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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old August 13th, 2004, 11:16 AM   #16
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<<<-- Originally posted by Chris Wright : I've been told by a professional in the wedding video business that since the wedding videos are not widely distributed, and only for home viewing of the couple and their families, that if you buy the CD that contains the song you want to use, and then give the CD to the bride and groom, you will have nothing to worry about.

Does anyone here agree with this? -->>>

rememeber once this is done, and you want to keep a copy for your own portfolio or stick it on the web, you are blatantly inviting royalty rights issues.
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Old August 19th, 2004, 02:49 PM   #17
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<<<-- Originally posted by Edward Troxel : Just do a search on Google for "Royalty Free Music" - might want to try on e-bay too.

I have the Music Mania and a few other CDs from Elite Video. I know there IS some good stuff out there. I think maybe "piano boys" or something like that. Many have samples online. -->>>

I think you mean www.pianobrothers.com. I licensed their "A Day To Remember" CD for $69 for unlimited usage. It is the best I've heard, especially at this price. I like knowing all my videos are legit now, too.
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Old August 22nd, 2004, 08:45 PM   #18
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I didnt read the others but I do have a question if there any takers. Is it ok to record a song live and put it in your dvd? considering you have the ok to do the videography by the event director.

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Old August 22nd, 2004, 08:50 PM   #19
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If you get all the proper rights from the music publisher and the performers then, yes, that would be legal.
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Old August 24th, 2004, 06:43 PM   #20
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<<<-- Originally posted by Lloyd Coleman : Peter Jefferson wrote

"easy solution is to pay for a license.. simple no brainer..."

I would love to do this, but found it very hard and expensive to do. Is it really an 'easy solution' as Peter says, and if so, how do you do it. -->>>


My sister used to work for a record label in New York...

She used to get a lot of small time requests for use of songs in videos/school plays etc...[Not big time licensing--like compliations "the Groovy 70's" etc---they pay attention to *that* kind of stuff.] and almost always-- the standard answer is NO.

The problem is that there isn't any kind of real structure to deal with requests for people that aren't making a commercial film. An employee to type a license etc whatever....the record companies are more disorganized than you think(according to my sis)

I obviously--think it is stupid as it a golden opportunity---there needs to be an affordable license one can purchase for a couple copies.

Right now---it's either you are big time player and can pay thousands for the rights to the song...or you use it "illegally".

That's why I hope the success of the iTunes music store can translate in the opening record companies eyes to other revenue sources of their cash cows...
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Old August 24th, 2004, 08:59 PM   #21
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Try www.smartsound.com
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Old August 25th, 2004, 12:24 AM   #22
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According to the Harry Fox Agency (hearsay), no license is needed for 10 copies or less if the B&G own the CD.

For more info, see:
Suggestion for FAQ Update - Use of Copyrighted Music
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Old August 25th, 2004, 01:24 PM   #23
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Quote:
I've been told by a professional in the wedding video business that since the wedding videos are not widely distributed, and only for home viewing of the couple and their families, that if you buy the CD that contains the song you want to use, and then give the CD to the bride and groom, you will have nothing to worry about.

Does anyone here agree with this?
This is completely wrong, and constitutes copyright infringement. This has been discussed many times here. Do a search on my name and "fair use."

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According to the Harry Fox Agency (hearsay), no license is needed for 10 copies or less if the B&G own the CD
This is not the law, but may be the policy of the Harry Fox Agency with respect to the clients that they represent.

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Is it ok to record a song live and put it in your dvd? considering you have the ok to do the videography by the event director.
Not without permission of the copyright owner. This has also been discussed at some length here. Do a search on my name and "incidental reproduction."

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So during the couples first dance, am I to dub over the audio with my hums and whistles, or just not record it?
It depends on how much you use and what the court decides is the purpose of the video. Do the "incidental reproduction" search, above.

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What if I can read the label on the beer can Uncle Bob is drinking, I should have permission for that too, but I doubt Coors is going to come after me for that either.
Apples and oranges -- the label on the beer can raises trademark issues, whereas copying music implicates copyright. If there is no likelihood of consumer confusion as to source (and I don't see how there would be in a wedding video), and there is no dilution or tarnishment of the trademark (and I don't see how there would be in a wedding video), there's no reason to be concerned over having a beer can label visible.
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Old August 26th, 2004, 05:20 PM   #24
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A Scenario

So you're telling me that this scenario is illegal???---

I have a wedding-
I record it-
I own a copy of certain music i like-
I overlay this music in the video in the editing process-
I am the only one to own the final result-


Is this Illegal?????


If its true that when you buy music its for your personal disposal- then I did nothing illegal- because only I own the end result- and only i benefit from the music- and only i am using the music.

And if this is infact not illegal, then what does it matter if someone else does it for you? As long as you dont charge people for adding their music, then there's no reason that it should be illegal.

Please respond.
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Old August 26th, 2004, 09:41 PM   #25
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Re: A Scenario

<<<-- Originally posted by Kevin Lepp : So you're telling me that this scenario is illegal???---

I have a wedding-
I record it-
I own a copy of certain music i like-
I overlay this music in the video in the editing process-
I am the only one to own the final result
--->>>

I am not a lawyer but, I guess the consensus is yes, to the letter of the law that is not legal. Will anyone ever care enough about that scenario to sue you? not likely, but still possible. Would they win if they sued you? I guess we will never know until they do, and I can't seem to find any info anywhere about anyone who has been sued over something similar.

Ever earn a couple of bucks mowing a lawn or shooting a video before you were a top notch pro and not tell the tax man (shhhh)? What about drive 5mph over the speed limit? Hook up cable to an extra TV and not call the cable company? That is not legal either, ask an attorney....

I just did a quick search on most of the winners of the WEVA awards, found their sites to check out the demo's and about 80% of them use protected music in at least one of their demo's that are being streamed to the web! I think the fact is, some videographers disregard copyright laws under the 'bigger fish to fry' assumption, others use royalty free music, some a mix of both. It really depends on how you sell your business, what the customer wants to see, and how much you want the business. If they like what you can provide with royalty free music, and not 'syncing' anything to the ambient noise of their cut down first dance, you are in a great position. If they liked what they saw from others who abuse the copyright laws, there is not much you can do, as I am sure they will always be around.

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Old August 26th, 2004, 10:09 PM   #26
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Quote:
So you're telling me that this scenario is illegal???---

I have a wedding-
I record it-
I own a copy of certain music i like-
I overlay this music in the video in the editing process-
I am the only one to own the final result-


Is this Illegal?????
For your own use? Possibly, but not certainly, this scenario comes within the AHRA, which precludes infringement liability for creating audio copies for your own use. However, there are two separate rights that are implicated here, the right to make copies and the right to prepare a derivative work. Only the former is addressed by the AHRA.

With all that said, I believe this scenario also should come within Fair Use. For what it's worth, when I edited my own wedding video, I did exactly this.

Quote:
If its true that when you buy music its for your personal disposal-
Except that it's not true. When you buy an authorized copy of music (we're not getting into any licensing scenario), the copy is subject to first sale doctrine, which allows you to give the copy away, rent it, loan it, destroy it, or use it as a coaster. You do not have the right to violate any of the reserved rights of the copyright owner, e.g. the right to make copies, prepare derivative works, perform publicly, etc.

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then I did nothing illegal- because only I own the end result- and only i benefit from the music- and only i am using the music.
What you've done is describe, sort of, the basis for such a use coming within fair use doctrine.

Quote:
And if this is infact not illegal, then what does it matter if someone else does it for you?
It matters because the AHRA doesn't allow you to do it for someone. It matters because one of the fair use factors is whether the use is commercial in nature and has any impact on the market for the original.

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As long as you dont charge people for adding their music, then there's no reason that it should be illegal.
Do you mean, no reason other than the law?

As I've said a number of times -- if any wedding videographer is sued for infringement in this scenario, I'll do my best to persuade my firm to allow me to do the defense on a pro bono basis, because I believe that fair use should cover this kind of activity (no guarantees here -- this isn't a promise or a contract). However, under the current state of the law, it is illegal to do so. The only mechanism for using music on commercial CDs is to obtain a license for its use.
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Old August 26th, 2004, 10:13 PM   #27
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I just did a quick search on most of the winners of the WEVA awards. . .
And, as a postscript, WEVA is in the best position to remedy this situation. All it takes is a little legislation. WEVA should be lobbying Congress, and also should be negotiating with the major music publishers for an easy-to-administer, inexpensive license for wedding and event videographers.
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Old August 26th, 2004, 11:04 PM   #28
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I saw a commercial a few years back about cd burners- in the commercial they used an example of how you can use the burner (and this was from a major manufacturer, Phillips or something)- a guy was burning a mix of a few different cd's onto a new blank cd, thus making his own new cd mix of songs he got from his previously purchased cd's. - if what your saying could possibly be against the law, then there would be no way that they would have made that commercial- because as far as the purpose goes, its the same thing- SO, then concluding that it is legal for you to make your own mix (copying your own purchased songs onto another object for playback), then I CANT see how it would be illegal to make a mix for playback, only instead of mixing it with other songs on a cd, you mix it with video--- I cant for the life of me understand how that is different in the sense of the Fair Use thing. YOURE USING IT FOR YOURSELF-thats the point of what the Fair Use thing is supposed to be about- I just dont see how its any different- what?, is there a law defining that you can listen to a duplicated song, but you cant listen to a duplicated song with video- If thats true, then thats ridiculous.

I dont mean to sound mad, I just dont see how thats possible using common sense- and nothing against any of you who do say that this is illegal, but id have to hear that from a judge after ive explained it to them like that, before I'd believe it. It just seems like any judge in our courts using common sense would acknowledge the obvious comments im making and declare this not to be illegal.

And another question: if i dont have a cd burner, but i want to make a mix of my cd's, so i give some of my cd's to my friend to make me a mix- and i then get my cd's back and he gives me the mixed cd and keeps no copy for himself- is this illegal? And if you say it is, then WHY??? Legally explain to me why i can do something myself, but i cant let someone else do it for me-THAT I DONT UNDERSTAND-- again, im talking about specifically not charging any money for this, so you cant say im making money from this action-

Thankyou,

kevin
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Old August 26th, 2004, 11:35 PM   #29
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I CANT see how it would be illegal to make a mix for playback, only instead of mixing it with other songs on a cd, you mix it with video
Exactly what I thought and posted earlier in the thread. After looking into it in a little more detail, and reviewing the copyright article on Douglas Spotted Eagle's website (posted here), it made things a little more clear. (I hope that it is OK to post the link)

Fair use does seem to protect you enough to make a music mix of CD's you have purchased. Even changing media (recording to tape, or MP3). The biggest concern comes when using the music to better your video production. If you simply added it the start of the roll, and played a black screen then sure, it would probably be the same as recording it to a mixed CD. But once you add video, and then edit that video to the music, it is a whole new can of worms involving not only the copyright of the music, but 'sync licensing' too and using the recording to benefit your work.
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Old August 27th, 2004, 12:17 AM   #30
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i despise this legal system- or atleast the companies that make these laws.

Why cant they just make a simple insertion into their legal statements that says if you want to sync music for weddings then you have to buy the cd that you are going to use brand new or something.- therefore it offsets any costs the music people think they are losing from the music being used on the wedding videos.

Lets be honest- The only people who will ever watch this video more than once will be the Bride and Groom and the videographer.
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