Why do Photographers...?

Jim Snow · September 8th, 2009, 10:55 AM

The intent of the question I posed in this thread is - How can you make it better; it was not to cast a negative tone on photographers. The vast majority are professional and considerate of the job that others have to do. My question is aimed at getting ideas from others about ways they have used to deal with the problem case that comes up from time to time. Let me pose a specific example and ask for input on how you would deal with that particular situation. Please keep it positive, not as an opportunity to dump on photographers. The bottom line is: How can we provide the best service to the B&G even when there is a problem.

- Last summer I helped a friend shoot an outdoor wedding at a seaside hotel in Monterey, CA. It was on an outdoor patio which had a very large open area behind the audience seating area. My friend set up his DSR-300 on a tripod in the back for a good angle of the bridal party when they entered. His camera was about 20 feet from the last row of seats and on the side. The photographer asked him to move his camera - twice. My friend politely obliged with a smile on his face. During the ceremony, I was on the right side isle with my camera on a tripod about three feet from the seats. There was about ten feet of open space behind me. The photographer walked in front of me several times during the ceremony. A couple of times she looked at my camera as she walked by. It was clear that she knew she was blocking my shot. She was doing so very much on purpose. Apparently she felt that she owned the venue. Prior to the ceremony, we were VERY courteous and accommodating to her. I wonder if we were too courteous - to the extent that she lost her respect for us? We didn't say anything to her even after the wedding was over. We only wanted to do ONE thing - do the best job we could for the B&G. The DJ and Hotel event coordinator were also very upset with her because she took over an hour more than scheduled for photographs between the ceremony and the reception. It threw off the kitchen staff timing. The mariachi band was concerned about being late for a gig later in the evening. There are people who are like that. What tips do you have for dealing with them? I'm looking for helpful suggestions not criticism or "mutated" bragging.

Ken Diewert · September 8th, 2009, 11:13 AM

Jim,

Being that these productions are growing in value, maybe a more formal pre-production meeting is worth having. I've found that B&G's just assume that everything will work smoothly. The rehearsal provides probably the best opportunity for this. It's an opportunity to discuss camera angles and coverages for both the photo and video in front of the B&G or a representative.

Richard Wakefield · September 8th, 2009, 11:23 AM

hiya Jim,

i'd say many of us have been in a very similar problem at one time or another.
There isn't a perfect answer because there are so many solutions and so many outcomes (some good, some bad!)

In an extreme case, I've tapped on the shoulder of a photographer blatently in my way during the vows, and they have been absolutely fine with it (i.e. respected my position), but another might react or go out of their way to annoy even more. I suppose if it depends if they have had a bad day, hate their job etc etc!

Nothing really worries me anymore due to always filming multi-cam, but yes, i can see you want the very best shot from every angle. I mean, I personally keep the tog in my shots (if they are in the way) coz i see it as they are part of the day, and in some shots help to tell a story. I've never once to this day been criticised for not chopping them out. Any of my online demos will show you I use the tog to my advantage in some shots.

Sorry, I don't know where I'm going with this!

Some togs only work well with you if you rub their ego (and pretend to be in awe of their cameras), and some work well if you stay on their level (arrogrant/like you own the place). But unfortunately, it's mainly from bad experience with a videographer in the past, that causes some to act like you describe.

What I do for each and every wedding is to approach the tog ASAP at the start of the day, and announce how unobtrusive I will be, how I will not get in their way because I know how important the photos are to the B+G, and say 'you can walk around freely doing your thing because i am filming multi-cam so it's no worry'. Giving them this psychological power somehow has a great effect on them, and they actually end up respecting the way I work all day long. (and very rarely getting in any important shots)

Jim Snow · September 8th, 2009, 12:24 PM

Thanks Ken and Richard - great tips! Your suggestion of a shooting planning meeting at the rehearsal is a good one. If that isn't possible, a telecon beforehand can be helpful as an alternative. On the positive side, the preplanning is good. It's good for everyone to understand camera positions etc. On the more subtle side, it gives you the opportunity to get a better understanding of the photographer's personality. Based on that, to be a little facetious, you can decide whether it would be better to swoon in admiration of their camera or demand their respect.

Richard, I think you have a very good point when you point out that the reason some photographers have an attitude is because of their reaction to a previous bad experience with a videographer. I would love to hear constructive input from a photographer's POV on this.

Vito DeFilippo · September 8th, 2009, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Snow

you can decide whether it would be better to swoon in admiration of their camera or demand their respect.

Personally, I stay away from feeding the photographer's ego. It just perpetuates the idea that they are more important than we, and should indeed control the day and monopolize any available time.

I introduce myself, tell them I look forward to working with them, mention they should feel free to tell me if I am in their way, and offer to do the same in return. Then do your best to work as a team and make the B&G happy. Why should we cringe and pretend we don't matter, then complain about it later?

I also think it's a little unrealistic to expect the photographer to always stay out of your shot, especially when you are telephoto and s/he might not even know where you are.

Travis Cossel · September 8th, 2009, 06:44 PM

A few tips ...

First, contact the photographer BEFORE the wedding day. Discuss with them on the phone your shooting style and initiate a conversation on how you can collaborate together. Talk to them as equals. Be polite, but be assertive as a professional as well.

Second, on the wedding day, collaborate with the photographer and make sure they get the feeling it's a 2-way street. I might say this, "Hey, my plan is to put a camera here, here and there. This one will have a tighter shot, so if you need to shoot up the aisle in front of it and you crouch down, you should be out of the shot. Is that going to work for you?" This way you acknowledge that he has a job and needs to get shots too, but you also let him know you have a plan that has been thought out (many photographers don't have much of a plan, so this will get them on with yours).

Third, understand that the photographer will not always remember what you told them. Most of them in my market are used to working alone, with no video present. So they aren't prepared and experienced to keep us in mind. So be prepared for 'what if' situations. IF the photographer ends up in front of camera 2, does your assistant know to tap them on the shoulder or will he just keep filming? If he ends up in front of the unmanned cam 3, will you have any way of getting him out of the way? Think things over and plan them well .. and do NOT count on the photographer's cooperation.

Fourth, if a photographer EVER gets in your shot on purpose or does so with complete disregard, call them on it. Don't yell at them. Take them aside and remind them that you are both there for the bride and groom and if he's going to be a problem then you're going to bring it up with the bride and groom. IMPORTANT; while having this conversation, roll a camera and have it aimed at the photographer in case they decide to act like an ass to you. They'll never live that down once they bride and groom sees it (maybe even show it to them that night if the guy is really being a problem).

On a nice side note, it's not always the paid 'photographer' that can be a problem. I shot a wedding this weekend where I set up an unmanned camera to shoot the first dance through a window in a gazebo. The gazebo had like 4 windows, but for whatever reason several guests flocked to the one window I was filming through to shoot with their point-and-shoots. I went over and politely suggested that they shoot through a different window since we were filming through that one. Everyone but the MoB left, so tapped her on the shoulder and politely repeated the message .. thinking maybe she hadn't heard me. Her response? Besides an annoyed glare, she said "TFB" before she walked away. I paused for a second and then said, "Tell the couple that." d;-)

Philip Howells · September 8th, 2009, 07:06 PM

I belong to the contact the photographer before party - and if it does nothing practical at least it gives you a clue as to how they're going to be on the day.

The worst reaction I ever had was that the photographer contacted the client and demanded "precedence". The client asked me what I thought she meant to which I replied, "I think she means I'm going to be filming a lot of her behind" - and there was a lot to film but that's another story. The client sorted her out - pointing out that he was paying us both and expected us to co-operate. Anyway, on the day, the priest asked her buddy to leave the church because he was disrupting the ceremony so they got their come uppance in the end.

I like Travis' idea of filming your very reasonable request - good idea.

Finally, I know we often learn something new on these forums but I'm at a loss to understand Travis' "TFB". Would someone care to enlighten an old Brit - by PM if it's too rude to put in the main forum.

Vito DeFilippo · September 8th, 2009, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis Cossel

First, contact the photographer BEFORE the wedding day.

You know, I agree with almost everything you say, Travis, except this. Again, you're just demonstrating to the photographer that they are more important, and need to be called. You would never catch a photographer calling you before the event, right?

That's why I wait until the day of to make it clear that we're working together, and that I'm not just some sort of annoying fly buzzing around the important king of the event. And by making it clear, I don't mean by confrontation, but by doing as you suggest. Telling them how you will be working, and courteously suggesting that you can do it together to give the bride and groom what they've paid for.

Anyway, I'm in the fortunate position of working with the same guys over and over, so the problem doesn't come up much for me. A couple of times a year, maybe.

Travis Cossel · September 8th, 2009, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip Howells

Finally, I know we often learn something new on these forums but I'm at a loss to understand Travis' "TFB".

TFB = Too ---- Bad

Travis Cossel · September 8th, 2009, 11:33 PM

First, I think it's pointless to get into a 'who called who first' thing. Look, if a photographer is going to look at you calling as some sign of you being beneath them .. then either they are already going to be a pain to work with (in which case now you know BEFORE the wedding day) .. or you are doing something wrong when you talk to them.

I've called countless photographers before the wedding and they have ALL had the exact opposite reaction you fear. Instead of feeling like I am pandering to them, they are immediately impressed with my professionalism. It's really important HOW you talk to them and WHAT you say if you want the best result. Talk about collaboration and be polite but assertive. Trust me. It works.

The worst case scenario is that you call a photographer and they blow you off on the phone. Now they've made it clear they have no intention of working with you, right? Well, my next call goes to the bride and groom to express my concern, and then they will call the photographer and straighten him/her out. Sure, I could wait until the wedding day to do all of this, but why? Why wait until the couple's big day to bring drama to them?

Trust me. Do it beforehand and you'll be glad you did.

Andrew Smith · September 9th, 2009, 12:42 AM

I'm inclined to leave the interruptive photograper in the final edit. All the B&Gs friends watching the DVD will see the photog as "that jerk photographer" and won't want him to so much as be present at their upcoming wedding.

Maybe I'm becoming even more cynical and jaded .... but I can't be bothered with distorting reality any more. Let idiots be seen as idiots.

On the other hand, you could always post the two "Can You Find The Photographer" clips to the photog ahead of time and let them work it out for themselves. Both of those clips are absolute gold!

Andrew

Vito DeFilippo · September 9th, 2009, 06:02 AM

I'm not getting into a "who called first thing." Of course they are happy you called them. You've showed them how important they are. That's my point. If you've called countless photographers before a wedding, has even ONE extended the same courtesy to you?

I'm guessing no, because you don't rate high enough on the importance scale. For sure not one has ever called me. And it's not the pissing match you envision. It's a matter of perpetuating the situation by always treating the photographer that s/he is more important than you. And then we have thread after thread in which we whine that the photographer walks all over us and pays no attention to our placement. Well, you reap what you sow.

You're a professional at the same level who is there to do a job. Say hello like a professional and make it clear that you are there for the same reason, and expect to work professionally together toward the same goal.

That has worked very well for me. I've tried your system in the past before and it works, too, but it makes it clear that I am the subordinate, which I want to avoid.

Quote:

Well, my next call goes to the bride and groom to express my concern, and then they will call the photographer and straighten him/her out.

There's no way I'm going to cry to them just because some guy was mean to me on the phone.

Quote:

Sure, I could wait until the wedding day to do all of this, but why? Why wait until the couple's big day to bring drama to them?

I would never bring drama to them for any reason. If I can't handle myself well enough to get the job done well without wrecking their mood, I don't belong there.

Quote:

Trust me. Do it beforehand and you'll be glad you did.

I do trust you, Travis, and I've tried that method, and it does work. But I refuse to pay the price anymore.

All the best,
Vito

Jeff Harper · September 9th, 2009, 07:08 AM

One sign that a photographer might do what happened to Jim is that they are standing next to you in the rear without a zoom lens or tripod. Virtually all the better photographers seem to have a zoom lens and tripod in place toward the end of the ceremony. Or they might be down at the altar waiting but will get a couple of quick shots and move to the side and have an assistant in the rear get the rest.

I had the same thing that happened to Jim happen to me. Seemed to be getting along fine all day long, though the photographer had made some snide comments which I had ignored. Just before the couple kissed on the altar the photographer ran down the aisle and completely blocked everything and walked backward during the processional completely ruining any chance I had of getting ANY shot.

Since this guy had been bragging on his 30 years of wedding photography experience it was clear he clearly knew exactly what he had done, and he obviously did it routinely.

It was also clear from the look on the photog's face that he was pleased with himself. He apparently thought the look of shock on my face was funny as he sneered at me when he turned around. At this point I wasn't mad, I was livid.

I got in his face and even though he was easily twice my size, when I was done with him he stayed very far from me the rest of the night. To say that I got in his face is putting it mildly.

I was later given a DVD of the photos from the client and his work was absolute crap: out of focus/overexposed shots all day long. I have never lost my temper before or since the way I did that day, but can honestly say I doubt I would handle it differently today.

Photographers get in my shots from time to time. I really like photographers. I sympathize with them, photography is tough, and I don't expect them to always remember where I am. I am a beginning photographer, and I find it extremely difficult to get good shots, let alone worry about the postition of the video camera.

But there is no excuse for not having a fast zoom or 200mm prime and tripod ready for the blessing and kiss, or to be down front where you can pop out for a quick shot or two. Otherwise, your dealing with a glorified amateur too cheap to invest in decent equipement.

The problem with a VERY FEW of these guys is they are too cheap to spend $2k on a decent zoom, or even $1k on a good fixed lens that will give them the shot they need. Most photographers really invest heavily into good equipment, so it is usually not an issue.

Virtually all photographers I work with are great pros that I enjoy working with. I depend on them, and find the collaboration a great help in my work; but every once in a while I get stuck with an amateur who thinks he is a pro. That's when the fur flies.

Noel Lising · September 9th, 2009, 07:29 AM

Jeff, I think the thing with old school photogs are the habits they developed throughout their career, 30 years ago they do not have to work with a videographer, some photogs are comfortable using lens without zoom in capabilities and even if they do have one they tend to shoot old school, move in for close-ups, shoot very far for group shots, etc, etc.

I guess that particular photog really broke your straw, I have never confronted a photog and I certainly hope I never will.

Jeff Harper · September 9th, 2009, 07:48 AM

Yes Noel, you are correct, the older guys seem to have the most trouble, though I once had a young, married team of photogs who were famous in this area for being difficult; I stood up to them and my bride and her sister actually clapped and laughed. They were THAT rude and difficult, and even she had seen enough. It takes something deliberate coupled with a bad attitude to get me to that point, but these things happen at most once a year. I go to great lengths to get along, but even I have limits.

September 8th, 2009, 11:13 AM	#17
Ken Diewert Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vancouver Island, Canada Posts: 747	Jim, Being that these productions are growing in value, maybe a more formal pre-production meeting is worth having. I've found that B&G's just assume that everything will work smoothly. The rehearsal provides probably the best opportunity for this. It's an opportunity to discuss camera angles and coverages for both the photo and video in front of the B&G or a representative. __________________ XLH1, HV30, 5DMk2, Sigma 15mm f2.8 fisheye, Canon 50mm f1.4, 17-40L f4, 70-200L f2.8, Lens Baby.

September 8th, 2009, 11:23 AM	#18
Richard Wakefield Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Surrey, UK Posts: 565	hiya Jim, i'd say many of us have been in a very similar problem at one time or another. There isn't a perfect answer because there are so many solutions and so many outcomes (some good, some bad!) In an extreme case, I've tapped on the shoulder of a photographer blatently in my way during the vows, and they have been absolutely fine with it (i.e. respected my position), but another might react or go out of their way to annoy even more. I suppose if it depends if they have had a bad day, hate their job etc etc! Nothing really worries me anymore due to always filming multi-cam, but yes, i can see you want the very best shot from every angle. I mean, I personally keep the tog in my shots (if they are in the way) coz i see it as they are part of the day, and in some shots help to tell a story. I've never once to this day been criticised for not chopping them out. Any of my online demos will show you I use the tog to my advantage in some shots. Sorry, I don't know where I'm going with this! Some togs only work well with you if you rub their ego (and pretend to be in awe of their cameras), and some work well if you stay on their level (arrogrant/like you own the place). But unfortunately, it's mainly from bad experience with a videographer in the past, that causes some to act like you describe. What I do for each and every wedding is to approach the tog ASAP at the start of the day, and announce how unobtrusive I will be, how I will not get in their way because I know how important the photos are to the B+G, and say 'you can walk around freely doing your thing because i am filming multi-cam so it's no worry'. Giving them this psychological power somehow has a great effect on them, and they actually end up respecting the way I work all day long. (and very rarely getting in any important shots) __________________ Weddings: http://www.fxfilms.co.uk Corporate: http://www.fxmedia.co.uk

September 8th, 2009, 06:44 PM	#21
Travis Cossel Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 2,249	A few tips ... First, contact the photographer BEFORE the wedding day. Discuss with them on the phone your shooting style and initiate a conversation on how you can collaborate together. Talk to them as equals. Be polite, but be assertive as a professional as well. Second, on the wedding day, collaborate with the photographer and make sure they get the feeling it's a 2-way street. I might say this, "Hey, my plan is to put a camera here, here and there. This one will have a tighter shot, so if you need to shoot up the aisle in front of it and you crouch down, you should be out of the shot. Is that going to work for you?" This way you acknowledge that he has a job and needs to get shots too, but you also let him know you have a plan that has been thought out (many photographers don't have much of a plan, so this will get them on with yours). Third, understand that the photographer will not always remember what you told them. Most of them in my market are used to working alone, with no video present. So they aren't prepared and experienced to keep us in mind. So be prepared for 'what if' situations. IF the photographer ends up in front of camera 2, does your assistant know to tap them on the shoulder or will he just keep filming? If he ends up in front of the unmanned cam 3, will you have any way of getting him out of the way? Think things over and plan them well .. and do NOT count on the photographer's cooperation. Fourth, if a photographer EVER gets in your shot on purpose or does so with complete disregard, call them on it. Don't yell at them. Take them aside and remind them that you are both there for the bride and groom and if he's going to be a problem then you're going to bring it up with the bride and groom. IMPORTANT; while having this conversation, roll a camera and have it aimed at the photographer in case they decide to act like an ass to you. They'll never live that down once they bride and groom sees it (maybe even show it to them that night if the guy is really being a problem). On a nice side note, it's not always the paid 'photographer' that can be a problem. I shot a wedding this weekend where I set up an unmanned camera to shoot the first dance through a window in a gazebo. The gazebo had like 4 windows, but for whatever reason several guests flocked to the one window I was filming through to shoot with their point-and-shoots. I went over and politely suggested that they shoot through a different window since we were filming through that one. Everyone but the MoB left, so tapped her on the shoulder and politely repeated the message .. thinking maybe she hadn't heard me. Her response? Besides an annoyed glare, she said "TFB" before she walked away. I paused for a second and then said, "Tell the couple that." d;-) __________________ Serendipity Studios www.beyondordinary.net

September 8th, 2009, 07:06 PM	#22
Philip Howells Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 175	I belong to the contact the photographer before party - and if it does nothing practical at least it gives you a clue as to how they're going to be on the day. The worst reaction I ever had was that the photographer contacted the client and demanded "precedence". The client asked me what I thought she meant to which I replied, "I think she means I'm going to be filming a lot of her behind" - and there was a lot to film but that's another story. The client sorted her out - pointing out that he was paying us both and expected us to co-operate. Anyway, on the day, the priest asked her buddy to leave the church because he was disrupting the ceremony so they got their come uppance in the end. I like Travis' idea of filming your very reasonable request - good idea. Finally, I know we often learn something new on these forums but I'm at a loss to understand Travis' "TFB". Would someone care to enlighten an old Brit - by PM if it's too rude to put in the main forum. __________________ Philip www.phpweddings.co.uk

September 8th, 2009, 11:33 PM	#25
Travis Cossel Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 2,249	First, I think it's pointless to get into a 'who called who first' thing. Look, if a photographer is going to look at you calling as some sign of you being beneath them .. then either they are already going to be a pain to work with (in which case now you know BEFORE the wedding day) .. or you are doing something wrong when you talk to them. I've called countless photographers before the wedding and they have ALL had the exact opposite reaction you fear. Instead of feeling like I am pandering to them, they are immediately impressed with my professionalism. It's really important HOW you talk to them and WHAT you say if you want the best result. Talk about collaboration and be polite but assertive. Trust me. It works. The worst case scenario is that you call a photographer and they blow you off on the phone. Now they've made it clear they have no intention of working with you, right? Well, my next call goes to the bride and groom to express my concern, and then they will call the photographer and straighten him/her out. Sure, I could wait until the wedding day to do all of this, but why? Why wait until the couple's big day to bring drama to them? Trust me. Do it beforehand and you'll be glad you did. __________________ Serendipity Studios www.beyondordinary.net

September 8th, 2009, 10:55 AM	#16
Jim Snow Major Player Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Santa Clara, CA Posts: 356	The intent of the question I posed in this thread is - How can you make it better; it was not to cast a negative tone on photographers. The vast majority are professional and considerate of the job that others have to do. My question is aimed at getting ideas from others about ways they have used to deal with the problem case that comes up from time to time. Let me pose a specific example and ask for input on how you would deal with that particular situation. Please keep it positive, not as an opportunity to dump on photographers. The bottom line is: How can we provide the best service to the B&G even when there is a problem. - Last summer I helped a friend shoot an outdoor wedding at a seaside hotel in Monterey, CA. It was on an outdoor patio which had a very large open area behind the audience seating area. My friend set up his DSR-300 on a tripod in the back for a good angle of the bridal party when they entered. His camera was about 20 feet from the last row of seats and on the side. The photographer asked him to move his camera - twice. My friend politely obliged with a smile on his face. During the ceremony, I was on the right side isle with my camera on a tripod about three feet from the seats. There was about ten feet of open space behind me. The photographer walked in front of me several times during the ceremony. A couple of times she looked at my camera as she walked by. It was clear that she knew she was blocking my shot. She was doing so very much on purpose. Apparently she felt that she owned the venue. Prior to the ceremony, we were VERY courteous and accommodating to her. I wonder if we were too courteous - to the extent that she lost her respect for us? We didn't say anything to her even after the wedding was over. We only wanted to do ONE thing - do the best job we could for the B&G. The DJ and Hotel event coordinator were also very upset with her because she took over an hour more than scheduled for photographs between the ceremony and the reception. It threw off the kitchen staff timing. The mariachi band was concerned about being late for a gig later in the evening. There are people who are like that. What tips do you have for dealing with them? I'm looking for helpful suggestions not criticism or "mutated" bragging.

September 8th, 2009, 12:24 PM	#19
Jim Snow Major Player Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Santa Clara, CA Posts: 356	Thanks Ken and Richard - great tips! Your suggestion of a shooting planning meeting at the rehearsal is a good one. If that isn't possible, a telecon beforehand can be helpful as an alternative. On the positive side, the preplanning is good. It's good for everyone to understand camera positions etc. On the more subtle side, it gives you the opportunity to get a better understanding of the photographer's personality. Based on that, to be a little facetious, you can decide whether it would be better to swoon in admiration of their camera or demand their respect. Richard, I think you have a very good point when you point out that the reason some photographers have an attitude is because of their reaction to a previous bad experience with a videographer. I would love to hear constructive input from a photographer's POV on this.

September 9th, 2009, 12:42 AM	#26
Andrew Smith Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 292	I'm inclined to leave the interruptive photograper in the final edit. All the B&Gs friends watching the DVD will see the photog as "that jerk photographer" and won't want him to so much as be present at their upcoming wedding. Maybe I'm becoming even more cynical and jaded .... but I can't be bothered with distorting reality any more. Let idiots be seen as idiots. On the other hand, you could always post the two "Can You Find The Photographer" clips to the photog ahead of time and let them work it out for themselves. Both of those clips are absolute gold! Andrew

September 9th, 2009, 07:08 AM	#28
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 2,974	One sign that a photographer might do what happened to Jim is that they are standing next to you in the rear without a zoom lens or tripod. Virtually all the better photographers seem to have a zoom lens and tripod in place toward the end of the ceremony. Or they might be down at the altar waiting but will get a couple of quick shots and move to the side and have an assistant in the rear get the rest. I had the same thing that happened to Jim happen to me. Seemed to be getting along fine all day long, though the photographer had made some snide comments which I had ignored. Just before the couple kissed on the altar the photographer ran down the aisle and completely blocked everything and walked backward during the processional completely ruining any chance I had of getting ANY shot. Since this guy had been bragging on his 30 years of wedding photography experience it was clear he clearly knew exactly what he had done, and he obviously did it routinely. It was also clear from the look on the photog's face that he was pleased with himself. He apparently thought the look of shock on my face was funny as he sneered at me when he turned around. At this point I wasn't mad, I was livid. I got in his face and even though he was easily twice my size, when I was done with him he stayed very far from me the rest of the night. To say that I got in his face is putting it mildly. I was later given a DVD of the photos from the client and his work was absolute crap: out of focus/overexposed shots all day long. I have never lost my temper before or since the way I did that day, but can honestly say I doubt I would handle it differently today. Photographers get in my shots from time to time. I really like photographers. I sympathize with them, photography is tough, and I don't expect them to always remember where I am. I am a beginning photographer, and I find it extremely difficult to get good shots, let alone worry about the postition of the video camera. But there is no excuse for not having a fast zoom or 200mm prime and tripod ready for the blessing and kiss, or to be down front where you can pop out for a quick shot or two. Otherwise, your dealing with a glorified amateur too cheap to invest in decent equipement. The problem with a VERY FEW of these guys is they are too cheap to spend $2k on a decent zoom, or even $1k on a good fixed lens that will give them the shot they need. Most photographers really invest heavily into good equipment, so it is usually not an issue. Virtually all photographers I work with are great pros that I enjoy working with. I depend on them, and find the collaboration a great help in my work; but every once in a while I get stuck with an amateur who thinks he is a pro. That's when the fur flies.

September 9th, 2009, 07:29 AM	#29
Noel Lising Major Player Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 415	Jeff, I think the thing with old school photogs are the habits they developed throughout their career, 30 years ago they do not have to work with a videographer, some photogs are comfortable using lens without zoom in capabilities and even if they do have one they tend to shoot old school, move in for close-ups, shoot very far for group shots, etc, etc. I guess that particular photog really broke your straw, I have never confronted a photog and I certainly hope I never will. __________________ Noel Lising http://www.digitalstudioasia.blogspot.com/

September 9th, 2009, 07:48 AM	#30
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 2,974	Yes Noel, you are correct, the older guys seem to have the most trouble, though I once had a young, married team of photogs who were famous in this area for being difficult; I stood up to them and my bride and her sister actually clapped and laughed. They were THAT rude and difficult, and even she had seen enough. It takes something deliberate coupled with a bad attitude to get me to that point, but these things happen at most once a year. I go to great lengths to get along, but even I have limits.

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