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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old June 3rd, 2005, 02:11 PM   #1
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What are your music choices?

I love doing highlight videos to music. I'm having trouble finding the right songs though for different situations. For instance, I'm currently working on a pre-ceremony montage of everyone getting ready and can't find a song I like. What songs are others using that work great for video montages?
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Old June 3rd, 2005, 04:11 PM   #2
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Depends on the customer, but have lately used...

Pictures of You - The Cure
Now we are free (from Gladiator) - Hans Zimmer (for the more romantic Bride's Prep.)
Yellow - Coldplay
You & I - Will Young
Wonderful World - Sam Cooke
Baby Come to Me - Regina Belle
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Old June 17th, 2005, 09:06 AM   #3
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I have a question on this topic:

If you are in the professional wedding business, how do you get authorization to sell a video with copyrighted music on it? Do you license the music? Do you buy the CD and give it to the couple so it fits in with their fair use rights? etc.

-Steve
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Old June 17th, 2005, 09:53 AM   #4
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with the type of stuff stephen is talking about, you just don't worry about it. for all of the artists he listed, licensing a song would cost several times more than anyone gets paid for wedding videos. licensing is a very substantial chunk of the budgets on features, and the big labels and artists don't have any special diescounts for event videographers.

and it doesn't constitute "fair use." you're selling something, using someone else's recording and intellectual property. (those are the 2 sets of rights you pay for when you license music for a movie- the label gets paid for use of the actual recording, and the artist/publisher gets paid for the intellectual property of the song.)

basically, you don't worry about it. you just assume that very few people will ever see the thing, and hope that your bride and groom aren't entertainment lawyers.
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Old June 17th, 2005, 09:57 AM   #5
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You also don't post this advice on a forum that's visited by entertainment lawyers.

What has been suggested here is an illegal activity. The fact that the chance of you getting caught and prosecuted might be low... but it's not non-existent.

In an age where the music industry is suing grandmothers and kids for downloading songs... it's definately in the realm of possibility.

How comfortable are you with the liability?
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Old June 17th, 2005, 10:46 AM   #6
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I was under the impression that if you own a CD, it is within your fair-use rights to put it on a video for your own private viewing. This was even part of the Apple iTunes advertising. It's just the same as it is within your rights to copy that file to your computer (MP3, whatever) and put it on your MP3 player.

That is to say, if a bride and groom owned the song on a CD, they would have fair-use rights to put it on one of thier home-videos. If they shot their own wedding, they would similarly have rights to edit the footage and use the song, provided they don't mass-replicate and distribute the video.

If anyone knows the formal rules, I'd be interested in reading them over. There must be provisions for single use licenses like this somewhere.

-Steve
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Old June 17th, 2005, 10:54 AM   #7
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Whoa hang on Richard before accusing anyone of illegal activity...

I DO worry about it! Here in the UK we DO have forms of licencing that cover the dubbing of less than 30 minutes of music onto a production; the 'Limited Distribution Licence' (ie Wedding video etc.). We have other forms of licensing too with many different types of licencing for all kinds of different types of productions. If you are creating a DVD for commercial release then it's a whole different ball game, but the licence I describe above can cover you for up to 500 copies. However you pay a licence per copy and also need one for the master copy even if it will sit on your shelf and never get watched.

Here's one of the main rules...

Video tapes/DVD's produced by virtue of this Licence shall not be sold (other than to family members and/or participants of the private function) or commercially exploited in any way, or broadcast or included in a cable programme.

Obviously certain artistes are not covered (Nivarna for example) due to opting out of the scheme, but music from most of the big record companies and their artistes is covered.

So to answer the last question... I'm very, very comfortable :)
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Old June 17th, 2005, 10:56 AM   #8
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I've heard that a music work-around is to basically designate in your contract that the client is paying only for your time and your costs (tapes, gear, etc) - they provide the music they want used in some form where they have paid for it. The finished product is designated 'free' (they are only paying for your time).

I don't know if that holds any water or not, but there's definitely a lot of 'eh, it's too hard or it's impossible to make things work ideally or legally, so let's not bother' I've noticed among wedding videographers.

Personally, I only use free or royalty-free music that I have lic. to use. My main reason (other than I can't find a non-illegal way to do so) for not fudging the rules is that I also retain copyright over all of my work (the edits) as it's very much interpretative and a 1-off artistic piece. Couldn't do that with illegally used music.
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Old June 17th, 2005, 10:58 AM   #9
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Re: Aussie and UK media laws..


Man o man, is it only the US that's getting screwed over (ie: the small guy) in terms of how we can use material for small/extremely limited distribution purposes?
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Old June 18th, 2005, 06:12 AM   #10
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Search for posts by Paul Tauger who IS an IP attorney. This topic has been discussed ad-naseum in hundreds if not thousands of posts here and every other video forum.

Short answer, in the US it is illeagle to use copyright music without securing authorization and making payment. Even if the B/G give you the CD to use it doesn't matter. The payment for the CD does not give you permission to duplicate the music. The Fair Use issue does not come into play in this istance. Again, Paul Tauger an attorney who deals in issues similar to these has be gracious enough to write many thousands of words regarding this very issue. Take some time to search out what he has to say about it. Find the posts, put on a BIG pot of coffee and enjoy reading.

Don
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Old June 18th, 2005, 08:30 AM   #11
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I didn't accuse anyone of illegal activity. I said "What has been suggested here is an illegal activity". And I stand by that.

This is an international forum. And laws are not universal in all countries.

Paul Tauger is indeed, the resident IP attorney who is kind enough to jump in with sage advice. As Don mentioned, a pot of coffee and the search button will get you hundreds of dollars worth of free legal advice.

I'll also add that my wife is an IP attorney. And I know for a FACT, that corporations read forums and message boards looking for test cases. They pick on small fry every now and then to get the rest of the people to keep their heads down. Doesn't 'seem fair' but that's the way it goes. (And no, that's not what she does for a living.)

So here in America then, a word to the wise should be sufficient.
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Old June 18th, 2005, 09:08 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven White
I was under the impression that if you own a CD, it is within your fair-use rights to put it on a video for your own private viewing. This was even part of the Apple iTunes advertising. It's just the same as it is within your rights to copy that file to your computer (MP3, whatever) and put it on your MP3 player.

That is to say, if a bride and groom owned the song on a CD, they would have fair-use rights to put it on one of thier home-videos. If they shot their own wedding, they would similarly have rights to edit the footage and use the song, provided they don't mass-replicate and distribute the video.

If anyone knows the formal rules, I'd be interested in reading them over. There must be provisions for single use licenses like this somewhere.

-Steve
If the B&G created the video themselves it might be determined that they had the fair-use right to use any music they wished. Even if one shot their wedding for them and turned th raw footage over to them for them to edit into the final product themselves, using whatever music they wished, the videographer would probably be ok. But that's not the usual situation with a videographer who has been hired to shoot their wedding. Here someone is providing a service and a product and getting paid for it. The resulting video is a retail product that is being sold by the videographer and if that's not "commerical use" I don't know what is. In a very real sense, it's no different than film being shot for theatrical release except it's intended for a very small, private audience. But the product itself is really not different from any other creative work being sold on the open market for a profit. The only way I could think of a videogrpaher MAYBE being legal is if the contract made it that the video was a "work for hire" and the videographer was an employee of the couple.
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Old June 21st, 2005, 12:20 PM   #13
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If you are in the professional wedding business, how do you get authorization to sell a video with copyrighted music on it? Do you license the music? Do you buy the CD and give it to the couple so it fits in with their fair use rights? etc

get in touch with your equivalent to AMCOS/ARIA (recording industry association)

here in aus there are yearly license which we buy for about 400 dollars which allows for up to 20 copies to be made, irresepctive of the duration in which the music will play.

This also covers mechanical licensing, being that your are cutting video to the tempo or certain cut of a song..
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Old July 1st, 2005, 11:18 PM   #14
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"Sunny Days" - Jars of Clay
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