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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old August 19th, 2004, 03:19 PM   #16
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hi alex

to alex

Add Some philosophy.....everything will be in your way. I feel it depends on the situation....

Alex when you are showing photographs...you should add audio..like you are clicking the photographs....i mean a sound of photograph click.

Important...instead of making photographs still...move your view or give a moment to the photograph. like left or right or zoom.

Between each clip try to use white color matte....flashing with high density.

Anyway wish you a good luck alex.....



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Old August 22nd, 2004, 08:46 AM   #17
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one thing i hate is wedding videos which have titles as their own little presentation..

How many movies do u see produced these days, which have a static screen with text after text after text of titles??

you dont..

as for that soppy stuff.. dont get me wrong, some couples like that.. but put it this way.. in 20 yrs.. theyre gonna think, WHAT THE F@%k??

Yeah, im brutal, but this is a brutal game we're playing here..
Wedding Video Produciton is more than business, as youre dealing with individual characters... <key point>

OK, heres some suggestions, but this may not be for everyone..

instead, if u want to include something like that, get the couple to choose the words.. I work with audio on a pro level,as much as video if i dare say, so i do recordings of poetry and readings.. this works as it reflects on the couple and its the couple speaking the voiceover.. THAT is the difference here. I am not using my initialtive to include this material coz i want a filler, or coz i want to get someones attention... instead i offer it as part of the package <key point $$>, then THEY choose how its done.. (text or recorded voice)
THIS carries more weight... you'll just have to trust me on that...

with regard to having texts beween fotos... especially the ones menitoned here..
No offense, but people DONT like cheese.. Its inpersonal and doesnt reflect the couples true character... (unless htye gave u the words)

Also this kind of wedding video may seem nice as a demo piece, <which it WILL) but when ur watching it afew times, its gonna make u puke and ur just gonna hit the "next" button the dvd until its over.. another one ur gonna have to trust me on..

Now if the couple njoi this kinda cheesy thing, so be it.. all the power to them and you for piecing it together.. BUT, dont take it upon yourself to include this STYLE of text.

DO NOT, i reiterate, DO NOT attempt to portray something which will not reflect back onto the couple. Its really hard to describe with different cultures, but i can say that there is no point in tryin to begin a "story" like this when you really dont know the background behind it <Another key point... get to know ur client>

They will look upon it as a tacky intro piece which is templated so they will only feel like another number.. you dont want that..

Slideshows as intros.. stick to growing up, how we met, holidays, engagements BUT, DONT GIVE ANYTHING AWAY TOO SOON.. dont show pics the couple in teh intro, dont show the chapel, dont show ANYTHING on the day UNTIL it begins.. then when the video presentation starts, keep everythign linear within the edit..

Keep them in suspense.. i dont understand teh logic in showing a picture of the chapel, before u even see the brides prep.. or showing the cake when the ceremony hasnt happened yet.. this here is something id use as an outro during the credit roll...

Sure be different, but youll be spoiling the surprise...

I know i might sound alil harsh here.. but Wedding video produciton is alot more than jsut filmin and editing a piece.. to do it successffully and get the kind of referals to keep u in business, you NEED to know your couples characters...

You need to allow them the power to decide how its pieced together and what is included.. this saves hassles later on when they say, oh i dont like that song, or oh, i didnt like when uncle bob shouted out from his table during the speech...

I have a 10 page contract....
3 pages of info which they must fill in, 6 pages of terms and conditions for my projects and theyre safeguards and 1 page of a quote which covers their material purchases....

think about it.. 3 pages of info.. from audio, to formats, to text fonts, to images to names, times, places, emergency contacts etc etc

The more info u have, the better off u will be..

This is business with an unstable emotional edge.... never forget that..

ps- in case ur wondering, i DO like what im doing :)
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Old August 22nd, 2004, 05:13 PM   #18
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hi peter

Come on peter....I think its too harsh... After all we are not dealing with wedding here....only a 60 sec promo. You are scaring alex. After all individuals are different....mentalities are different. I dont understand on what point you are so enthusiastic... behind giving this lecture.... What I understood from your point of view is you are viewing in business minded...Afterall professionalism and career matters...

no fireworks please.
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Old August 23rd, 2004, 09:44 AM   #19
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Well said Peter.
This whole business of wedding productions needs to get away from the out-dated cheese and tack that's got the business a bad name.
It's about time we moved forward and dumped this 1980s image.
Maybe then, we can all start commanding a decent price for our labours.
Put your own stamp on it Alex and keep pushing the boundries, it's the only way forward and pay attention to Peters advice, the business need more like him!
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Old August 23rd, 2004, 11:23 AM   #20
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"This whole business of wedding productions needs to get away from the out-dated cheese and tack that's got the business a bad name. "

Im glad someone understands.. :)

Here in oz, its terrible.. we have rank amateurs taking jobs from pros who do this for the artistic nature of the project..

where i work (Video Supply company), we have numerous clients who are pretty much my competition (my persoanl video produciton business), an they have NO CLUE on what theyre doing, BUT theyre charging stupid amount$$..

now good luck to them, but, me as a business (ie, my video production busness) has to compete with these morons who are killing the industry..

BE fresh and natural and dont try too hard..

one thing to note, is that many people want to negotiate price.. which is fair enough.. but do u see anyone goin to Kmart/walmart, getting a hairdryer and at teh counter they say, "I dont want to pay $60 for this. i want to pay $40"
now.. have u ever seen this in kmart?? NO..
Then WHY would someone want to try this type of negotiation for somethign worth a hellofalot more? Coz they want it cheap... but how cheap is too cheap?? and are u settin a precedent for the rest of us??

Just coz u want to charge peanuts for 80+ hrs work, doesnt mean i should.. so whenit comes to negotiations, stick to ur guns.. in teh end, the product costs u virtually nothing. Copies are copies, offer those instead, offer another location or extended time.. but DONT drop your price..

WHY

well put it this way.. your working 80+ hours on a 2 hr edit.. from 10 hrs worth of raw footage across 2 ro 3 cams..

the PHOTOGRAPHER has charged twice, or in most cases, 3 times what u have charged.. his work doesnt go over 20hrs..

so why is he so special and can get away with charging that much? Is he more artisitc than u are? Has he ben in the game longer than u??
who knows who cares.. the fact is, ITS A DIFFERENT PRODUCT and not as complex as video.. did his camera cost 10grand?? wha about his second and third camera?? and waht about tape and film?? how much price differnce are those?? and insurance, and transport and eerythign else??

its that simple..

but the fact that afew fly by nighters have ruined it for th rest of us makes me sick to the stomach considering the amount of work i put into my projects.

a photogrpaher cant offer a perfect speech, a photogrpaher cant offer wellwishing messages from guests and family, a photographer cant offer the first dance, a photographer cant offer 500+ photos taken from tape, a photographer cant offer the little things like the page boy climbing a tree, or the sound of the waves at teh beech.. .. see where im goin with this..

in this game, as harsh as it sounds, its not a get rich quick.. despite what most may think.. it aint gona happen if we keep screwing each other over.. its hard enough makin ends meet as it is without nobhead with his gs170 and windows movie maker gettin into the foray..

so my point..

If your gonna do a wedding, do it well. Dont go overboard with the tools u have <hollywood fx are ok, but i once saw a demo and thats ALL they used.. by the end of it, i forgot the couples names.. it was that distracting>, just use what u have (ie IMAGINATION) effectively and let YOUR WORK show off ur product

If u want an idea of the kind of things i do and tha tim not jstu all talk, head off down to www.studio-d.com.au

no video demos, coz thats my hook.. they see the pics, all good, they wanna see the clip, they have to meet me.. this is where i pitch to them.

it IS a business.. do what u can to make it a successful one
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Old September 2nd, 2004, 08:46 AM   #21
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All well said Peter. Here in the UK it seems to me that there are too many enthusiastic amateurs willing to 'have a go' and making wedding videos and DVD's that are complete rubbish. Some seem to think having a cheap DV camera and a PC running a simple edit package makes them into Steve Speilberg all of a sudden. Ruins the business for the rest of us.

It is annoying when we have invested many 10 of thousands of 's in top quality broadcast equipment, training & education etc. so that the productions we make can be the very best in quality of both audio and video, have all the required licenses and insurances etc. and yet there are 'amateur' people who will do it for pin-money, flaunting all the regulations etc... I even heard of one guy doing it regularly for 150! How can a pro compete (except through referrals of course!)?

Peter I know it's a bit cheeky as you have put a lot of time and effort into it I am sure, but is there any chance of getting a sneak look (or even a copy) of your 'contract'? Your ideas are good ones and I would like to emulate your contract but for the UK market? Lawyers here are a waste of time they want to completely tie up the contracts in language the clients simply cannot understand.
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Old September 2nd, 2004, 03:52 PM   #22
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What are the most common font for wedding video? Do I have to download it somewhere?

And what budget program is good to make nice opening credit text sequence?
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Old September 3rd, 2004, 10:02 AM   #23
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steph, i totally understand where ur coming from.. here is oz, we get a numbnuts buying ags70, and installs ulead studio9 and thinks he can videos comparable to something shot with 2 DVX100's run thru Vegas and PremPro.. no shit, ive seen it happen and the bastards make it harder for us to compete, especially when they advetise teh fact..

i can honestly say that ive lost count on how much $$ i have spent in setting up my business.. i'll have to look into my books, but only now, almost a year later, am i starting to see regualr booking and queries through 2 advertising avenues..

oh and the most amazing thing i have seen??

guys who have been "in the industry" (and advertise the fact) for over a decade but have NO CLUE as to what theyre doing..
but, no, these guyus are still gettin 2/3 bookings a week and one guy i know has a backlog of 5 months worth of editing to complete.. god knows how he has stayed in business..

as for my contract, drop me an email, i have posted it in the business section, but ive some amendments since then. So llong as its not leached word for word, im cool with people using it coz we NEED something liek this cover our asses..

People exect so much from video... and rightly so but BEFORE the day its usually treated as an afterthought...so they want to pay a minimal amount. its only after teh fact that they realsie that this is more valuable than a book of images..

I like photogrpahy, dont get me wrong, but theyre costs are UNJUSTIFIED compared to ours..

common font?? dude, dont worry about it.. ask the Brida and groom what font THEYRE using on the invitation and use that one :)
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Old September 4th, 2004, 01:24 PM   #24
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In response to this post :)

Come on peter....I think its too harsh... After all we are not dealing with wedding here....only a 60 sec promo.

((okies, fair enough a 60sec promo, BUT what people will see will be what they believe their video will look like.. if people see one style of something, they will subconciously believe that their day will be presented like this too..
Thats not the case as we all know aseach wedding is different.. the format may be the same, but each wedding SHOULD be treated differently..

You are scaring alex. After all individuals are different....mentalities are different. I dont understand on what point you are so enthusiastic... behind giving this lecture....

((the point.. well there are many.. first and formost, this is business... secondly its a customised service.. much like a massage.. but like a massage, the masseur will ask you what u like and what u dont like.. this is the same.. now if a couple tell me what they like and I give them something they DONT like.. what happens to my business then??
See where im goin with this?? Theres alot more to it.. I remember reading one thread where the poster mentions that there is a set format.. and they are right.. but HOW we utilise that series if events within that format is what makes it work (or not) i mean do u cut from one scene to the other, or do u create a 5 minute transitional piece?

AS for my enthusiasm.. well, like i said, if we dodnt njoi what we do, we shouldnt be doing it.. it will show up in the product... ))

What I understood from your point of view is you are viewing in business minded...Afterall professionalism and career matters...

((yes, there is that.. but more importantly, its about the client.. know the client and you will know your edit at the time of filming.. It will peice itself together without you having to think too much.. ))

no fireworks please.

((??????? this is a cool thread.. see one thing im tryin to convey is that if you want to add text.. do it smartly.. :)
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Old September 12th, 2004, 08:01 PM   #25
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<<<-- Originally posted by Alex Chan : What are the most common font for wedding video? Do I have to download it somewhere?

And what budget program is good to make nice opening credit text sequence? -->>>
Alex, Most common fonts does not means the best or ideal font, There is no golden rule here, also it depends on the video's intension. Normally (if is a very romantice scene you can use something cursive - as a traditional wed invitation) if is something more energetic you can use something bold. But as I said there is no rule here, a soft animated text with differents layers and transparency also looks nice... use your imagination.

You can download some good fonts for free, search at Google for free fonts...

About the program... what NLE are you using? As far as I know all of them has capabilities for text: Premiere, Vegas, Pinnacle, Edius (TitleMotion Pro), FCP, Motion, the list goes on and on... ease of use, budget, time consuming are the factors to consider that come to my mind.

Hope this help.

Also agree with Mike Rehmus: Check out some Wedding invitations.
Luck
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