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Old December 19th, 2010, 07:55 AM   #16
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We go with a mix of music, sometimes chosen by the client, sometimes by us. Some clients just don't bother to give us music preferences so for them we have no choice.

Having said that, of course wedding videos will look dated. When I look back at videos we shot 20 years ago things look dated (hair, fashion, music) and today's videos will be no different. It's reasonable to assume that the clients will look at it with fond nostalgia rather than with a critical eye though.
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Old December 19th, 2010, 11:31 AM   #17
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You could say Inglorious Basterds is dated because it is set in 1944, or Star Wars is not dated because it is set in the future. But we don't use the word in that way.

A "dated" movie is one where the stylistic choices made don't work for modern audiences, with the implication that they did work for audiences in the year they were made. Likewise hairstyles/outfits etc. - any element of mainstream popular culture that at one time enjoyed widespread popularity.

I don't think you can really apply the term to wedding video because there is no style of wedding video that enjoys widespread popular acclaim. Other than the Royal Wedding how many people have ever watched a wedding video?
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Old December 20th, 2010, 12:04 AM   #18
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Well...
In the hands of a good cameraman, and editor, even a cheesy 80's style wedding, will be around as long as there are VCR's available.

Unfortunately, the cinematic style and short form edit, will last a lot less..

Yes, it's dynamic, it impresses me, and it WOWS potential clients....
But in twenty years from now, are the shots of timelapsed clouds, flash cuts and inanimate objects of any real importance??

Don't get me wrong, i definately enjoy watching, and would love to shoot this style of wedding, but as the poster asks. How well do you think wedding films will age?
As well as the faces on those videos are implanted in your memory.

I had an acquaintance pay handsomely for his wedding video.
It was gorgeous, it was a SDE, and it was shortform..

Unfortunately, there wasn't a single important, or memorable shot of his parents.
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Old December 20th, 2010, 08:00 AM   #19
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Hi Peter

Thanks why I shoot my weddings in documentary style ..in 20 years time, yes, the grndparents may not be around any more and watching the wedding DVD will bring back fond memories. I had a "dad" (the bride was in her 50's at her 2nd wedding) who cried openly ..certainly something a creative shooter would want to omit but for the bride it's absolute magic.

Sometimes I think wedding film creators go a bit over the top to the stage where they are showing the bride their own creative skills rather than capturing the raw emotion of the day and the people. I'm often saddened when I see the live audio replaced with music of the bride's choice... I actually often have bride's who book me because I leave all the audio in place and here and there I might add very subtle music tracks but essentially the original audio stands!! It's quite staggering how many don't want what they call "pictures set to music" ... If you look at the next post here I also make a point (actually my "trademark") of doing guest interviews before the reception...that's something that will never age!!

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Old December 21st, 2010, 12:30 AM   #20
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Peter M and Chris H,
There is no wrong or right. Do what you want to do for what ever reason you want to do it. I shoot "cinematic style".... And to be honest, I didn't start doing it for my brides, I did it for me. Simply for "burn out prevention". I shot long form for years and got bored. It was a personal decision that just happen to work out for me. Luckily there is a market to fill, just like there are brides who want a very traditional video there are those who do not. Many of my brides tell me they did not want a "wedding video" until they saw my product. They were going to forgo the "old school" video completely. At the same time I have had brides request things like longform edits or guest interviews and I simply let them know that I do not provide that, but would gladly set them up with a videographer who would. I provide a product that I feel is the best I can produce and still by happy in my career. It's working well, I don't believe years from now any of my clients will watch their wedding films and be any less happy as time goes by... It's what they wanted then knowing full well what options where out there at the time. I also don't believe that just by being creative means you would ever want to omit priceless moments... Especially emotional moments. With that said, I make sure all my clients know full well that there is no guarantee I (nor anyone else they could hire) can capture every single important moment or person throughout the day... I let them know that I will do my best. They also know that my goal is to create a compelling film comprised of moments, details, and emotion it's self from their wedding day that they will want to watch over and over again, not a play by play documentation of their wedding day. There are lots of amazing videographers who take the documentary approach and do it exceptionally well, I'm just not one of them and my brides know that before hiring me. Anyway, my (very long) point being, editing style, use of audio, choice of framerate, whatever... They are all personal choices we make as professionals. There is no right or wrong, we all have different clients with different tastes and style. Videographers are no different than any other artist... Some painters prefer oil, some water color, some are contemporary while others are more abstract... There will alway be someone who appreciates one style of painting over another and that's what is so great about art. As long as there is an audience, it's art, so keep making it!
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Old December 21st, 2010, 08:49 AM   #21
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Music is universal, but song choices are not. My background and upbringing make me more inclined to listen to particular radio stations, while a bride and groom may listen to other stations. I'm 100% for couples choosing their songs. If they absolutely love a songs, chances are it will work just fine with the footage.
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Old December 21st, 2010, 10:07 AM   #22
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Will there be "wedding films" or will it be a more user controlled multimedia experience? I do expect some wedding films shot today will be deconstructed and reassembled into something new.

Wedding films came out of video technology and music videos. As technology and tastes change the product delivered to the bride will change. Take a look at the new ideas of books on devices such as the ipad. We're at the beginning of something new.

Some 100 year old wedding photos look fantastic. I think high production value helps produce timelessness. Will a very high resolution 3D video age better than a typical HDV shot? Maybe. I find old high res black and white immersive. Most video to date not so much.

I can only predict that in 20 years the wedding video will be very different, if it exists in its current form at all.
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Old December 21st, 2010, 01:35 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Jim Snow View Post
But if they pick a rotten song, do you try to steer them away from it or do you just look the other way? "Oh sure, you can lay the "I have creative control" bit on them but that's easier to sound off on a forum about that it is in 'real life.'
Hi Jim,

If a song is "rotten" or I think would not fit the short form, I'd always ask them first why they choose the song.
If they just like how they sound for no reason, we tell them we can "consider" as long as it fits to the shortform.
It might mean a lot to them even if the music doesn't appeal to us. for example, that music was used as a proposal song or their parents wedding music ...
That one, we can't have control. I'd suggest you include that on their DVD. You actually are sure they will like a certain part of the DVD you produced just because you included their song. Again if it is "rotten" for you, you don't have to play the whole entirety of the song, just some parts of it would be ok.
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Old December 21st, 2010, 02:57 PM   #24
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I understand that music tastes vary and that what appeals to some may not be liked by others. For example, country and western music isn't appreciated by some but that doesn't mean country and western style music isn't appropriate for use in a highlights piece for example. But how would you like to be asked to produce a highlights piece to something like this? It's a bit extreme but somebody buys it.

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Old December 21st, 2010, 05:15 PM   #25
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Easy to replace music in the future. Not so easy to explain why there's a shot of the wedding dress in some bushes, or why the DOF is so thin that only the brides left nostril is in focus.
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Old December 21st, 2010, 05:40 PM   #26
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Not so easy to explain why ... the DOF is so thin that only the brides left nostril is in focus.
I love the appropriate use of shallow depth of field (see Hollywood films) but the extreme stuff that some use is just weird and ugly. It's a bit like a mother loving an ugly baby. But some are using it as the latest "Wowie-Zowie". It's a bit like the overuse of slow motion that some used to inflict on everyone. or wiping heart transitions. Maybe after the newness wears off, we will start to see shallow depth of field used in a more professional manner. Did you ever notice on that nice 50mm prime there are other numbers that come after f1.4 like 3.5, 4, 5.6? There's lots of 'professional' choices of numbers to make. ;-)
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Old December 22nd, 2010, 12:33 AM   #27
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although I shoot a 2.8 or lower throughout the day when the reception comes around and the hall goes dark I tend to open up as much as possible because its better to have shallow DOF with better exposure than low exposure and deep appropriate DOF.
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Old December 22nd, 2010, 02:47 PM   #28
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Don,
Artistic decisions and professionalism should not be confused. The use of depth of field to direct the viewers eye or taking a dress and choosing a better location to shoot something that is important to the bride rather than try and shoot a white dress hanging on a dry cleaner's hanger up against a white wall in a dark hotel room is in the best interest of the bride. To me (personally) I think settling for the boring hotel room with bad lighting is lazy... therefor, less professional.

Unfortunately the word professional has become one of those 'buzz' words like gourmet... as in gourmet tv dinner. Everyone uses it... considers themselves to be it... and often times feels if others are not doing what they are doing then others are not it.

Sure, there are those who do things because they see others doing it... there are fads.. and they wont always last. Then you have those who are doing the same thing they have always been doing, playing it safe, often times getting in a rut or stuck in their ways refusing to change. Then there are those who are constantly trying new things, being different, not caring about what other 'professionals' think, doing what makes them and their clients happy.

I admit I've watched some wedding videos on-line and thought to myself "Gee, that video kinda sucked... or... Yeesh, I would have never chosen that song... or it's too fast... too slow... whatever"..... only to find a comment from the bride who absolutely LOVED her video. I'm a lot less quick to judge others work now... maybe we all should be the same.

Really trying not to be too preachy here... but I see a lot of this back and forth between the old school and new school's of thought on this forum. There is no wrong or right, who are you to say someone isn't professional unless they are doing it a certain way. Just be yourself and respect others who do the same. This is a great community, there are a lot of people who are making a huge effort to help others out there, and I believe it's those individuals who are really making a difference in our industry.
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Old December 22nd, 2010, 07:58 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Andrew Waite View Post
Peter M and Chris H,
There is no wrong or right. Do what you want to do for what ever reason you want to do it. I shoot "cinematic style".... And to be honest, I didn't start doing it for my brides, I did it for me. Simply for "burn out prevention". I shot long form for years and got bored. It was a personal decision that just happen to work out for me. Luckily there is a market to fill, just like there are brides who want a very traditional video there are those who do not. Many of my brides tell me they did not want a "wedding video" until they saw my product. They were going to forgo the "old school" video completely. At the same time I have had brides request things like longform edits or guest interviews and I simply let them know that I do not provide that, but would gladly set them up with a videographer who would. I provide a product that I feel is the best I can produce and still by happy in my career. It's working well, I don't believe years from now any of my clients will watch their wedding films and be any less happy as time goes by... It's what they wanted then knowing full well what options where out there at the time. I also don't believe that just by being creative means you would ever want to omit priceless moments... Especially emotional moments. With that said, I make sure all my clients know full well that there is no guarantee I (nor anyone else they could hire) can capture every single important moment or person throughout the day... I let them know that I will do my best. They also know that my goal is to create a compelling film comprised of moments, details, and emotion it's self from their wedding day that they will want to watch over and over again, not a play by play documentation of their wedding day. There are lots of amazing videographers who take the documentary approach and do it exceptionally well, I'm just not one of them and my brides know that before hiring me. Anyway, my (very long) point being, editing style, use of audio, choice of framerate, whatever... They are all personal choices we make as professionals. There is no right or wrong, we all have different clients with different tastes and style. Videographers are no different than any other artist... Some painters prefer oil, some water color, some are contemporary while others are more abstract... There will alway be someone who appreciates one style of painting over another and that's what is so great about art. As long as there is an audience, it's art, so keep making it!
*gets off soapbox*
Andrew: Amen.
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Old December 22nd, 2010, 08:03 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Waite View Post
Peter M and Chris H,
There is no wrong or right. Do what you want to do for what ever reason you want to do it. I shoot "cinematic style".... And to be honest, I didn't start doing it for my brides, I did it for me. Simply for "burn out prevention". I shot long form for years and got bored. It was a personal decision that just happen to work out for me. Luckily there is a market to fill, just like there are brides who want a very traditional video there are those who do not. Many of my brides tell me they did not want a "wedding video" until they saw my product. They were going to forgo the "old school" video completely. At the same time I have had brides request things like longform edits or guest interviews and I simply let them know that I do not provide that, but would gladly set them up with a videographer who would. I provide a product that I feel is the best I can produce and still by happy in my career. It's working well, I don't believe years from now any of my clients will watch their wedding films and be any less happy as time goes by... It's what they wanted then knowing full well what options where out there at the time. I also don't believe that just by being creative means you would ever want to omit priceless moments... Especially emotional moments. With that said, I make sure all my clients know full well that there is no guarantee I (nor anyone else they could hire) can capture every single important moment or person throughout the day... I let them know that I will do my best. They also know that my goal is to create a compelling film comprised of moments, details, and emotion it's self from their wedding day that they will want to watch over and over again, not a play by play documentation of their wedding day. There are lots of amazing videographers who take the documentary approach and do it exceptionally well, I'm just not one of them and my brides know that before hiring me. Anyway, my (very long) point being, editing style, use of audio, choice of framerate, whatever... They are all personal choices we make as professionals. There is no right or wrong, we all have different clients with different tastes and style. Videographers are no different than any other artist... Some painters prefer oil, some water color, some are contemporary while others are more abstract... There will alway be someone who appreciates one style of painting over another and that's what is so great about art. As long as there is an audience, it's art, so keep making it!
*gets off soapbox*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Figueroa View Post
Music is universal, but song choices are not. My background and upbringing make me more inclined to listen to particular radio stations, while a bride and groom may listen to other stations. I'm 100% for couples choosing their songs. If they absolutely love a songs, chances are it will work just fine with the footage.
Christopher, I'm the biggest Doors/Jim Morrison fan there is, that doesn't mean I am going to use "Light My Fire" on a brides wedding video. However, I still choose the music for the videos because it is my work. Heck, she may even want me to use LMF but I know it wouldn't work so I wouldn't use it.
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