Why do Photographers...?

Travis Cossel · September 9th, 2009, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vito DeFilippo

I'm not getting into a "who called first thing." Of course they are happy you called them. You've showed them how important they are. That's my point. If you've called countless photographers before a wedding, has even ONE extended the same courtesy to you?

But you ARE getting into a 'who called who first' thing. Who cares if another photographer has never called you. Set a precedent. Be pro-active and professional and it will pay off.

You keep saying that 'calling first' means you set yourself up as subordinate. But I'm telling you I've done this dozens of times and have always .. ALWAYS ... had the exact OPPOSITE response from the photographer. Since implementing the 'call first' system I now have photographers on the wedding day asking if they are in my way .. asking if I have gotten what I need .. coming to me to keep me informed of situations. Does that sound like I'm subordinate to them?

Travis Cossel · September 9th, 2009, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vito DeFilippo

There's no way I'm going to cry to them just because some guy was mean to me on the phone.

I never suggest 'crying' to them because someone was 'mean' to you. If you call a photographer and they express they have no intention of cooperating with you on the wedding day, then I suggest you call the bride and groom and inform them and let them set the photographer straight.

If I had a corporate client for a live event and I called the sound tech to discuss audio feeds and he was completely uncooperative, you can bet I'd be calling the client back to have them set the sound tech straight. Why is it less professional to act this way for a wedding?

Jim Snow · September 9th, 2009, 01:25 PM

I suspect it has a lot to do with the way you handle the call. If you sound like Gomer Snurdly and project a perception that you are weak and subordinate, then you established the tone of your relationship. If you project a cordial but professional and in-charge demeanor, you will be treated accordingly.

Travis Cossel · September 9th, 2009, 01:43 PM

Exactly, Jim. Be polite, professional, friendly .. but assertive. It's really not that hard.

Vito DeFilippo · September 9th, 2009, 02:47 PM

All right, Travis. We'll agree to disagree.

All the best,
Vito

Travis Cossel · September 9th, 2009, 03:04 PM

No problem, Vito. d;-)

Michael Ojjeh · September 9th, 2009, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Smith

I'm inclined to leave the interruptive photograper in the final edit. All the B&Gs friends watching the DVD will see the photog as "that jerk photographer" and won't want him to so much as be present at their upcoming wedding.

Andrew

It really works, two weeks ago I shot a wedding for the brother of the groom in the first clip I posted (Can you find the photographer) and that clip was more then three years ago. When the couple came to our office to meet I asked 'who is your photographer ?' and both said not the jerk that did my brother, he will never do a weeding for our family (and they have a big family).

So just do your job, be professional it will pay off, If the photog wants to be a jerk, let him be and keep the camera rolling :):)

Tim Harjo · September 10th, 2009, 04:15 AM

Honestly, the more I read about this, the more I think that the ones bothered most by photogs in a shot are... us.

Chris Hurd · September 10th, 2009, 05:02 AM

Fully agree with you on that one, Tim. I've never once received a complaint about having a photographer in the shot.

Andrew Smith · September 10th, 2009, 05:56 AM

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the feedback on that one. Very interesting indeed! (and I note that they were coming back to you for the repeat business, too)

Andrew

Vito DeFilippo · September 10th, 2009, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Harjo

Honestly, the more I read about this, the more I think that the ones bothered most by photogs in a shot are... us.

I agree as well. In fact, I put them in the shot on purpose once in a while. I figure they are part of the day, and it adds to the realism to show the process in action here and there.

Of course, when I do this, the composition is to my choosing, not a shot of some guy just blocking me or whatever.

Jeff Harper · September 10th, 2009, 07:00 AM

I find most photographers are very considerate and they will often tell me that they will try and stay out of my shots when we first meet. I tell them that I expect them to be in some of my shots, because that is part of what is happening, as Vito says.

William Smyth · September 10th, 2009, 07:42 AM

I have had almost entirely positive experiences with the photographers I shoot with. If you think about it, it's beneficial for everyone involved for the videographer and photographer to get along. The couple gets a better project and if you leave the other vender with a positive vibe at the end of the day, it's more likely you may end up with a referral.

An anecdote: Before I was shooting weddings on my own, I was shooting for another company. One one particular wedding, it was raining. Rather than go to a park and shoot outdoors as planned, the photographer decided to bring the bridal party back to his studio for the formals. Once there, he told me, I was forbidden from shooting in his building. Now, this particular bride was the cousin of the owner of the video company. The video was his gift to her. So, I without getting worked up, I mentioned the the bride that I wasn't allowed to shoot at the studio and that I was going to head to the reception site. She told the photographer that she really wanted the formals on video. He relented. I could tell, he was pissed at me for the remainder of the day, but in the end I got the shots I needed.

Jeff Kellam · September 11th, 2009, 09:24 AM

As others have said, it's best to talk to the photog before the wedding. The only real time to do this is at the rehearsal. At the rehearsal you can usually see how things are going to work out (aisle width, etc.), assuming the photog is there.

Also, at large & crowded weddings, I believe you just need more cameras and/or timeslipped footage to keep the shots clear. The processional and recessional are always difficult for multiple people to get a shot of, that's just part of the deal. I have never had a B&G complain when its' blocked footage, that's real life.

The digital camera age has contributed to all this. When shooting film, the photogs didn't just continuously shoot the entire time, they actually planned their shots. Now days they just spray & pray, essentially making a stop action movie of the entire event. Does the photog really need 30 shots of the recessional just to get one keeper?

Paul Mailath · September 12th, 2009, 10:52 PM

This is an interesting thread but I have a sneaky suspision that the photogs are beating us to the punch, I had a bride today say that she wanted to make sure we didn't get in the photogs way (I didn't press her too much) but I suspect that her allready booked photog had mentioned it.

I also happened to see some stills for a wedding I did a couple of months back and it included about 8 shots that had me in the background. It didn't occur to me at the time but maybe the photog included them to prove a point (I thought we worked together pretty well).

perhaps the opposite conversation to this one is going on right now in a photogs forum?????

September 9th, 2009, 01:43 PM	#34
Travis Cossel Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 2,249	Exactly, Jim. Be polite, professional, friendly .. but assertive. It's really not that hard. __________________ Serendipity Studios www.beyondordinary.net

September 9th, 2009, 02:47 PM	#35
Vito DeFilippo Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 1,251	All right, Travis. We'll agree to disagree. All the best, Vito __________________ . http://www.nosmallroles.com

September 9th, 2009, 03:04 PM	#36
Travis Cossel Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 2,249	No problem, Vito. d;-) __________________ Serendipity Studios www.beyondordinary.net

September 10th, 2009, 05:02 AM	#39
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 23,174 Images: 513	Fully agree with you on that one, Tim. I've never once received a complaint about having a photographer in the shot. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net for quick answers \| The best in the business: DV Info Net Sponsors \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

September 10th, 2009, 07:42 AM	#43
William Smyth Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Newport, RI Posts: 104	I have had almost entirely positive experiences with the photographers I shoot with. If you think about it, it's beneficial for everyone involved for the videographer and photographer to get along. The couple gets a better project and if you leave the other vender with a positive vibe at the end of the day, it's more likely you may end up with a referral. An anecdote: Before I was shooting weddings on my own, I was shooting for another company. One one particular wedding, it was raining. Rather than go to a park and shoot outdoors as planned, the photographer decided to bring the bridal party back to his studio for the formals. Once there, he told me, I was forbidden from shooting in his building. Now, this particular bride was the cousin of the owner of the video company. The video was his gift to her. So, I without getting worked up, I mentioned the the bride that I wasn't allowed to shoot at the studio and that I was going to head to the reception site. She told the photographer that she really wanted the formals on video. He relented. I could tell, he was pissed at me for the remainder of the day, but in the end I got the shots I needed. __________________ www.vacilando.tv

September 9th, 2009, 01:25 PM	#33
Jim Snow Major Player Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Santa Clara, CA Posts: 356	I suspect it has a lot to do with the way you handle the call. If you sound like Gomer Snurdly and project a perception that you are weak and subordinate, then you established the tone of your relationship. If you project a cordial but professional and in-charge demeanor, you will be treated accordingly.

September 10th, 2009, 04:15 AM	#38
Tim Harjo Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Sacramento, California Posts: 183	Honestly, the more I read about this, the more I think that the ones bothered most by photogs in a shot are... us.

September 10th, 2009, 05:56 AM	#40
Andrew Smith Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 291	Hi Michael, Thanks for the feedback on that one. Very interesting indeed! (and I note that they were coming back to you for the repeat business, too) Andrew

September 10th, 2009, 07:00 AM	#42
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 2,971	I find most photographers are very considerate and they will often tell me that they will try and stay out of my shots when we first meet. I tell them that I expect them to be in some of my shots, because that is part of what is happening, as Vito says.

September 11th, 2009, 09:24 AM	#44
Jeff Kellam Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 544	As others have said, it's best to talk to the photog before the wedding. The only real time to do this is at the rehearsal. At the rehearsal you can usually see how things are going to work out (aisle width, etc.), assuming the photog is there. Also, at large & crowded weddings, I believe you just need more cameras and/or timeslipped footage to keep the shots clear. The processional and recessional are always difficult for multiple people to get a shot of, that's just part of the deal. I have never had a B&G complain when its' blocked footage, that's real life. The digital camera age has contributed to all this. When shooting film, the photogs didn't just continuously shoot the entire time, they actually planned their shots. Now days they just spray & pray, essentially making a stop action movie of the entire event. Does the photog really need 30 shots of the recessional just to get one keeper? __________________ Panasonic HMC150/Canon A1/JVC HD1/Sony Vegas 8.0c

September 12th, 2009, 10:52 PM	#45
Paul Mailath Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Central Coast - NSW, Australia Posts: 711	This is an interesting thread but I have a sneaky suspision that the photogs are beating us to the punch, I had a bride today say that she wanted to make sure we didn't get in the photogs way (I didn't press her too much) but I suspect that her allready booked photog had mentioned it. I also happened to see some stills for a wedding I did a couple of months back and it included about 8 shots that had me in the background. It didn't occur to me at the time but maybe the photog included them to prove a point (I thought we worked together pretty well). perhaps the opposite conversation to this one is going on right now in a photogs forum????? __________________ Cheers - Paul M. www.relive-the-day.com

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