Why do Photographers...?

Taky Cheung · October 6th, 2009, 02:49 PM

What I found out was, the main photographer is professional for product shooting. The second photographer was just his friend. The bride was being cheap to ask her friends to be the photographer. So that's what it is.

Dave Blackhurst · October 6th, 2009, 02:59 PM

I shot with a guy who was a professional product photog, and a friend of the bride - he actually hated doing weddings, but his work and our short relationship for that gig were top notch, so neither of those factors would excuse what you've described, at least in my book.

Shooting product is different than a live event, but still the operator should know their gear and use it accordingly... maybe if they'd never done a wedding before...

David McCann · November 2nd, 2009, 10:57 AM

This thread and the "can you find the photog" videos are great!! Exactly the support I was looking for after experiencing this for myself Saturday.

So I was shooting this wedding for a friend from work. The photog was hired from a company with no affiliation to the couple. When I get there I am setting up all my equipment when the photog asked me to "help" him with some test shots.... Never had this really happen before, but being a considerate team player, I obliged and stood in the isle for him while he took a couple of shots. Then we discussed how and where we would shoot from. He ONLY used A wide angle lens the whole night I find out, so he asked that I not be in the center isle during the processional, so I obliged AGAIN and shot from the front of the room. Now he knew my next position was the back of the middle isle on a tripod. He also knew the approx framing of my back up cam. Beforehand, he seemed to be very compliant with looking out for me....

WELL, I set up at the back of the isle, like I told him, and guess where he decides is his ONLY option to shoot???? You guessed it..... THE MIDDLE ISLE ABOUT 2 FEET FROM THE B&G!!!!!!! He varied from standing to kneeling(MOSTLY standing) A couple times I started to walk down the isle to let him know, but something would be happening to where I had to get back to my cam. FINALLY I make it down to him and he seems surprised that I was upset that he was in my shot the whole time(except when it was a extreme CU of the couples heads, a very nice shot when they are doing the rings!!!!!!!!!) So he stayed back with me for a few minutes and prob when he realized that his WIDE angle lens aint gonna cut it, he goes back up!!!!!!!!!! WTF!!!! Sorry but I was the maddest I have EVER been at a wedding!!!! I have had photogs get in my way, of course, but they were courteous and polite about it. IT HAPPENS!! But this guy was so blatant in his rudeness, I couldn't believe it!!!!

So afterward he is wondering why I am so mad??? Are you serious??? He tells me there was no where else to shoot from??? WHAT???? Then he starts to ask me how many weddings I do a year?? I told him it is none of his business and this is not a "whos better" contest. I made sure he knew I was furious and I walked away!!!

During the introductions the bridal party was lining up like a tunnel so the B&G can walk thru them all as the first in line would shoot off confetti. I wanted to back as far as poss to get the confetti shot off. So I was behind the head table and he was in front of it. I politely told him that I am back here on a tripod, so if he could keep an eye out for me, I would appreciate it.... So he says "why arent you shooting handhled???" So now he wants to tell me how to do my job?? I am getting even madder, my face is prob beat red at this point. Again I stay polite and tell him this is the way I am doing it so lets just please work together... AGAIN he questions my methods!!!!!! SO I ask him to shoot from behind the table right next to me. It is only 3 feet further back than his current position. He then tells me that he only uses a wide angle lens so that wont work for him?? THEN GO GET THE PROPER EQUIPMENT!!!!!!!! He then says "this is my client and I will get her the shots she is paying for" OF course that is ur job, IDIOT!!!!! SO i say" she is my client too!!!!!!!" HE then has the nerve to say, "NO UR A FRIEND OF THE BRIDE!!!!" Implying that he is better than me with all the weddings he shoots and Im just "uncle john" shooting for friends!!!! I almost jumped over the table and choked him out!!! WHO THE F'%*# ARE U????? Now no one was around us at the time so I slipped and said "NO tonight she is my F%$^ING client too!!!!!!!" Then he acts like a little girl all offended that I "cursed" at him? Sorry dude, didn't know people still use the word curse?? Or got so offended when they push someone to the point of FURY and only get "cursed" at!!!

Anyways, sorry for the novel, as you can see, I am still a little frustrated about the situation!! I am not edited the wedding, so I cannot try to hide the blatant disregard for me. I still have to explain to the bride what happened..... But I agree that we have to work together or both products that the B&G paid for are compromised. My only hope is that his "killer wide angle shots" are as good as he thinks they will be!!! Cus my ceremony footage is not up to my standards!!!!!!!

Philip Howells · November 2nd, 2009, 11:56 AM

David, I have so much sympathy for you.

Coincidentally we did an important wedding fair at a nearby Marriott hotel yesterday and I had three specific requests if we did photography as well as video. All three are for 2011 and so I've told them stay in touch because by then we'll be offering a portrait/formals add on service to our video. Things can't go on like this.

I know the photographer's forums have horror stories about video people but I guess we know they're around and that we generally try not to be like them.

If we can't kill off the photographer by appealing to the clients' better judgment then we'll have to do it by economics.

Ironically on Saturday I presented a first showing of a video to a couple - who asked if we could include as a major item in the 100 free stills we give them on CD taken from the HDV masters, pictures of the guests during the speeches - evidently their photographer hadn't bothered to take any reaction shots. Happily our 3rd camera is there specifically for that so again we come out smelling of roses.

SiuChung Leung · November 2nd, 2009, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David McCann

This thread and the "can you find the photog" videos are great!! Exactly the support I was looking for after experiencing this for myself .....

We had bad time with a photographer with wide angle as well.

Months ago we did a wedding with a photo studio, we worked with them couple times already and we always stay out of each others way. This time they bring a new guy to the wedding and he use a 17-35....all day. During the ceremony, he was about 2-3 step from the couple and took photo like papparazi. While the couple exchange their rings, he actually step up and stand between the bride and groom to take the shot. He basically blocked everyone, including their own photographer....

Craig Terott · November 3rd, 2009, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Ojjeh

Do what I have done in the past make a funny clips with all your blocked shots to show the B&G what you had to deal with and make it part of the DVD as a deleted scenes.
I posted these clips before.
can you find the photographer ?
Can you find the photographer? Part II

Michael,

This is so classic!!! I love it (but hate it at the same time, lol). Send the link to the photographer!!!!!!!!! I'm still laughing. It's awesome!

Andrew Smith · November 3rd, 2009, 09:00 AM

I've already burnt both clips to a DVD and posted it to a video mate / associate whose company does weddings. I figure it's worth the effort for the therapy value alone!

Andrew

Taky Cheung · November 3rd, 2009, 09:54 AM

OMG! That was so funny. I felt the pain as I have done weddings with photographers behaves that way too.

Denny Lajeunesse · November 4th, 2009, 02:49 AM

My Mother is a marriage commissioner in British Columbia. She has been officiating civil weddings for 16 years. She finds many (not all but a lot) photographers to be a royal pain in the ass. Disrespectful, sticking a flash in your face while reciting the vows, a few have actually stopped the ceremony so they could set up a shot (Which pissed the B&G off as well). One almost knocked her off a raised stage in the middle of a ceremony!

She now asks who they have doing the photography. If it's one of the ones on her mental list, she tells the B&G out right that she will not do there wedding if that person/company is doing the photography.

On the other hand I don't think she has ever had any problems with video people... so far.

SiuChung Leung · November 4th, 2009, 03:22 AM

Videographer is not that intrusive compare to photographer, we can take our camera and go willi~lly. But I think with the new 5D2 and 7D, Videographer CAN BE intrusive like photographer....

Jason McDonald · November 4th, 2009, 05:39 AM

As a wedding minister, I always see the videographer moving out of the way for the photographer. The same people are always working together at the chapels and they have a 'relationship of sorts. The weddings have a 'routine' to them so they both know where to stand or kneel to get their shots. However, when it comes down to it, for some reason the photographer decides when the videographer has to move. I'll ask why this weekend. Maybe there's something to it.

Andrew Smith · November 4th, 2009, 05:41 AM

Perhaps the photographer thinks the video guy only has to be there for a moment to get his shot? (photo thinking mentality)

Andrew

Denny Lajeunesse · November 4th, 2009, 04:55 PM

Small Lens Syndrome?

Dave Blackhurst · November 4th, 2009, 05:17 PM

Proper lens/zoom capability SHOULD mean no one really needs to move to "get the shot" most of the time. If a photog is shooting a low zoom kit lens, they shouldn't be doing it professionally... there's absolutely no reason to disrupt the sanctity of a service - you can always "stage" some stills later (same goes for video, though it's tough on continuity) if you "miss" a shot.

This is where I disagree with those who don't want to provide stills pulled from the video - sometimes being able to mix and match can provide better overall coverage for the client, and I don't see any reason to avoid that - seems like a solid "value add", not a "competition".

When the "multimedia" crew works together, I think that's when the magic really happens, and the client gets the best memorialization of their day...

SiuChung Leung · November 5th, 2009, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Ojjeh

I agree with you, I did a wedding few weeks ago and the photographers(2) were so rude to us from the minute we introduced ourself to them, then they were blocking us all day long, at one point when the best man was making his toast one of them stood right in the front of the camera which was on a tripod and when my wife asked her nicely to move one step to the right, she said NO!!!! this is my shot and she was there for about 15min. So what can you do during the wedding ? Sadly nothing....
Do what I have done in the past make a funny clips with all your blocked shots to show the B&G what you had to deal with and make it part of the DVD as a deleted scenes.
I posted these clips before.
can you find the photographer ?
Can you find the photographer? Part II

I just showed the clip to two photographers and their first reaction was "why don't the videographer move?".

That's explain a lot ....

October 6th, 2009, 02:49 PM	#61
Taky Cheung Sponsor: L.A. Color Shop Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 768	What I found out was, the main photographer is professional for product shooting. The second photographer was just his friend. The bride was being cheap to ask her friends to be the photographer. So that's what it is. __________________ Comer LED Camera Lights . Batteries . Chargers . Accessories LA Color Shop - DVInfo Sponsor

November 2nd, 2009, 11:56 AM	#64
Philip Howells Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 175	David, I have so much sympathy for you. Coincidentally we did an important wedding fair at a nearby Marriott hotel yesterday and I had three specific requests if we did photography as well as video. All three are for 2011 and so I've told them stay in touch because by then we'll be offering a portrait/formals add on service to our video. Things can't go on like this. I know the photographer's forums have horror stories about video people but I guess we know they're around and that we generally try not to be like them. If we can't kill off the photographer by appealing to the clients' better judgment then we'll have to do it by economics. Ironically on Saturday I presented a first showing of a video to a couple - who asked if we could include as a major item in the 100 free stills we give them on CD taken from the HDV masters, pictures of the guests during the speeches - evidently their photographer hadn't bothered to take any reaction shots. Happily our 3rd camera is there specifically for that so again we come out smelling of roses. __________________ Philip www.phpweddings.co.uk

November 3rd, 2009, 09:54 AM	#68
Taky Cheung Sponsor: L.A. Color Shop Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 768	OMG! That was so funny. I felt the pain as I have done weddings with photographers behaves that way too. __________________ Comer LED Camera Lights . Batteries . Chargers . Accessories LA Color Shop - DVInfo Sponsor

November 4th, 2009, 03:22 AM	#70
SiuChung Leung Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 206	Videographer is not that intrusive compare to photographer, we can take our camera and go willi~lly. But I think with the new 5D2 and 7D, Videographer CAN BE intrusive like photographer.... __________________ S.O.D.E Wedding Video(NZ): www.sode.co.nz

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October 6th, 2009, 02:59 PM	#62
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 2,009	I shot with a guy who was a professional product photog, and a friend of the bride - he actually hated doing weddings, but his work and our short relationship for that gig were top notch, so neither of those factors would excuse what you've described, at least in my book. Shooting product is different than a live event, but still the operator should know their gear and use it accordingly... maybe if they'd never done a wedding before...

November 2nd, 2009, 10:57 AM	#63
David McCann New Boot Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 16	This thread and the "can you find the photog" videos are great!! Exactly the support I was looking for after experiencing this for myself Saturday. So I was shooting this wedding for a friend from work. The photog was hired from a company with no affiliation to the couple. When I get there I am setting up all my equipment when the photog asked me to "help" him with some test shots.... Never had this really happen before, but being a considerate team player, I obliged and stood in the isle for him while he took a couple of shots. Then we discussed how and where we would shoot from. He ONLY used A wide angle lens the whole night I find out, so he asked that I not be in the center isle during the processional, so I obliged AGAIN and shot from the front of the room. Now he knew my next position was the back of the middle isle on a tripod. He also knew the approx framing of my back up cam. Beforehand, he seemed to be very compliant with looking out for me.... WELL, I set up at the back of the isle, like I told him, and guess where he decides is his ONLY option to shoot???? You guessed it..... THE MIDDLE ISLE ABOUT 2 FEET FROM THE B&G!!!!!!! He varied from standing to kneeling(MOSTLY standing) A couple times I started to walk down the isle to let him know, but something would be happening to where I had to get back to my cam. FINALLY I make it down to him and he seems surprised that I was upset that he was in my shot the whole time(except when it was a extreme CU of the couples heads, a very nice shot when they are doing the rings!!!!!!!!!) So he stayed back with me for a few minutes and prob when he realized that his WIDE angle lens aint gonna cut it, he goes back up!!!!!!!!!! WTF!!!! Sorry but I was the maddest I have EVER been at a wedding!!!! I have had photogs get in my way, of course, but they were courteous and polite about it. IT HAPPENS!! But this guy was so blatant in his rudeness, I couldn't believe it!!!! So afterward he is wondering why I am so mad??? Are you serious??? He tells me there was no where else to shoot from??? WHAT???? Then he starts to ask me how many weddings I do a year?? I told him it is none of his business and this is not a "whos better" contest. I made sure he knew I was furious and I walked away!!! During the introductions the bridal party was lining up like a tunnel so the B&G can walk thru them all as the first in line would shoot off confetti. I wanted to back as far as poss to get the confetti shot off. So I was behind the head table and he was in front of it. I politely told him that I am back here on a tripod, so if he could keep an eye out for me, I would appreciate it.... So he says "why arent you shooting handhled???" So now he wants to tell me how to do my job?? I am getting even madder, my face is prob beat red at this point. Again I stay polite and tell him this is the way I am doing it so lets just please work together... AGAIN he questions my methods!!!!!! SO I ask him to shoot from behind the table right next to me. It is only 3 feet further back than his current position. He then tells me that he only uses a wide angle lens so that wont work for him?? THEN GO GET THE PROPER EQUIPMENT!!!!!!!! He then says "this is my client and I will get her the shots she is paying for" OF course that is ur job, IDIOT!!!!! SO i say" she is my client too!!!!!!!" HE then has the nerve to say, "NO UR A FRIEND OF THE BRIDE!!!!" Implying that he is better than me with all the weddings he shoots and Im just "uncle john" shooting for friends!!!! I almost jumped over the table and choked him out!!! WHO THE F'%*# ARE U????? Now no one was around us at the time so I slipped and said "NO tonight she is my F%$^ING client too!!!!!!!" Then he acts like a little girl all offended that I "cursed" at him? Sorry dude, didn't know people still use the word curse?? Or got so offended when they push someone to the point of FURY and only get "cursed" at!!! Anyways, sorry for the novel, as you can see, I am still a little frustrated about the situation!! I am not edited the wedding, so I cannot try to hide the blatant disregard for me. I still have to explain to the bride what happened..... But I agree that we have to work together or both products that the B&G paid for are compromised. My only hope is that his "killer wide angle shots" are as good as he thinks they will be!!! Cus my ceremony footage is not up to my standards!!!!!!!

November 3rd, 2009, 09:00 AM	#67
Andrew Smith Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 292	I've already burnt both clips to a DVD and posted it to a video mate / associate whose company does weddings. I figure it's worth the effort for the therapy value alone! Andrew

November 4th, 2009, 02:49 AM	#69
Denny Lajeunesse Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Kelowna, BC [Canada, Eh!] Posts: 53	My Mother is a marriage commissioner in British Columbia. She has been officiating civil weddings for 16 years. She finds many (not all but a lot) photographers to be a royal pain in the ass. Disrespectful, sticking a flash in your face while reciting the vows, a few have actually stopped the ceremony so they could set up a shot (Which pissed the B&G off as well). One almost knocked her off a raised stage in the middle of a ceremony! She now asks who they have doing the photography. If it's one of the ones on her mental list, she tells the B&G out right that she will not do there wedding if that person/company is doing the photography. On the other hand I don't think she has ever had any problems with video people... so far.

November 4th, 2009, 05:39 AM	#71
Jason McDonald Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Japan Posts: 80	As a wedding minister, I always see the videographer moving out of the way for the photographer. The same people are always working together at the chapels and they have a 'relationship of sorts. The weddings have a 'routine' to them so they both know where to stand or kneel to get their shots. However, when it comes down to it, for some reason the photographer decides when the videographer has to move. I'll ask why this weekend. Maybe there's something to it.

November 4th, 2009, 05:41 AM	#72
Andrew Smith Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 292	Perhaps the photographer thinks the video guy only has to be there for a moment to get his shot? (photo thinking mentality) Andrew

November 4th, 2009, 04:55 PM	#73
Denny Lajeunesse Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Kelowna, BC [Canada, Eh!] Posts: 53	Small Lens Syndrome?

November 4th, 2009, 05:17 PM	#74
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 2,009	Proper lens/zoom capability SHOULD mean no one really needs to move to "get the shot" most of the time. If a photog is shooting a low zoom kit lens, they shouldn't be doing it professionally... there's absolutely no reason to disrupt the sanctity of a service - you can always "stage" some stills later (same goes for video, though it's tough on continuity) if you "miss" a shot. This is where I disagree with those who don't want to provide stills pulled from the video - sometimes being able to mix and match can provide better overall coverage for the client, and I don't see any reason to avoid that - seems like a solid "value add", not a "competition". When the "multimedia" crew works together, I think that's when the magic really happens, and the client gets the best memorialization of their day...