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Old July 23rd, 2005, 02:29 PM   #1
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Is Lighting Necessary?

Hey guys. I知 putting together an equipment list for an unknown wedding job (Portfolio building). And I知 trying to get the most practical things I think I might need. I知 pretty straight on all the video and audio equipment but I知 hedging on the lighting.

I致e been looking at the Sony HVL-20DMA 10/20. It looks the whole kit would cost about $270 for light, battery, charger and extra lamp.

I see how I could connect it under a Beachtek DXA-8 to a Canon GL1 and mount a Rode Video Mic to the camera.

I致e heard most people shy away from a light and mic mounted on the same camera unless its necessary. I致e also heard reception rooms can get a little dark.

Anyway, I was curious as to whether you felt this light or a similar one is a luxury or a must have piece of equipment or a waste of money.

Thanks,
Scott
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Old July 23rd, 2005, 05:07 PM   #2
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Repeat after me, light is good, light is your friend, and light will keep you from pulling your hair our during the edit as you will not be saying "man I wish I had used a light." That being said, I've never had to mix a shoe mounted light and mic at the same time. You may want to avoid it, however using a light is VERY nessesary. That's just my opinion, I'll grant you with the right camrea i.e. PD170 which has good low light and manual settings, warning don't use too much gain if possible.
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Old July 23rd, 2005, 05:40 PM   #3
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Light is my friend

Thanks Devin,

"That being said, I've never had to mix a shoe mounted light and mic at the same time."

How would you do it then?

I was under the impression that the Sony Light had a bar that attached beneath the camera and of course the Rode Video Mic would be on the top shoe. I would guess they would be 8 - 12 inches apart. I understand this is not great, but what would be better?
Thanks,
Scott
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Old July 24th, 2005, 05:09 AM   #4
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wouldn't you like to test LED for your lighting system? an array of them are believed to be 100% flicker free. not really an expert on these, have also some questions with the luminiscence to be like a daylight.

let's wait for some other guys' informative thoughts about this
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Old July 24th, 2005, 08:26 AM   #5
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I've "RリDE" tested ( sorry for pun! ) for a review I'm doing and I realised that I couldn't get a light next to OR group near the camera shoe. I would think that you will need to get some form of large bracket to swing the light from. Having said that, I like to have the light on the same vertical axis as the lens - otherwise I'd get displaced shadows. Sooo my thinking would be to have the Rode off set from a side bracket and away from the heat of a light. Make sure you don't get the "nose" of the mic sending a shadow to your frame - yeah? I've done that - yuck!

Now as to lighting - YES! What lighting does, apart from raising the actual gloom level, it provides a "lit" subject, this makes the individual/bride/groom stand out. I'll repeat this: Lighting makes the B&G stand out - got it? Ok, just to make sure: Who is paying for the event? - RIGHT! ! !

Now if you ARE fortunate enough to have a camera that is decent on low level - I don't, I have a Canon XM2 - then hurrah and double hurrah for you! BUT, what a light does do - as per above - is make the talent standout! THEN my XM2 really shines.

This is the budget 20 watt-er I use:

http://www.paguk.com/c6/

. .and do note where the mic is positioned - yeah?

Use a light - well at least have it available and charged up .. just in case. We want you to succeed.

Grazie
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Old July 24th, 2005, 05:32 PM   #6
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Light/Mic Brace

I liked the Paglight. Would something like the Cool-lux work to hold the mic and the light? I see its V shaped and you said you liked the light above the lens.
-Scott
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Old July 25th, 2005, 12:33 AM   #7
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"Would something like the Cool-lux work to hold the mic and the light?" - don't know this product, so I can not comment on it.

Grazie
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Old July 25th, 2005, 01:53 AM   #8
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Yes, we all want you to succeed as Graham so graciously stated. Please take all of his previous advice to heart. All of us ultimately have your best interest in mind. However, I am so concerned that your on-board light will highlight your bride and groom's faces while leaving their bodies underexposed. Don't want you to end up with bodyless, but perfectly exposed faces floating in otherwise darkness. This look isn't so pretty.

I would suggest using available light and a tiny bit of exposure boost only if absolutely necessary. Suggested only because I have been there/done that/and have made the same mistake.

Much luck in the future,

Stephanie Wilson
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Old July 25th, 2005, 02:00 AM   #9
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Stephanie - you are soooo right! However, the thing with the PAG is it has a flip-down diffuser AND mini Barn Doors to "clip" frosties/diffusers to them. And no, I wouldn't want their faces floating about - good in a "post" celebration Marc Chagall kinda way. But yes, good point!

Grazie
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Old July 25th, 2005, 08:48 AM   #10
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I have a PAG setup and love it. I the whole shibang, PAG light, clip to attatch to barn doors and gels to cretae softbox, extra battery (2 batteries are more than enough to film a whole wedding.

"I liked the Paglight. Would something like the Cool-lux work to hold the mic and the light? I see its V shaped and you said you liked the light above the lens.
-Scott"

Don't get the cool lux, it adds too much weight to the camera hotshoe.
I would recommend something like this from MightyWondercam, it's the Mini Rover. It attaches to the bottom of your camcorder, where the quick release plate would be, you can then attach the quick release plate to the bottom of that if you like.
It also makes a great handle to get steadier shot handheld footage.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation

Best of luck and happy shooting,
Michael
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Old July 25th, 2005, 09:44 AM   #11
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Clamps

Thanks guys and Stephanie! I see the issues of overexposure/underexposure and how the Pag-C by use of filters takes this into account.

The issue at this point seems to be how to mount/cast the light. Over the lens makes sense. But the microphone is in the way. I looked at the mini rover Michael mentioned. It makes sense about mounting it under the camera and using it as a handle.

We're not talking about a huge angle when the light is mounted to the side of the camera, but its still an angle (even thought the light can probably be directed on the subject)

I haven't been able to find a lot of clamps but I know they're either attached at the bottom of the camera or on the top shoe. So far the ones on the bottom are "L" shaped, like Michael's Mini-Rover. Are there clamp that are reverse "Z" shaped or side-ways "U" so that they go out to the side and back over the lens? Or does it not make that much difference.

Without actually using one, the Mini-Rover makes a lot of sense to me. But once again, is the light to close to the mic this way and is being at an angle from the subject bad?
-Scott
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Old July 25th, 2005, 10:02 AM   #12
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Scott, i mount my shotgun mic n the Mini Rover handle and place my PAG light on top of my camera.

My actual setup while handheld huring reception is:
VX2100
Bogen / Manfrotto 3273 Quick Release Adapter with 3272 Plate
Beachtek Adpter
Mini Rover
Shotgun Mic (on Mini Rover Handle) Audio-Technica AT815B
Samson Micro32 Wireless system (lav on groom for ceremony & AT822 microphone on mic stand recording ambiant audio from monitor speakers).
DVRigPro: Body handheld support
PAGC6 lighting system (On Camera hotshoe) Battey pack attached to DVRigPro

I also use some IRiver MP3 recoders for (micing the officiant with lav), reception audio, either from sound board or micing the audio from the room with shotgun mics and sync up with video during post).

I hope this makes sense.

But remember my shotgun mic goes on the handle of the Mini Rover, because you will also not pickup any camera noise since you are mounted away from the camera.

Michael
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Old July 26th, 2005, 03:48 PM   #13
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Thanks Michael,
I would have figured out putting the light on the cam and mic on the side two years from now. But it is a much better idea to start right away. Seriously, I didn't think about that.

I also appreciate the other tid bits. Do you have any problems with the iRivers- about only being able to upload the file once? I've heard some things about that but didn't know how much of a problem it is.
-Scott
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Old July 26th, 2005, 04:19 PM   #14
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"Do you have any problems with the iRivers- about only being able to upload the file once? I've heard some things about that but didn't know how much of a problem it is."

Scott, what do you mean by this? When you download your recorded file from your IRiver to your computer, the file is still on your IRiver.
You have to use IRivers Music Manager software to download your mic or line in recorded file to your computer, and when you do this your file is converted into a MP3 file.
After I download my MP3 file onto my computer, I then take it into Sony Vegas to sync up with my audio.
I then import that into Sound Forge and resave it with the same audio settings as my Vegas project, because there will be a slight audio drift due to different audio bitrates.
The IRivers are great and rock solid for recording, the only drawback with them is you can't monitor the audio, to make sure that everythng is ok. That is why I use them for backup and ambiant audio for events. And I use alot of them, as I have 5 that I use for various situations.

Ceremony:
Mic Officiant (Wireless is on Groom)
Mic Podium
Mic monitor speakers or musicians

Reception:
Direct feed from soundboard if applicable
Mic Musicians if a band is present
Mic Speakers (I also might mic using wireless here and feed into my camera)

This way I cam roam freely and have great audio
I hope this clarified it up a bit.

Michael
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Old July 27th, 2005, 05:56 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Routt
Thanks Michael,
I would have figured out putting the light on the cam and mic on the side two years from now. But it is a much better idea to start right away. Seriously, I didn't think about that.

I also appreciate the other tid bits. Do you have any problems with the iRivers- about only being able to upload the file once? I've heard some things about that but didn't know how much of a problem it is.
-Scott
M-audio has a new flash card recorder, the MicroTrack 2496, that looks like a real competitor to the iRivers without the headaches.
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