who are just as concerned about the sanctity of intellectual property as they are and are seeking to reach an accomodation to their mutual benefit. That means that JWVE (Joe's ...) needs to be just as rigorous about staying legal as are NBC, CNN, or Fox. As soon as you accept a cheque for your work, you're playing in the major leagues and need to play by major league rules the same as if you were a mainstream Hollywood professional. Something to think about.
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Last edited by Steve House; December 19th, 2008 at 06:24 PM.
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Old December 19th, 2008, 05:50 PM   #42
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Steve....
Thanks for the input... Wow, you've really done your homework on this subject. I believe the general population of us might be over our heads. I know that I am.
I knew 100% when asking the question that chances are that it would still be illegal. I was looking at it like this. When you drive around town most people know if they drive 5mph over the speed limit, chances are that they wont be getting pulled over. It's still illegal, but not like driving 20mph over the limit. So my thought using a re-recorded version by a cover = over... using the original = 20mph over. Wow... after re-reading that it sounds terrible...
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Old December 20th, 2008, 12:52 PM   #43
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Steve....
Thanks for the input... Wow, you've really done your homework on this subject. I believe the general population of us might be over our heads. I know that I am.
I knew 100% when asking the question that chances are that it would still be illegal. I was looking at it like this. When you drive around town most people know if they drive 5mph over the speed limit, chances are that they wont be getting pulled over. It's still illegal, but not like driving 20mph over the limit. So my thought using a re-recorded version by a cover = over... using the original = 20mph over. Wow... after re-reading that it sounds terrible...
Letter of the law aside, to me it's a simple ethical issue. We owe our brother and sister professionals respect for their work and for their right to be compensated for their efforts. We don't have the right to advance our own careers by usurping the fruits of theirs even if we are usually able to get away with it. It's an issue of doing the right thing even when you don't have to.
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Old December 30th, 2008, 06:34 AM   #44
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so if a bride wants a particular song on her video - what's the answer? can I have her purchase the song or album and 'make a copy" for her use on the video?

If I purchase the song from itunes can I use it for that one instance of a wedding DVD?
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Old December 30th, 2008, 07:24 AM   #45
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re

so who actually uses music in their wedding that they got off a soundtrack or download???

or is that something no one will admit to
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