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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old March 14th, 2009, 09:54 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franklin Bencosme View Post
Intro,trailer,baby pictures,toghether pictures,family pictures
ceremony,reception,hight lights.............60 minutes..more video
go like bonus at the DVD menu!!!
how long is the bonus?
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Old March 14th, 2009, 10:18 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Brad Cook View Post
Ok, I think I'm getting off on the wrong foot here. Not my intention. Especially to you Jeff.

If bride-to-be's have seen my work and like what they see and want to hire me...knowing that the whole video was 16 minutes long....then what do I do with that? Am I to assume that I'm doing something right because they like it, or am I wrong because "16 minutes isn't near long enough for a wedding video" like some have stated here? It seems contradictory in a sense.
Brad- If you showed your prospect a 16 minute video and they understood thats what they're getting, then great- go out and sell as many 16 minute videos as you can. I think what you'll find though over time are clients who want more than that. At least in my market they do and in fact a few have even asked for the raw footage. They loved the edit but they just want to see more. Here's how my deliverable breaks down.

Main Edit - 30-40 minutes
Extras (unedited ceremony, more dances, etc) 45-60 minutes
Highlight - 4 minutes
Trailer - 1 minute
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Old March 14th, 2009, 10:39 PM   #18
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after doing long form for many many years some going on 3 plus hours back in the late 90s I decided to do a shorter edit. over the last few years it's become short form. Now to different people that means different thing but here is a typical layout. First keep in mind that I'm talking about Catholic mass ceremonys that are generally about 45 to 55 minutes. Also keep in mind thet in my area receptions can run 4 hours of events not talking about dinner time (sit down plated service-not a buffet) I will typically have 4 to 5 hours of footage-from prep to goodbye. Can't edit what you don't have. My typical edit is 45 to 55 minutes. The ceremony which in long form is 45 to 55 minutes is cut to 10 to 12 the reception is edited to about 25 to 35 the prep photo session highlight andcredits are whatever they are depending on the footage and music. 3 to 5 minutes. Add it up and you get 45 to 55 minutes. Now I don't care if it goes 40 or 65 it really doesn't matter. I also give them the RAW footage on DVD of the uncut ceremony and the reception in real time from intros on. This way they have everything but 99% of the time they only watch the 1 bowler (of pop corn that is). IMO the 15 minute piece is a highlight and not the whole day BUT if the client is good with it great.
Everything is dependent on 1) how you sell what you do and 2) how well you do it
If the 15 minute day works for you, keep doing it
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Old March 14th, 2009, 10:42 PM   #19
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My bonus go between 3 to 5 minutes!!.
I think I video after 60 minutes gets BORING for
the people that are looking the wedding video..

My opinion....
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Old March 15th, 2009, 12:28 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Don Bloom View Post
after doing long form for many many years some going on 3 plus hours back in the late 90s I decided to do a shorter edit. over the last few years it's become short form. Now to different people that means different thing but here is a typical layout. First keep in mind that I'm talking about Catholic mass ceremonys that are generally about 45 to 55 minutes. Also keep in mind thet in my area receptions can run 4 hours of events not talking about dinner time (sit down plated service-not a buffet) I will typically have 4 to 5 hours of footage-from prep to goodbye. Can't edit what you don't have. My typical edit is 45 to 55 minutes. The ceremony which in long form is 45 to 55 minutes is cut to 10 to 12 the reception is edited to about 25 to 35 the prep photo session highlight andcredits are whatever they are depending on the footage and music. 3 to 5 minutes. Add it up and you get 45 to 55 minutes. Now I don't care if it goes 40 or 65 it really doesn't matter. I also give them the RAW footage on DVD of the uncut ceremony and the reception in real time from intros on. This way they have everything but 99% of the time they only watch the 1 bowler (of pop corn that is). IMO the 15 minute piece is a highlight and not the whole day BUT if the client is good with it great.
Everything is dependent on 1) how you sell what you do and 2) how well you do it
If the 15 minute day works for you, keep doing it
VERY insightful post. Thank you very much.

I have to agree with the raw footage aspect of this. I believe one of the brides asking about us is already requesting raw footage, which I don't have a problem with. I can cut out the directing and chit chat between filmer and client etc. and just give them all keepable stuff throughout the day. (regardless if it made it in the edit or not). I can handle that.

Let me ask some of you a question again:

After doing this for so long, do you feel as if you've compromised your artistic side in doing some of these videos just to keep customers happy? I get the feeling it could be akin to an up and coming artist who once did it for the love and passion and now is selling out to corporate marketing just to get sales. I guess the minute I start doing this just for them is the day I stop doing it, because this is how I'm expressing myself artistically through capturing their day. In the end, if I have felt like I have put out a "booooooring" video (as quoted from someone else), then I'm not satisfied.

I've definitely established myself as the black sheep here. =P
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Old March 15th, 2009, 02:50 AM   #21
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roughly 45 min for me. I charged based on play time & cameras, so more play time must mean a longer more involved wedding (usually the bigger church weddings). The shortest I've done was a ceremony that was 10 minutes and I was pushing hard to come up with material to fill 35 minutes play time (client requested 45). Longest I did was 2hrs and it was boring as all get out, but the client had a massive church wedding, a massive reception (just the intros took 10 minutes!).
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Old March 15th, 2009, 06:40 AM   #22
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The length of dvd depends on the event itself as others here have mentioned. My typical edited length is from 50 min to 1 hour and 20 min. I also include 7-10 min highlights, but it all depends on what material you have. When I edit my do it in a way that I like. It has been said that if a filmmaker is boring with his work it will show through his work. So if I get bored looking at the resaults of my edit then I have work on it better. I do include on a seperate DVD full length of the seremoni and speaches but in edited form, that is guests response, so that will also be not too boring to sit trough.

In the highlights I use my artistic element to convey the feel and mood of the weeding day.
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Old March 15th, 2009, 06:52 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Cook View Post
Let me ask some of you a question again:

After doing this for so long, do you feel as if you've compromised your artistic side in doing some of these videos just to keep customers happy? I get the feeling it could be akin to an up and coming artist who once did it for the love and passion and now is selling out to corporate marketing just to get sales. I guess the minute I start doing this just for them is the day I stop doing it, because this is how I'm expressing myself artistically through capturing their day. In the end, if I have felt like I have put out a "booooooring" video (as quoted from someone else), then I'm not satisfied.

I've definitely established myself as the black sheep here. =P
For me, I don't feel as if I've comprimised my "artistic side"-nor do I feel as if I gave in and am doing things just to make the client happy. I hate to say it but since 1983 when I started with video I've ALWAYS done what needed to be done to keep the client happy because without happpy clients you've got no business. Artistic? Sure, I do what I can to make it an artistic creative video but they hire me to document their day, not make it something it wasn't. Don't get me wrong, I like the atristic,creative stuff as much as anyone but I have never felt like I am "selling out". My job is to give my client a piece of work that has stable well exposed properly framed footage with quality audio in a format they can watch with their friends and family for years and years.
BTW, what YOU might consider boring they might and probably don't. Remember it's THEIR wedding, not yours so to them everytime they watch they see something new and most important they see themselves on the most important day of their live (up to that point) so to them-it's not boring. If you feel that your work is boring then you either need to change your style or your profession. Talk to me after you've done about 1600 weddings then we'll talk boring. :-)
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Old March 15th, 2009, 08:42 AM   #24
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Boring

Please note that what we consider as boring is a treasure to the Bride & Groom. No matter how good the wedding film is you can't expect people to watch the video like it's Transformers 2 and ask for a re-run; but the Bride would certainly watch it over & over again.

My wedding video is 1:30 on the average, I don't cut the speeches, ceremony.

My 2 cents
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Old March 15th, 2009, 12:07 PM   #25
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brad

i noticed what you wrote in the other thread and even though I didn't really take the time to go through word for word on this thread. I totally agree with you. My edit is usually 20 to 30 min. I tell the B&G this when I meet them.
They receive a smooth flowing, action packed video of all the days events.. Then on another DVD the entire ceremony and reception with a very slight edit (basically me taking out all of the shots with me running with the camera).
Best of both worlds in my opinion. They'll have their "short" to show to friends and family and then they'll have the extended version for them.

my thoughts....

Steve
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Old March 15th, 2009, 01:36 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Don Bloom View Post
Artistic? Sure, I do what I can to make it an artistic creative video but they hire me to document their day, not make it something it wasn't. Don't get me wrong, I like the atristic,creative stuff as much as anyone but I have never felt like I am "selling out". My job is to give my client a piece of work that has stable well exposed properly framed footage with quality audio in a format they can watch with their friends and family for years and years.
BTW, what YOU might consider boring they might and probably don't. Remember it's THEIR wedding, not yours so to them everytime they watch they see something new and most important they see themselves on the most important day of their live (up to that point) so to them-it's not boring. If you feel that your work is boring then you either need to change your style or your profession. Talk to me after you've done about 1600 weddings then we'll talk boring. :-)
Brad - I think I know where you're going with the artistic thing. When I first started doing this, my idea of a great wedding video was a short composition of the best footage of the day scored to some cool music, little to no natural audio - basically a long highlight clip. I did it this way because I thought it felt creative and artsy and all that. I had no interest in the long form because to me it wasn't very exciting. At some point though based on customer feedback, I started delivering more of a documentary style product. Lots of natural audio, sound bytes, family interviews, etc, intermixed with cinematic segments here and there. What I've come to find is that editing documentary style takes as much ( if not more) skill and creativity to make it an engaging production. For me, the response to this format has been great so it's what I'm sticking with for now. With that said, the product I deliver today is totally different from what I used to deliver and is priced accordingly. I'm sure there is a market for the 16 minute video and hey, in today's economy it could become a hot seller if it's priced right.

Art
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Old March 15th, 2009, 07:22 PM   #27
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Hello Everyone,

Since it was my thread that sparked this one I would like to offer my 2 cents. I personally am drawn to the short artistic edit and if I encourage clients to take that route then I feel I am doing my job by offering them something they haven't seen or experienced before or in most cases not aware of. At least not in our region anyway. Our Feature Presentation is the Short, but I by no means cut or leave anything out, you can't, its all important. Its just not defined in the main feature. Thats the beauty of the DVD platform and we use it to its limits. Secondary or Bonus DVD's are provided that provide full long form documentary edits of the Ceremony, Toasts and Speeches, First Dances and any other special activity that occurred. We also include things like out-takes, gag reels, deleted footage.

Please don't misunderstand, long form can be just as involved as Art Varga has pointed out. But when we give clients the opportunity to investigate both formats they have always overwhelmingly picked the short form.

We are supposed to be the experts, we spend countless hours investigating trends, reviewing all the great works of our peers on sites like this, investing in the tools that give us the ability just to do some unique shots and continually work to hone our skills. I think that gives us the insight to properly guide our clients.

Best Regards

GMan
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Old March 16th, 2009, 12:57 AM   #28
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I personally feel that even if some agree or some don't agree with anything that has been said thus far, some great stuff has come out of this thread.

I've learned a ton already and I thank each and every one of you for your responses. It's definitely giving me a new perspective on things. I really have to tweak my mindset a little bit, and listen to my gut instinct as well as make the customer happy. My first wedding experience left me a little jaded. My future wedding experiences will not go anything like the first....at all. I know it will be more involved and more difficult, from capture to final burn.

Why am I doing this again? haha

On a side note: it's interesting because being a newcomer to the game, I've only recently heard of who Joe Simon is and how influential he has been in wedding videography. What's also interesting is how he feels about wedding videos and how it somewhat aligns with what I'm feeling and expressing.....(I am not comparing myself to Joe)....

http://www.eventdv.net/Articles/Read...rticleID=52906
(Scroll down to the video and click on 1:1 and the dialogue between 5:00 - 6:55)

Last edited by Brad Cook; March 16th, 2009 at 03:04 AM. Reason: Side note
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Old March 16th, 2009, 04:20 AM   #29
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Thanks for the link Brad - I watched all three vids. Love his camera movements but rigging a nearby tree for a swing shot? On the wedding day? And loving 4:3? Not if the couple stretch it to fill their new plasma.
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Old March 16th, 2009, 12:17 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Brad Cook View Post
I personally feel that even if some agree or some don't agree with anything that has been said thus far, some great stuff has come out of this thread.

I've learned a ton already and I thank each and every one of you for your responses. It's definitely giving me a new perspective on things. I really have to tweak my mindset a little bit, and listen to my gut instinct as well as make the customer happy. My first wedding experience left me a little jaded. My future wedding experiences will not go anything like the first....at all. I know it will be more involved and more difficult, from capture to final burn.

Why am I doing this again? haha

On a side note: it's interesting because being a newcomer to the game, I've only recently heard of who Joe Simon is and how influential he has been in wedding videography. What's also interesting is how he feels about wedding videos and how it somewhat aligns with what I'm feeling and expressing.....(I am not comparing myself to Joe)....

EventDV.net: Studio Time | Joe Simon Productions: Weddings, Super 8, and the BMX Factor
(Scroll down to the video and click on 1:1 and the dialogue between 5:00 - 6:55)
Brad,

Good link, thanks very much. Its very nice to see how close Joe's sentiments hit close to home. We feel the same way about the short form and how it can become greater than the whole. Our couples express the same too us as well, they love the short version, so much so that they can't help replaying it over and over again, which is a very great compliment for us.

Thanks Again

Gino
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