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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old August 12th, 2004, 04:46 PM   #16
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<<<-- Originally posted by Chris Thomas : I am new to the whole thing, so forgive my elementary question, but I like the frame you used, how did you create that? I notice that the thin borders are semi transparent. -->>>

Vegas's "border" filter.
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Old August 12th, 2004, 04:47 PM   #17
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Wedding vids are definately taking a turn in a new direction. I have a very normal couple getting married in October that wants their entire wedding cut together with TOOL music along with b-roll that is very subjective and nightmarish looking. I can't wait to get my hands on this one. Their opening credits are to mirror the opening of Rob Zombie's House of a 1000 Corpses!!! minus any nudity of course....

That sounds great- probably going to be a very fun project. Please post some clips when you get some of it completed. Granted some of the old timers here will hate but it sure sounds exciting. Btw, welcome to the board!
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Old August 15th, 2004, 12:24 PM   #18
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Awesome work Glen!

I love the music, the cam angles and movement. It surrounds the clip with mystery and magic...
Makes me want to see more.
May I ask which music this is?

thanks

Stephen
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Old August 16th, 2004, 01:20 PM   #19
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video

Hi Glen,

I've seen your work before and this looks super. Nice choice of shots. Reminds me of my work.

One thing I might advise is to not get too caught up in effects and fancy shots. If editing an entire video is taking longer then 2 days or you are using more then a tape and a half, I would change the way you work. This is not entirely directed at you...

When I started I used to make everything slow-mo (still do a lot). Take tons and tons of scenery shots of walls, statues, flowers etc. All slowed down with a touch of the dreamy effect. It took me a week to edit them. I think if you want to make it in this business everything must be very cookie-cutter. Now I know many folks do not agree with this. But most of the people that disagree with me are not doing 6 weddings a week, running large promotions and making $$$$.

Since I've steamlined my process I'm able to do much more work, edit more videos and guess what? The client think the quality is the same, if not better - Mostly because the video is more directed at them and not the place where the wedding was held. I also switched from using 3 DV tapes to a tape and a half. Those tapes are expinsive!!!!

Good luck, and remember to always get paid for your time. And if you are married, it will make your wife much happier too lol.
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Old August 16th, 2004, 01:49 PM   #20
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Re: video

<<<-- Originally posted by Mark Monciardini :
Since I've steamlined my process I'm able to do much more work, edit more videos and guess what? The client think the quality is the same, if not better - Mostly because the video is more directed at them and not the place where the wedding was held. I also switched from using 3 DV tapes to a tape and a half. Those tapes are expinsive!!!!-->>>

How do you film an entire wedding on a tape an a half? (a serios question, not a comment, I really would like to know what you focus on capturing, and when you aren't filming)

I would assume that it is definately only 1 camera, and how long is the edited version? 2 days to edit 1.5 hours of footage seems a little long. I would love to see some of your work too, when can you post?
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Old August 16th, 2004, 05:01 PM   #21
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Glen,

I just watched your clip and really liked it. Its different alright, but in a good way. Powerful and moving music intertwined with the clips. I'm fairly new to weddings but I know what I like and what I think works... you did a great job.
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Old August 16th, 2004, 08:06 PM   #22
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Re: video

<<<-- Originally posted by Mark Monciardini : Hi Glen,

I've seen your work before and this looks super. Nice choice of shots. Reminds me of my work.
Yes I like your work as well, very talented. It's most definitly helpful to have an artistic eye in your approach to framing and shot aquisition. I feel it is helpfull to have a background in graphics/design and even still photography. Ironicly enough if I had the choice I'd be doing graphic work over video- I just haven't found a way to make it profitable. I know your a fellow PS guy like myself.

One thing I might advise is to not get too caught up in effects and fancy shots. If editing an entire video is taking longer then 2 days or you are using more then a tape and a half, I would change the way you work. This is not entirely directed at you...
Two days- wow, what a guess. It took me exactly 2 nights to complete this segment. 10 hours total. I know this because this is the first project I actually started logging my hours every night. It's difficult because I work full time (40hr/week) and the only time I have for it is at night after I get back from the gym, before I hit the sac. It's a vicious cycle which I'm sure can quickly lead to burn-out. However beings I'm not as well established as some of the others in my area I need to make that much more of an impact to separate myself from the local competition and get myself off the ground.

When I started I used to make everything slow-mo (still do a lot). Take tons and tons of scenery shots of walls, statues, flowers etc. All slowed down with a touch of the dreamy effect. It took me a week to edit them. I think if you want to make it in this business everything must be very cookie-cutter. Now I know many folks do not agree with this. But most of the people that disagree with me are not doing 6 weddings a week, running large promotions and making $$$$.
Even if I went full-time with this, quit the day job and devoted long hours I don't think I could do 6 weddings a week. Quite honestly I've never even heard of such a workflow- if that is yours I commend you...sheshhh. That's incredible.

I do, however, feel you have a point somewhat...not that I ever want to make a wedding "cookie-cutter" but workflow is a big issue...scratch that a HUGE issue. I feel that is my achillies heel when it comes to this business. I have to work on streamlining my workflow to get the most productivity in the sortest amount of time. All the while not sacraficing artistic creation.

My problem is I'm a very slow and meticulous editor- I'm sure I take MUCH longer than I should on every segment. Being a perfectionist doesn't help either- I'm forever tweaking the "finished" result. I have to learn how to just walk away.

I feel you have to find a median between cookie cutter and revolutionary. On one hand you don't want to feed your client something they might have seen before...a video you did for the brides friend, perhaps. On the other hand you don't want to be so meticulous and exacting if it's going to take you 60-70hours to complete ONE video, especially if your workload is several weddings a week. I guess I'd prefer to do 25 weddings a year over 50 a year...even if the price was the same per wedding. Sure I'd be making a bundle doing 50 but I wouldn't be happy. I'd be so burnt I'd be begging to get OUT of shooting/editing wedding videos! Plus I barely have a social life as it is.


Since I've steamlined my process I'm able to do much more work, edit more videos and guess what? The client think the quality is the same, if not better - Mostly because the video is more directed at them and not the place where the wedding was held. I also switched from using 3 DV tapes to a tape and a half. Those tapes are expinsive!!!!

Good luck, and remember to always get paid for your time. And if you are married, it will make your wife much happier too lol. -->>>
Mark I mirror the other response do you mean 1 1/2 tapes for raw footage from the entire wedding?! Well- I guess we all have our own style and workflow. I admittedly make tons of mistakes and the only thing that saves me is over shooting. I usually end up with 2 tapes fromt he reception (from each videographer, me and assistant= 4 tapes) and depending on the amount of cameras I've had as many as 4 tapes from the Ceremony alone. My cam- my assistant- balcony cam (locked)- and floor cam in rear of church (locked).
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Old August 17th, 2004, 05:46 PM   #23
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hi glen

Nice to see you....

In my view after seeing your wedding footage.

Its good for promotion or trailer.. But I think you forgot the basics of editing for wedding...weddings are not at all at any cost a film.

Change the background music......not at all worthful for weddings.
instead of film....try to watch documentaries.
I appreciate your wedding videography its like great cinematography. You have great sutff of art....and eyesight.

You fogot titling....My suggestion for this instead of titling...use the vows of bride and groom as background and play soft music.....not film music.

I know you watched clearly the video " the new video guide to professional wedding videography"

good luck....

vamshi
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Old August 26th, 2004, 02:21 PM   #24
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Re: hi glen

Its good for promotion or trailer.. But I think you forgot the basics of editing for wedding...weddings are not at all at any cost a film.
It's what my clients want- they want the video to have a more filmic look to it.

Change the background music......not at all worthful for weddings.
instead of film....try to watch documentaries.
I appreciate your wedding videography its like great cinematography. You have great sutff of art....and eyesight.

Thank you.

You fogot titling....My suggestion for this instead of titling...use the vows of bride and groom as background and play soft music.....not film music.
I can see adding the audio from the vows over soft music for maybe a highlight reel but this peice served as a bridal prep/intro. I wouldn't want to give away the audio from the vows before it actually occurs in the video. Just my .02

I know you watched clearly the video " the new video guide to professional wedding videography"
Never heard of it actually...lol. What is it?
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Old August 26th, 2004, 07:52 PM   #25
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I thought that the clip was great. Well worth the time for what your doing. The film style is what made it and don't lose that. There was a lot of detail to the color correction as well as the shot selection. Nice.

The music fit wonderfully. Nice pick.

Ben Lynn
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Old August 27th, 2004, 01:29 AM   #26
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Great stuff! No cheese or tack here. This has to be the way forward for weddings, and why shouldn't it look like film.

Whatever you do Glen, you'll always get people try and pull it apart. Don't be misled by them Glen, we need more like you in the business.

So, how many of you critics out there, actually produce wedding progs for a living. Not many I suspect.

I vote we have a look at some of the work of you 'Saturday Professionals' if you dare!
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Old August 27th, 2004, 08:53 PM   #27
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OUTSTANDING!

Normaly, I can watch about a minute and a half of a wedding video and then...ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

Yours actually left me wanting to see how it ended!

I loved the music and the increasing sense of grandeur that it instills in the viewer. The editing was right on the money, the sense of timing, shot selection and camera movement all flowed seamlessly. Overall the whole presentation was excellent.

The build-up was great and if you mixed it up as far different "feels" throughout the rest of the presentation, the folks that hired you got way more than they ever bargained for.

I am my harshest critic when it comes to my work. Even programs that have won multiple awards seem lacking when I replay them. If it were up to me I'd never stop tweaking. As long as you are happy with your end product and it is not sending you to the poor house, take as long as you like. You have to please yourself before you can please anyone else.

As for the comment about the Groom or lack thereof...weddings aren't about the Groom, they're about the Bride. We all know what's on the Groom's mind...honeymoon night, a cheeseburger and a cold beer...in that order. :) The Groom will get his Cameo somewhere in the body of the program.

All this is coming from someone who dislikes wedding videos to the point that I refused to have mine videotaped...and it was going to be free!

Keep up the great work!

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Old August 27th, 2004, 09:50 PM   #28
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Re: OUTSTANDING!

<<<-- Originally posted by Rick Bravo : Normaly, I can watch about a minute and a half of a wedding video and then...ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

Yours actually left me wanting to see how it ended!
I loved the music and the increasing sense of grandeur that it instills in the viewer. The editing was right on the money, the sense of timing, shot selection and camera movement all flowed seamlessly. Overall the whole presentation was excellent.

The build-up was great and if you mixed it up as far different "feels" throughout the rest of the presentation, the folks that hired you got way more than they ever bargained for.

Wow- thank you so much. That's very flattering!




I am my harshest critic when it comes to my work. Even programs that have won multiple awards seem lacking when I replay them. If it were up to me I'd never stop tweaking. As long as you are happy with your end product and it is not sending you to the poor house, take as long as you like. You have to please yourself before you can please anyone else.

I know exactly where your coming from. I never quite feel any peice is finished. I have to exercise great restraint to know when to walk away from a peice. I think this is a process all artists go through. If you weren't your own worst critic you'd be content...not that being content with your work is bad but it's important to ALWAYS strive to improve. I'm well aware *nothing* is perfect, thus I never feel that I can be 100% satisfied with the finished result.

I suppose the most important aspect is if the client enjoys it. In fact I could spend half the time I do now on projects and they'd still enjoy it. I've found the comon public is often easy to please and little videography mistakes that make you and I cringe don't bat and eyelash of the average client. That said I still don't feel this lowers my expectations on my own work. Despite the fact a peice with much less time invested will probably impress the client similarly it wouldn't sit right with me. "I" have to feel good about it despite my harsh critisism. I figure if it's "ok" to me it'll be "great" for them.

Another important thing is to know WHEN to walk away from a peice. As you said- you can continue to tweak ,practically, endlessly. There comes a point where the time your putting into it simply isn't worth it anymore.





As for the comment about the Groom or lack thereof...weddings aren't about the Groom, they're about the Bride. We all know what's on the Groom's mind...honeymoon night, a cheeseburger and a cold beer...in that order. :) The Groom will get his Cameo somewhere in the body of the program.
I agree. Whenever I book weddings and continue corespondence it's always with the bride. I'm positive most of the time videos are for the brides. That's not to say grooms don't enjoy it when it's actually complete. They just don't get as excited at the prospect of it. I've actually had grooms tear up watching the finished their videos.

I do offer groom prep coverage- but this particular couple didn't even pay for pre-ceremony (bridal prep). I offered it to her a few days before the wedding. It benefited the both of us...she gets (light) bridal prep coverage, and I get better shots to help add to my pool when I go to build my first demo. I'm still trying to get the business off the ground. This is only my 5th edited wedding. I've been scoping out the local competition and I don't think anyone is approaching wedding videography quite like I do...in my area that is. So when I do go big time and start bridal shows I want to have enough weddings under my belt to be able to properly showcase my services. I'm by no means a seasoned professional...I'm very much a novice. I look forward to continue plugging away and continue growing as a videographer. Your compliments are very inspiring to me....I thank you for that.





All this is coming from someone who dislikes wedding videos to the point that I refused to have mine videotaped...and it was going to be free!
I'm exactly the same...I don't like being on camera in general- video or still. However I love being behind it. When me and my girlfriend get married we won't be doing a video or a wedding we'll probably alope. Go figure huh! Take care- and thanks again for the kind words!
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Old August 27th, 2004, 10:34 PM   #29
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Re: Re: OUTSTANDING!

<<<-- I've actually had grooms tear up watching the finished their videos. -->>>

Same-sex marriage?
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