HD Delivery this year

[Lukas Siewior]

I'm thinking about upgrading to HD this year as well, but HD delivery scares me off. I'm trying to gather all pros and cons of HD camera also for use in SD, ie. native 16x9 (all my recent weddings are 16x9 - ppl asking for 4:3 are being told that it doesn't look good on their plasma).

Offering it as a standard is a bonus, since couples might think they're getting something extra they don't need at this time.

I just looked on the net for prices of BR-DVD players and you can get base, cheap Samsung for less then $200. I'm sure any couple can handle that expense after the wedding (or simply add it to their gift list) :-)

Now let me ask the guys who upgraded to BR - what is the initial cost of BR? Burner? Player? Software? disks? etc? Simply how much it'll cost me to sell first BR?

[Perrone Ford]

Originally Posted by Lukas Siewior

Now let me ask the guys who upgraded to BR - what is the initial cost of BR? Burner? Player? Software? disks? etc? Simply how much it'll cost me to sell first BR?

I don't do weddings but I am doing a lot of Blu-Ray now.

Burner was $350 or $399 back in June, can't remember. I bought a portable that had firewire and USB connections so I could use it on my desktop or take it in the field with my laptop. Works great.

I am getting a mix of single and dual layer disks these days. I ordered 10 dual layers back in June with the player. They were $38 each. I ordered some yesterday, paid $27.99 each. I ordered single layer Verbatims on a spindle of 10 about 2 weeks ago. Cost me about $7 a disk. I noticed a spindle yesterday while I was shopping for something else, that put the disks at about $5.50 each. That is cheaper than what I was spending for master quality DV tapes and approaching what I was spending for cheap DV tapes I used for scratch purposes.

Shooting HD has just become cheaper for me than shooting DV. SDHC acquisition media is re-usable unlike tape, and BD-R is now cheaper per hour and MUCH cheaper per gig than DV tape.

I use Sony Vegas and DVD Architect. So I spent nothing extra to be able to author Blu-Rays.

Other people may have different experiences, but mine have been nothing but positive.

Mark just mentioned he quoted $500 extra for Blu-Ray delivery. My burner, with disks didn't cost that much. Not sure that ANYONE would be interested in it at that price. I could see charging $50 extra to incrementally pay for the burner, and for the slight increase in media costs over DVD but wow...

[Lukas Siewior]

Originally Posted by Perrone Ford

Mark just mentioned he quoted $500 extra for Blu-Ray delivery. My burner, with disks didn't cost that much. Not sure that ANYONE would be interested in it at that price. I could see charging $50 extra to incrementally pay for the burner, and for the slight increase in media costs over DVD but wow...

$500 extra is a nice money to pay it all off at once, unless you just purchased 2 HD cams as well and have to incorporate that into the cost of production.

I'm facing a big dilemma - how can I get my $10k back if I invest it into new HD cams and other hardware (good thing my workstation is HDV ready). But I guess that's a problem everyone has or will face during the transition.

[Perrone Ford]

Originally Posted by Lukas Siewior

I'm facing a big dilemma - how can I get my $10k back if I invest it into new HD cams and other hardware (good thing my workstation is HDV ready). But I guess that's a problem everyone has or will face during the transition.

Two comments...

1. What will it cost you in a years time when you're the only guy who can't offer it at ANY price because you don't have the gear?

2. Where are you getting $10k from? And why on earth would you go HDV at this point? If I was just getting into this I'd certainly be steering clear of HDV.

[Lukas Siewior]

Originally Posted by Perrone Ford

Two comments...

1. What will it cost you in a years time when you're the only guy who can't offer it at ANY price because you don't have the gear?

2. Where are you getting $10k from? And why on earth would you go HDV at this point? If I was just getting into this I'd certainly be steering clear of HDV.

You're right Perrone. I can't justify how much money I'll potentially loose if I don't go HD.

As far as budget: $10k goes into two HDV cams (FX1000 and Z5U), mic for Z5 (need better shotgun), and LED lights for both cams, and other accessories (batteries, tapes, etc). I'd also love to get Brevis, but I don't think I can fit it in my budget.

[Steve Shovlar]

I just don't get it. Asking an extra $500 for a simple Blu-ray version of a movie you have already edited? It's an hours work at most plus the render.

Another thing. And a very important one that most people seem to have missed. Brides won't tell you they want a Blu-ray version of their wedding. Well a few will but most won't.

It's completely up to you, as the videographer, and business owner, TO SELL them on it.

The girl comes over and watches some footage at my stand. I have a Panasonic 100Mhz 37 inch 1080P TV, showing a 20 minute HD loop from my Popcorn Hour. It looks stunning, features about 8 weddings and is fast paced.

I already know who the opposition is at the expo. I checked them out just before the show opened and they are using a 26 inch TV and playing an SD dvd.

The bride looks at my footage. She says it looks very clear. I go through my pitch and explain that she is watching HD, and that I offer it to her not as an extra, but part of my standard package. She is impressed. But she has no way of playing it. I tell her she gets 6 SD DVDs as well included in the package, and when she and her husband go out to but a Blu-ray player, as they surely will eventually, it will be there waiting for them. I tell her how her childrens children will be able to watch in crystal clear clarity their granny getting married.

But here is the thing. It's part of my standard package, I tell the bride. "But how much"? she asks. "Well you get what you pay for and when you book me you know you are going to get something special. I pride myself with having many satisfied custom...blah blah blah.

I am happy for them to walk away. No discount on the day to get that deposit. I use no pressure. I don't have to.

I hope I do have opposition, because I know while the bride is at the fair they will check out the opposition and compare footage.

And that is where Blu-ray wins. Not a bride coming up and wanting Blu-ray. But a bride leaving my stand after 5 minutes of talking to me, desperate to have it. It might not even have been in the back of her mind. But once she has seen the footage and compared to my rivals, and I have explained what the benefits are, more often than not she is sold on it.

And that is how I market it. And my diary is up 60% already on this time last year, even in these horrible days of recession.

My rivals, who all offer SD only (and many are friends) are struggling and wel down on last year.

Blu-ray is a golden goose for those willing to grab it with both hands and take a large slice of the market share.

[Lukas Siewior]

Steve. I can see your sales act is working, since you're booked already for this year. Congrats :-)

I've never been at the trade show, so I'll give it a shot and see how it all looks like and what other are offering. There is one show coming up in March. Will go for sure, pretending that I am the customer :-) It's good to know what you are against before you start fighting for clients.

[Steve Shovlar]

After this weekend I have a wedding fair every sunday until the end of March. I can't get enough of them because this the sure fire direct way of brides seeing my footage. Far better than a yellow pages/website clip download.

What is highly frustrating is there is a big fair on this weekend local to me that I am unable to get into. Over 7000 brides over two days and one evening. I paid a visit on Friday evening and the place was packed. Its the same 4 vidographers every time. Dead Mans Shoes. I won't get in until one of them croaks. The organisers give first option to those already in the show, regardless of ability and its highly frustrating sitting on the outside looking in, especially when I feel my product is far better all round.

hit the fairs, make sure your stand rocks. BIG Plasma or LCD, PS3 or Popcorn hour media player, at least a 15 minute loop in 1080P or 720P which is lively and up to date. And sell sell sell. Blu-ray is a god send and because some videographers are dragging their feet over it, there's a massive opportunity and those who dare, win.

[Ger Griffin]

The main reason I dont have it in my standard package now is that Im one of the only videogs in the area to have already upped my prices this year. By a lot too.
If I was to introduce HD as standard I would need to up my price some more to justify it and I don't think my market can handle it. Things are very volatile in Ireland at the moment.
Basically Im doing fine without it.

[Ilya Spektor]

Originally Posted by Perrone Ford

...And why on earth would you go HDV at this point? If I was just getting into this I'd certainly be steering clear of HDV.

I want to get into HD (now using PD-170) and seriously consider Sony Z7U - I like dual media recording options etc... What professional handheld camcorder would you recommend? If not HDV, than what?.. I don't know any professional AVCHD camcorder as good as Z7U (Panasonic HMC-150, at least, is not as good, IMHO...)

[Perrone Ford]

Originally Posted by Ilya Spektor

I want to get into HD (now using PD-170) and seriously consider Sony Z7U - I like dual media recording options etc... What professional handheld camcorder would you recommend? If not HDV, than what?.. I don't know any professional AVCHD camcorder as good as Z7U (Panasonic HMC-150, at least, is not as good, IMHO...)

Uhhh, EX1/EX3, HPX170, JVC's lineup is pretty solid too. I'm not that big on dual media recording, but if I was, "id be looking at something offboard as primary, like the FlashXDR or nanoflash.

[Vito DeFilippo]

Originally Posted by Perrone Ford

Uhhh, EX1/EX3, HPX170, JVC's lineup is pretty solid too. I'm not that big on dual media recording, but if I was, "id be looking at something offboard as primary, like the FlashXDR or nanoflash.

Perrone, you say you don't do weddings, so your focus may be different. I can think of very good reasons to go HDV for an event videographer.

First, tape is a great, tested, cheap, reliable medium. Sony keeps coming up with tape based cameras for a reason.

Second, for those of us who do many events and tend to suffer backlogs, tape is great. You shoot, put it away, and it's there waiting for you when you want to edit.

HDV is a good codec. Really good picture. Sure, it breaks down here and there, but it's proven, easy to ingest, edit and output.

Card based shooting can be problematic for those on the go. We can't stop in the middle of everything to grab a laptop, download a card, check that all is okay, erase, and pop the card back in to continue. Or you can buy lots of cards and continue. Of course, at the end of the day, you have to offload all these cards to hard drives, with backups. With media prices dropping, this is becoming less of an issue, but it's still there.

Now, I'd kill to do all my work on an EX1. But it just doesn't fit the business plan at the moment for the reasons above.

By the way, I have the greatest respect for your opinions, and follow your posts with interest.

[Perrone Ford]

Correct, I don't shoot weddings, but I do shoot events. LONG events, of 2-8 hours per day. So let me ask you this. Wedding ceremony lasts 1 hour and 15 minutes. What do you do with your tape cams? On the Ex1, I can roll 2 hours straight without touching the camera with 2 $35 cards. if I buy the more expensive cards, I can roll 4 hours straight.

A $300 investment in cards gives me 8 hours of footage. Yes, I have to dump the footage but I get to do it at 4-6x realtime, unlike tape. I've shot plenty of tape. VHS, Hi-8, miniDV, DVCam. And I wouldn't touch it again if I didn't have to. Yes, Sony keeps making tape cameras. But notice that they are phasing it out on every pro cam they make. it's only the consumer end cams that are keeping tape for now. HDV will also never let you capture full raster images, even if the camera is capable of rendering them. That's a shame to me. You'd really like your recording media to exceed the cam specs. Not lag behind them.

In Aug 2008, I recorded my first big conference with the EX1. Two 6 hour days. I recorded to hard drive, backed up on SxS card. I transferred my media in 4 hour chunks over lunch and after dinner. Transfer and verification took about an hour. An HOUR to transfer and verify half a days shooting. With no deck.

it's a bright, shiny tapeless world out here man... come join us.

[Vito DeFilippo]

Hi Perron,

Look, I agree with you. But it's apples and oranges.

2-8 hours is nothing. I routinely shoot 14-16 hour days. I can't remember the last time I had the luxury of an 8 hour shoot.

One wedding with two cams is easily 8-10 tapes. We don't shoot the ceremony and go home. We arrive at 9am for the groom's prep, and leave at midnight.

Let's say you shoot 40 weddings. At the end of the season, you are perhaps 20 weddings in backlog. That's maybe 100 tapes lying around waiting to be captured. We have no desire to go through the process of transfering all this footage to multiple hard drives (assuming a card based workflow). Shoot it on a tape, put it away, and it's there for you when you're ready.

Yes, "It's a bright, shiny tapeless world out here man", and I'm ready to join you. But it won't be for wedding work for as long as I can help it.

For our corporate stuff, I can't wait!

[Perrone Ford]

Fair enoigh Vito. But I am curious. If you didn't have to load tapes into a deck to get ready for edit, would your backlog be so high? I mean shooting a 14 hour day means 15 or more hours just to get STARTED on the edit.

I am also curious if other wedding guys shoot as much. I admit COMPLETE ignorance about the wedding video market, but coming here has been a terrific education for me. Especially as my daughter has a wedding planned in 9-14 months!

-P