Lot's o' stuff at DVinfo.net

Adam Rench · May 8th, 2005, 10:41 PM

Hey y'all.. totally new to weddings.. So here goes....

OK, I own the FX1 and I'm editing currently using PPro 1.5.1, but that's not what I will be editing on in the future. I'm awaiting the HDV update for Avid Xpress Pro. However, I'm an aspiring indie filmmaker and I'm going to be purchasing the HD100 and will still be using the Avid and seliling the FX1 to fund that expense.

I want to do weddings for extra $$!! Now, I've seen some nice stuff here in this forum. I will surely be modeling my work after a few of these very nice works I've seen here. I'm wondering though, are there any books, guides or anything like that that I may read/pick up to learn the "proper" way to film a wedding? My parents do weddings, but they are still photographers.. very different.

Also a few questions.. (sorry for the rambling tonight)
1. Will the HD100 be too big for weddings? As in.. will the people get intimidated by it (otherwise, I own a Optura 20.. this is too small I'm assuming right?)?
2. I see what seems to be a big question on this section of the forum. HD vs SD. I'm sure with the HD100 I can offer either right.. and just charge an extra fee for HD.
3. I can burn and duplicate DVDs by myself (within reason), but do a lot of people still use VHS? (I mean, I gave away my VCR a month ago - sort of like the floppy disk drive eh? hehe)
4. Can one person do it alone?
5. Is pre-recorded music a problem with wedding videos.

Thanks to anyone who responds to me. :)

Chris Hurd · May 9th, 2005, 02:04 AM

Hi Adam,

Apologies in advance for my short answers, but it's past my bedtime here.

1. Will the HD100 be too big for weddings? -- Not in my opinion. I used to shoot weddings with an XL1 which isn't much smaller than an HD100.

2.HD vs SD. I can offer either right.. and just charge an extra fee for HD. -- How are your clients going to view the HD? If you're delivering a DVD, then that's Standard Definition. Why should they pay extra for that?

3. Do a lot of people still use VHS? -- I've been out of the game too long to know, but why not through in a VHS copy if their great-aunt in Idaho needs one? I used to bill by the job and deliver as many copies as they wanted. Do one job and you can pay for a decent S-VHS VCR for making VHS copies.

4. Can one person do it alone? -- it's always best to have a helper or two, but yes I've done it alone more than once or twice.

5. Is pre-recorded music a problem with wedding videos. -- See http://www.dvinfo.net/articles/busin...htfaq2.php#q10

Hope this helps,

Adam Rench · May 9th, 2005, 06:43 AM

Thank you very much for the answers Chris. I thought that there might be some rules about the music that didn't apply to weddings, but that's a bummer. I have Sonicfire Pro though and can put my videos to that.

How do you get accurate lighting for a wedding or do you have to adjust the camera's settings to account for lighting?

Don Bloom · May 9th, 2005, 07:40 AM

Ceremonies are ceremonies. No additional lighting-adjust the camera as needed.

For receptions a small on camera light is the way to go. I have found 99.9% of the reception venues in Chciagoland keep the lights very low and although you would probably get an image using a small (10-30W light makes all the difference in the world. Make sure you have enough battey power for the light to get thru the night.
Don B

Adam Rench · May 9th, 2005, 07:47 AM

oh yeah! I completely forgot about on camera lighting. I was so into film lighting that I never even though about that.

Thanks. !!

Glen Elliott · May 9th, 2005, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Rench

I'm wondering though, are there any books, guides or anything like that that I may read/pick up to learn the "proper" way to film a wedding? My parents do weddings, but they are still photographers.. very different.

Great question, thus the reason I'm working on setting up a locked thread on this forum that can serve as a central resource for information on the various training materials that are available, in particular, to wedding videographers.

It's too lengthy to list them here but feel free to contact me via email I'll fill you in on the resources I've gathered so far.

Heres some input on the questions you posted:

1. Will the HD100 be too big for weddings?
To be honest I really don't feel anything is too "big" for weddings. Both larger cameras and smaller cameras have their own set of advantages and disadvantages. So no the HD100 is not too large by any means.

2. I see what seems to be a big question on this section of the forum. HD vs SD. I'm sure with the HD100 I can offer either right.. and just charge an extra fee for HD.
That's completly up to you. It'll still be a while before HD is deliverable but I'd assume you could charge a prime for new technology.

3. I can burn and duplicate DVDs by myself (within reason), but do a lot of people still use VHS? (I mean, I gave away my VCR a month ago - sort of like the floppy disk drive eh? hehe)
I can't speak for everyone but we don't even offer VHS anymore. It's DVD only. Now if there is a special request because "grandma doesn't have a DVD player" then I can record one out- but I don't normally offer VHS.

4. Can one person do it alone?
Yes but can be very difficult. There are so many benefits to having an assistant- they far outweight the benefit (financial) of being solo, IMO. It's not something I'd recommend if your new to weddings.

5. Is pre-recorded music a problem with wedding videos.
See Chris's link.

Patrick Moreau · May 9th, 2005, 12:13 PM

Glen,

I, as well as many other here, view most of the work you post. In your work, do you not use others music? What I am wondering is, do you get permission to use this work in your videos?

From your last post above regarding using prerecorded music, you referred Adam to the article that Chris posted. I only read over the one volume that the link takes you to, but it very clearly says that we cannot use others music in this type of work without permission. That is why I am asking bout your work. Sorry to ask you directly, but being the forum moderator as well as producing excellent work, I think many members here listen to your advice.

Maybe I am way off base here, but I believe that the majority of wedding videographers, if not at least a fair percentage, use others music without permission. I am not taking a stance on whether that is right or wrong, but despite it being illegal, I believe it is common practice in my best estimate, wouldn't you agree?

Chris Hurd · May 9th, 2005, 12:20 PM

Hi Patrick,

That's kind of a hot topic which really belongs in our Taking Care of Business forum. Look in there and you'll see that it's frequently and heavily discussed and debated. We really shouldn't continue it here because we'd be highjacking Adam's thread. I mean, I know it's one of his questions, but let's please pick up the copyright topic in our Taking Care of Business board. Thanks in advance,

Patrick Moreau · May 9th, 2005, 12:27 PM

Understood Chris. I will reword my post so it more directly relates to the original questions.

5. Is pre-recorded music a problem with wedding videos?

Although the link clearly states that it is illegal without permission for this kind of work, I do believe that many wedding videographers routinely use others music without permission. Glen, as somebody with more experience and as a forum moderator, would you agree?

Chris, in my opinion the link does not completely answer the original question. It provides the theoretical side of the issue, but I think he deserves a practical answer as well.

Chris Hurd · May 9th, 2005, 12:55 PM

Well, one very practical answer is that it's a violation of copyright law. Another very practical answer is that some wedding videographers do it all the time so far without suffering ill effects. After all, who would pursue damages over a wedding video? Just because it isn't a common type of litigation yet, doesn't mean that it won't happen. Long story short, "fair use" is not a right, it's a defense in a lawsuit.

If copyrighted music is playing within the scene as on-location ambience at, say, the reception or during the ceremony, then you're just recording what's already there. That may incur some degree of liability risk, but not as much as if you added copyrighted music later without a sync license. That's a far greater degree of risk. How much risk exactly and is it worth it? That's up to each individual to suss out, I guess.

Tommy James · May 9th, 2005, 01:04 PM

1. Actually the HD100 is a lot smaller than it looks even though its a shoulder mounted camera. Do you think that a shoulder mounted camera looks more professional ? With the JVC HD100 you look like the guy from the tv station.
2. What you can always do is shoot in HD deliver in SD and when your customer buys his HDTV you can then charge him extra for an HD version of the wedding.
3. Actually JVC makes a D-VHS deck that is capable of recording and playing back JVC high definition movies. This would be a perfect format for the delivery of JVC high definition wedding videos for customers that like the VHS format. Some of these D-VHS decks include ATSC high definition digital tuners that will convert a HD ready monitor to a full blown HDTV capable of recieving free off air HD television broadcasts. It's sad but true that a lot of people pay thousands of dollars for these HD ready televisions and then end up watching crummy analog programing because they didnt get the ATSC digital set top box. Also a D-VHS deck upconverts 480i VHS videos to enhanced definition 480p.
4. Windows Media High Definition Video is a good format to distribute high definition DVDs. Most upgraded Windows XP computers and some DVD players support the playback of this format.

Adam Rench · May 9th, 2005, 03:54 PM

Thanks for the excellent responses everyone. Sorry about bringing up that music issue, hehe. Well, sounds to me that I'll be just fine uisng the HD100.

I'll also be looking to get an assistant too. Maybe a high school. or college film student or something.

As far as HD goes, even though I'd be down-rezing to SD, the rez will still be much better coming from HD than from plain old SD. I think I might be able to use that to my advantage (pricing wise).

Also, thank goodness you don't offer VHS anymore!

How about duplicate DVDs? Is there some sort of protection that you put on your DVDs so that people can't copy them?

May 8th, 2005, 10:41 PM	#1
Adam Rench Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas, USA Posts: 386	Lot's o' stuff Hey y'all.. totally new to weddings.. So here goes.... OK, I own the FX1 and I'm editing currently using PPro 1.5.1, but that's not what I will be editing on in the future. I'm awaiting the HDV update for Avid Xpress Pro. However, I'm an aspiring indie filmmaker and I'm going to be purchasing the HD100 and will still be using the Avid and seliling the FX1 to fund that expense. I want to do weddings for extra $$!! Now, I've seen some nice stuff here in this forum. I will surely be modeling my work after a few of these very nice works I've seen here. I'm wondering though, are there any books, guides or anything like that that I may read/pick up to learn the "proper" way to film a wedding? My parents do weddings, but they are still photographers.. very different. Also a few questions.. (sorry for the rambling tonight) 1. Will the HD100 be too big for weddings? As in.. will the people get intimidated by it (otherwise, I own a Optura 20.. this is too small I'm assuming right?)? 2. I see what seems to be a big question on this section of the forum. HD vs SD. I'm sure with the HD100 I can offer either right.. and just charge an extra fee for HD. 3. I can burn and duplicate DVDs by myself (within reason), but do a lot of people still use VHS? (I mean, I gave away my VCR a month ago - sort of like the floppy disk drive eh? hehe) 4. Can one person do it alone? 5. Is pre-recorded music a problem with wedding videos. Thanks to anyone who responds to me. :) Last edited by Adam Rench; May 8th, 2005 at 11:02 PM.

May 9th, 2005, 02:04 AM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Hi Adam, Apologies in advance for my short answers, but it's past my bedtime here. 1. Will the HD100 be too big for weddings? -- Not in my opinion. I used to shoot weddings with an XL1 which isn't much smaller than an HD100. 2.HD vs SD. I can offer either right.. and just charge an extra fee for HD. -- How are your clients going to view the HD? If you're delivering a DVD, then that's Standard Definition. Why should they pay extra for that? 3. Do a lot of people still use VHS? -- I've been out of the game too long to know, but why not through in a VHS copy if their great-aunt in Idaho needs one? I used to bill by the job and deliver as many copies as they wanted. Do one job and you can pay for a decent S-VHS VCR for making VHS copies. 4. Can one person do it alone? -- it's always best to have a helper or two, but yes I've done it alone more than once or twice. 5. Is pre-recorded music a problem with wedding videos. -- See http://www.dvinfo.net/articles/busin...htfaq2.php#q10 Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

May 9th, 2005, 12:20 PM	#8
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Hi Patrick, That's kind of a hot topic which really belongs in our Taking Care of Business forum. Look in there and you'll see that it's frequently and heavily discussed and debated. We really shouldn't continue it here because we'd be highjacking Adam's thread. I mean, I know it's one of his questions, but let's please pick up the copyright topic in our Taking Care of Business board. Thanks in advance, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

May 9th, 2005, 12:55 PM	#10
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Well, one very practical answer is that it's a violation of copyright law. Another very practical answer is that some wedding videographers do it all the time so far without suffering ill effects. After all, who would pursue damages over a wedding video? Just because it isn't a common type of litigation yet, doesn't mean that it won't happen. Long story short, "fair use" is not a right, it's a defense in a lawsuit. If copyrighted music is playing within the scene as on-location ambience at, say, the reception or during the ceremony, then you're just recording what's already there. That may incur some degree of liability risk, but not as much as if you added copyrighted music later without a sync license. That's a far greater degree of risk. How much risk exactly and is it worth it? That's up to each individual to suss out, I guess. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

May 9th, 2005, 06:43 AM	#3
Adam Rench Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas, USA Posts: 386	Thank you very much for the answers Chris. I thought that there might be some rules about the music that didn't apply to weddings, but that's a bummer. I have Sonicfire Pro though and can put my videos to that. How do you get accurate lighting for a wedding or do you have to adjust the camera's settings to account for lighting?

May 9th, 2005, 07:40 AM	#4
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Ceremonies are ceremonies. No additional lighting-adjust the camera as needed. For receptions a small on camera light is the way to go. I have found 99.9% of the reception venues in Chciagoland keep the lights very low and although you would probably get an image using a small (10-30W light makes all the difference in the world. Make sure you have enough battey power for the light to get thru the night. Don B

May 9th, 2005, 07:47 AM	#5
Adam Rench Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas, USA Posts: 386	oh yeah! I completely forgot about on camera lighting. I was so into film lighting that I never even though about that. Thanks. !!

May 9th, 2005, 12:13 PM	#7
Patrick Moreau Still Motion Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,186	Glen, I, as well as many other here, view most of the work you post. In your work, do you not use others music? What I am wondering is, do you get permission to use this work in your videos? From your last post above regarding using prerecorded music, you referred Adam to the article that Chris posted. I only read over the one volume that the link takes you to, but it very clearly says that we cannot use others music in this type of work without permission. That is why I am asking bout your work. Sorry to ask you directly, but being the forum moderator as well as producing excellent work, I think many members here listen to your advice. Maybe I am way off base here, but I believe that the majority of wedding videographers, if not at least a fair percentage, use others music without permission. I am not taking a stance on whether that is right or wrong, but despite it being illegal, I believe it is common practice in my best estimate, wouldn't you agree?

May 9th, 2005, 12:27 PM	#9
Patrick Moreau Still Motion Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,186	Understood Chris. I will reword my post so it more directly relates to the original questions. 5. Is pre-recorded music a problem with wedding videos? Although the link clearly states that it is illegal without permission for this kind of work, I do believe that many wedding videographers routinely use others music without permission. Glen, as somebody with more experience and as a forum moderator, would you agree? Chris, in my opinion the link does not completely answer the original question. It provides the theoretical side of the issue, but I think he deserves a practical answer as well.

May 9th, 2005, 01:04 PM	#11
Tommy James suspended -- contact admin Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 214	1. Actually the HD100 is a lot smaller than it looks even though its a shoulder mounted camera. Do you think that a shoulder mounted camera looks more professional ? With the JVC HD100 you look like the guy from the tv station. 2. What you can always do is shoot in HD deliver in SD and when your customer buys his HDTV you can then charge him extra for an HD version of the wedding. 3. Actually JVC makes a D-VHS deck that is capable of recording and playing back JVC high definition movies. This would be a perfect format for the delivery of JVC high definition wedding videos for customers that like the VHS format. Some of these D-VHS decks include ATSC high definition digital tuners that will convert a HD ready monitor to a full blown HDTV capable of recieving free off air HD television broadcasts. It's sad but true that a lot of people pay thousands of dollars for these HD ready televisions and then end up watching crummy analog programing because they didnt get the ATSC digital set top box. Also a D-VHS deck upconverts 480i VHS videos to enhanced definition 480p. 4. Windows Media High Definition Video is a good format to distribute high definition DVDs. Most upgraded Windows XP computers and some DVD players support the playback of this format.

May 9th, 2005, 03:54 PM	#12
Adam Rench Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas, USA Posts: 386	Thanks for the excellent responses everyone. Sorry about bringing up that music issue, hehe. Well, sounds to me that I'll be just fine uisng the HD100. I'll also be looking to get an assistant too. Maybe a high school. or college film student or something. As far as HD goes, even though I'd be down-rezing to SD, the rez will still be much better coming from HD than from plain old SD. I think I might be able to use that to my advantage (pricing wise). Also, thank goodness you don't offer VHS anymore! How about duplicate DVDs? Is there some sort of protection that you put on your DVDs so that people can't copy them?