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Old September 8th, 2009, 03:39 PM   #1
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High School football games

Hi.
I've been asked to tape all of a high school senior's football games. Since I haven't done this before I was hoping someone could shed some light on what I need.
I have a Canon XH-A1 and a Sony VX-2100. Both I love for their low light capabilities so it's just a matter of whether I want to shoot in HD or SD.

as for the tripod, I have a standard Amvona tripod leg set with a Manfrotto 7xx head. My concern is that if I am shooting in the stands is this good enough, or should I find another vantage point?

I was looking at the Libec-LS38 - will this tripod make a difference?

Thanks
Jim
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Old September 8th, 2009, 06:33 PM   #2
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i've done HS football (and some pro ball but that's another story). For the HS stuff I shot from the top of the announcers booth-on a tripod of course, and ffocused in on the play(er(s))

Now granted, I was shooting the game not a specific player but staying on 1 player is a lot easier from the higher position cause you can see everything and it takes a really big guy and a 'small play' (going up the middle) to block you out.

When i was doing the HS stuff I used either a DSR250 or a JVC5000U with a 17 lens which really got things pretty close. I would have liked to use a 20 or 21 lens but didn't have it so I made do with the 17. I also was able to do it with the 12X on the DSR250, same as the VX2100, so you could do it with either camera.
Like I said, I prefer being high unless I have a 2nd shooter then I'll go to the sideline while the 2nd shoots from on high.

When I did the pro stuff, I was relegated to the end zone. Great from 20 or 25 yards in but it sucked as the action went the other way.
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Old September 8th, 2009, 08:21 PM   #3
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My main experience of this is as a viewer - here the Saturday evening soccer programme covers most if not all the main games in the major leagues. The less important teams appear to be covered by one camera from the sort of perch Don has described and only the main goal action is shown.

It's a situation I found myself in 15 or 20 years ago recording soccer games between teams from different departments for the client company's annual sales conference.

The problem I and the cameraman of today like Jim share is showing enough of the action so that the viewer can see the overall strategy of the play whilst giving enough attention to the player who appears to be about to score. The solution the broadcast people here use is to hold a fairly wide angle and only zoom in a little as a goal is scored.

Of course the action of American football is less continuous than in soccer but I imagine the same solution would apply.

Ultra-long zoom lenses like the broadcast, multicam rigs use are wasted in the single camera situation - in fact they're probably a temptation to do too much zooming.

Finally get the best pair of legs and a true fluid head you can afford. You may change your cameras several times but your legs will go on for ever - unless they're carbon fibre and you get to work in the Arctic - I heard from a video man there who told me that CF is useless in extreme cold and he uses old-fashioned wooden legs all the time.
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Old September 8th, 2009, 08:38 PM   #4
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Actually in American Football they have at least 1 cam on a wide shot and 1 (or more) on the featured player(s) (every team has 1 or 2) and the director cuts as needed.

From the ground you won't be able to get the featured player IMO because he might be hidden by others, you could be on the wrong side of the play or you might not be able to get in front of the bench area and that's 20 yards or more.

Just my opinion but I'd shot from high and zoom down to the featured player but make sure you show enough of the action around him so people know whats going on.
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Old September 8th, 2009, 10:13 PM   #5
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high school player profiles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bucciferro View Post
Hi.
I've been asked to tape all of a high school senior's football games. Since I haven't done this before I was hoping someone could shed some light on what I need.
I have a Canon XH-A1 and a Sony VX-2100. Both I love for their low light capabilities so it's just a matter of whether I want to shoot in HD or SD.

as for the tripod, I have a standard Amvona tripod leg set with a Manfrotto 7xx head. My concern is that if I am shooting in the stands is this good enough, or should I find another vantage point?

I was looking at the Libec-LS38 - will this tripod make a difference?

Thanks
Jim
Jm,
Hi Im doing the same also. I would suggest staying on top of the action. This enables you to kind of set the play up and as the play continues slowly zoom in onto the action. Well this is espically true if you are spotlighting one player.
Can I ask if you are doing sde or collecting the footage and then giving it to the player so they can pick the plays they want. Are you using any efx software like shake, etc to spotlight them?This is my first time also. what type of price packages did you develop or or you doing an hourly rate per game.
Hope to talk to you more to see how things are going.

indiemedia225@yahoo.com

cthomas

Last edited by Chaille Thomas; September 8th, 2009 at 11:20 PM.
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Old September 9th, 2009, 08:18 AM   #6
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Thanks for all the input - it really helps. I figured the best spot is as high as possible since I do need to spotlight one player. Even watching pro games on TV they are up high to catch everything so I will try to do the same. I hope I can get up on top of the announcer's booth - that should be a challenge.

Should I get the Libec LS38 or stick with the photo legs?

Chaille,
This became a service of mine yesterday afternoon so we agreed on a price of $125 per game. I give them the raw video on a DVD so they can review it. Once the games are completed he will decide if he wants me to edit the clips to create a college entrance video. I will probably charge $50 per hour to do that or just complete the whole project at $1500 - the client seems amenable to the work that I need to do so price is less of a problem.

Jim

Last edited by Jim Bucciferro; September 9th, 2009 at 08:46 AM. Reason: wrong part number for Libec tripod
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Old September 9th, 2009, 10:19 AM   #7
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I do a lot of this kind of work. You can see what I do at
PA Sports Highlights

Let me share a few things I have learned over the years.

First, you might have trouble getting into the press box to shoot the game. Depending on the school, many times the press box is limited to the team videographers. Get to the game early and go to the top of the stands and as close to the 50 as possible.

Second, if you're producing a video for college recruiting, focus on the game, not the player. College coaches generally want to see context. What happened in the play, how did the player react, etc.

Third, again if this is for colleges, try to limit the video to 20 plays and a copy of his best game. Some coaches don't care to look at highlights at all, so I always suggest putting the best game on after the highlights. Also, start with his best plays. A coach may only watch a few plays and if they aren't impressed they'll move on.

Best of luck.
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Old September 9th, 2009, 01:05 PM   #8
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Thanks Tracy,
Good pointers - I'll keep them in mind.
Yes, it makes sense to see how the player reacted in the context of what happened during the play. So, I'll focus on that. I have a lot of time to get this down so the first game we'll see what he likes and doesn't like and move on from there.

Jim
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Old September 9th, 2009, 07:59 PM   #9
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Ok lots of good stuff here most of which I echo.

To the question about the Libec LS-38. I use it for sports with my XL-H1A and it is a dream. The note is I have it loaded with a Firestore, Wireless Mics and a big battery so it all balances nicely. I beleive the A1 (which I shot with as well before upgrading to the XL) is too light for the 38 and will have issues being balanced. The LS-38 is not adjustable so you either need lots of accesories or find a way to add weight. My friend shoots with the LS-22 from Libec witht he A1 and it balances very nicely for him so that might be your best choice from libec.

As others have said up top Shoot down. Shoot from Mid field (50 Yard)

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I have to please a few audiences. I have to please the coach who wants to see the play so the video can be used to enhance the team. This usually means staying wide so we can see what is going on. He gets most of what he wants.

I have to please the live viewers who are watching these games over the web. The stream is 480*270 so if I don't use the zoom they don't really get much detail.

In most cases I film looking at the LCD and with my other eye watching the action directly. This allows me to try and watch people moving around the ball and zoom out or in to catch important parts. Its a rush to keep up.
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Old September 11th, 2009, 12:44 PM   #10
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Tripod

Josh,
I have a Manfrotto 701RC head which works great with the Sony and the Canon. I guess I just need new legs because they are a pain to setup. Any recommendations for a good set of sticks? I'll also take a look at the LS22.

Jim
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Old September 11th, 2009, 01:43 PM   #11
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I cant offer much on legs. I got the LS38 with the set that they came with and like them a lot. Quick setup and they are sturdy with the mid spreader. The LS-22 with the legs it came with are similar, just smaller and work nicely as well. Zotz (a sponsor of this forum) provided both the LS38 and the LS22 that I use or have used.
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Old September 30th, 2009, 11:39 AM   #12
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High School football filming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy Painter View Post
.....Second, if you're producing a video for college recruiting, focus on the game, not the player. College coaches generally want to see context. What happened in the play, how did the player react, etc.

Third, again if this is for colleges, try to limit the video to 20 plays and a copy of his best game. Some coaches don't care to look at highlights at all, so I always suggest putting the best game on after the highlights. Also, start with his best plays. A coach may only watch a few plays and if they aren't impressed they'll move on.

Best of luck.

For anyone that comes across this later, I'll echo what Tracy says here. Jim, I don't know if you're following this one kid for a college recruit video or just a family wanting tight shots of his play.

I've been filming high school football games for a couple of years now and have put together recruit videos that have gone to NCAA D1 programs all over the country. Using one tripod with a dual camera mounting plate ($50 from B&H), I have one camera set to a "wide view" to get the whole "picture" and another camera that I "ride" for a tighter action, line-of-scrimmage view.

I learned quickly to not get really caught up in picture quality as college coaches and recruiters have zero interest in HD or SD footage. For the recruit videos, I use a "spot shadow" on each play to show where the highlight player is before the snap. College coaches also like the entire game footage to see how a player reacts to getting beat and what he does when the play doesn't come his way.


Shoot from as high as possible, usually the press box or the last row of the bleachers. Even if you're not the official videographer for either team, you'll probably be allowed access to the press box or the roof of the press box (if there is room) if you let them know what you're doing. Actually, I've never been asked who I was or what I was doing. I guess they just assume I'm the "video guy" when I set my gear up.

Tip: Carry rain gear at all times. If you're on the roof, you'll need it. Gaff tape, trash bags, plastic grocery bags, umbrella, rain suit, towels, and zip ties to secure the umbrella to the tripod.
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Old October 12th, 2016, 08:42 PM   #13
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Re: High School football games

Wow, more than seven years since this thread was last opened, and the forum says I've not been here since 14th February 2012...

As it happens I've never seen this thread, but wish I had, I've been recording Rugby Union for about nine years, and have never charged a penny.

As it is I'm using about 3,500 worth of camera and computing equipment owned by a National Charity at this stage, and have secured an Annual Ring Fenced Media Budget for equipment.

The charity is England Deaf Rugby Union, registered with the Charity Commission here in the UK, I have been recording England games for the last seven years, which has seen the charity go from independently funded, but with a small grant from the Rugby Football Union (RFU), Community Rugby, to a fully Internationally recognised RFU Representative Squad, with an annual 10k worth of free RFU Canterbury Rugby Kit, plus annual 22k Budget from the RFU / Barbarians Grant. The EDRU Charity is responsible for managing the RFU Deaf Representative Men's Squad, renamed England Deaf.

We also have an England Deaf Women's Development Squad, as yet not recognised by the RFU, but on them playing their first significant game they will be recognised as the Women's Team, and will attract similar funding for kt and a similar operating budget.

I'm their Video Support, an amateur, but not amateurish I would hope.

I'm responsible for filming the games, which I place on Vimeo after editing out everything that isn't actual play, as a set of highlights, and because I use two cameras, one fixed wide angle, and the other with LANC Control, I can edit plays, produce slow motion, show the decisions of key players, and provide this to the Coaching Staff, and then release to Players for self analysis, before putting the highlights on general release, both on Vimeo and YouTube.

I'm also responsible for providing footage, including slow motion, including zooming in on incidents caught by the fixed camera, for the Citing Committee, for use in any possible disciplinary action.

I'm also involved in promotional videos, including YouTube Reports, Player Profiles/Interviews, Charity Events, promotion events to include Deaf Children in playing Rugby, including the setting up of Deaf Rugby Cebtres of Excellence, the next being in Doncaster, and recording of the EDRU BSL Interpreters in front of a green screen, and the addition of closed caption subtitles. Indeed, I will soon be filming a Professional BSL Interpreter who normally works for the BBC, for including on the website of England Deaf Rugby.

Interestingly, the RFU requires that the EDRU provides promotional video of Deaf Rugby, and games as a part of its funding requirement.

All very exciting stuff now we have the Cameras and a Computer, which we haven't had since mine when kaput in February. I actually have two England Games I have recorded and need to edit and put out there.

However, on Sunday we go to Moseley Rugby in Birmingham, where England Deaf will play its annual fixture against England Police, a training game for both sides. So I'll be recording that from the main media gantry in the new 3 million stand they built in the last year or so. I've filmed four games from that stand already, so I know where everything is.

The next development the Charity is trying to push is live streaming using hardware, so we have to purchase this kit next, we've already tried live streaming of games before, but using free services, and the wifi was patchy and so was the mobile coverage, so we're looking at equipment to plug directly into ethernet. I'm CCNA, or used to be, so this won't be an issue.

I do all this for nothing, I've even refused a 45p mileage allowance and submitted a diesel fuel receipt instead, since we did over 500 miles and I only used 38 in fuel, but perhaps I should explain why?

My wife is profoundly deaf and wears bi-lateral cochlear implants, so is my youngest son, who wears bi-lateral behind the ear (BTE) hearing aids; she is Kit and Catering Manager for England Deaf, and we have about 25k worth of rugby kit stored at home, with another 10k coming in October, and my 25 year old son plays for the team at No.11 on the wing, he's got 10 Caps for England, having managed to play at level 3 in the English Leagues.

Lets just say its been quite difficult not to shout and get excited while filming, when he's actually scoring an International Try, but I manage not to, so must be acting professionally, ha.
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