DSLR Shooters - Have you ever had a 'turf' problem with the photographer?

Jim Snow · December 22nd, 2010, 09:33 PM

I believe the pendulum will swing as far as the standing of the videographer versus the photographer as the quality of video work continues to improve. As more and more people recognize this, things will change. Unfortunately there will be some who will wake and say, "What happened" as reality soaks in.

Ken Diewert · December 22nd, 2010, 11:08 PM

Weddings are just a small part of what I do but I am really looking to add the photography component when booking. That is, work with a regular photog or two and offer a package deal. Otherwise we will keep banging into each other, even though I really do get along with most of them. But I have noticed a big change when I show up with a DSLR vs. a traditional video camera.

In my case, I told the B&G about the incident, and they told me that they wished that they hadn't booked the photog at all.

Most photogs biggest threats come from their own kind. I was at a Bridal show last year where practically every second booth was a photog. One photog had a deal of $899 for a wedding package including an engagement shoot. As one hi-end photog told me, that's not sustainable. But with the digital revolution comes change. A semi-pro can blast off 2,000 shots and is bound to get a few good ones.

I was one of only two video guys at each bridal show I attended, and my best advertising came from the poor quality of the other guys work.

Michael Simons · December 23rd, 2010, 06:23 AM

Ken, my experience with bridal shows is that those photographers at every other booth meet with a bride before me and they usually offer video or have someone they refer...so do the DJs. So, you may think you are 1 of 2 videographers at the bridal show, when in reality there are possibly 10 vendors offering video.

Buba Kastorski · December 23rd, 2010, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Strange

the tog NEVER makes the effort to come and introduce him/herself to me, NEVER.
I've experimented a few times and held back my instincts to go and say hello first, thinking they'll eventually make the effort, how naive i was.
And I'm a pleasant, approachable guy!

That's strange, but i noticed that too, I am always introduce myself first,
I also would like to think that I am pleasant and approachable :)

Noel Lising · December 23rd, 2010, 08:22 AM

I shot a wedding last September and it was actually the reverse for me. I had 2 photogs with the 5d, one was shooting videos and one was doing stills. Did I walk-out and feel threatened? No. They were kind enough to ask permission. I guess that is the key, communication. Have to agree some people are prima donnas. These 2 photogs are award winning photographers from what I gathered and they have no sense of "royalty" whatsoever.

My 2 cents. Merry Christmas everyone.

Michael Simons · December 23rd, 2010, 11:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Strange
the tog NEVER makes the effort to come and introduce him/herself to me, NEVER.
I've experimented a few times and held back my instincts to go and say hello first, thinking they'll eventually make the effort, how naive i was.
And I'm a pleasant, approachable guy!

That's strange, but i noticed that too, I am always introduce myself first,
I also would like to think that I am pleasant and approachable :)

I'm always the first to introduce myself too. This past wedding season, I finally held out and waited for the photog to say Hi first..it took him about 1/2 hour at the brides house before he finally did.

Claire Buckley · December 24th, 2010, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Snow

I read a report on another forum about a photographer who was so upset with the videographer's 5D and 7D cameras that he walked off the job accusing the videographer of taking photos. Have you ever encountered this?

But I did have a photog turn up to a client meeting telling me he was going to mount a video camera on legs in a location where I told the client I would stand. He told me not to worry (not even thinking about my location space) and said I can edit and add music to mine.

I told the client they already had someone to shoot their video and left.

I still get photogs calling me "love" (to many older people here in the UK it's a term of endearment, but it's a term often used to patronise). So I kindly ask them to call me Claire Love.

Don Miller · December 24th, 2010, 02:49 PM

It's getting pretty clear that "imaging" should be done by one vendor. Especially with the increasing ability to extract high quality stills from video.

One problem the photog has is that many still have an undetermined profit based on sales of proofs. If he's nervous about money he may believe that the better job the video guy does, the less he will sell. That thinking is not necessarily rational, but people can get strange about money.

I believe one can hope for cordial relations with other vendors, but should expect professionalism.

Denny Kyser · December 25th, 2010, 10:36 PM

I have not read every reply here but will chime in anyways.

I am a photographer who does some basic video, since there are no videographers with in an hour of us, so I have LOTS of experience in photography, a little in video.

Photographers make their living selling images, and just like the video guys have a lot of stress on a wedding day.

I have worked both as a photographer only, with a video crew, and as video only with another photographer. Communication saves so much trouble, just mention you only need a few shots for menus and covers.

As far as equipment goes, dont think because you have prime lenses you are better. Do your cameras write to two cards at once? If you walk into a restaurant with an expensive apron and chefs knife can you cook better than the chef?

I have been noticing DJ's getting into the game now, started taking stills to add to their DJ business, now with a 5D II, adding video.

Imagine how you would feel walking into a reception and having a dj set up with a couple 5d II's on video tripods. Thats how photographers feel until some sort of communication is established. They should be fine as soon as they realize what your doing.

As the market gets flooded with lower priced electronics, professionals will be a little edgy trying to protect their profession.

Our contracts states we are to be the only photographer taking pictures. We have never stopped guests from taking pictures but 1 time in 8 years told a DJ if he did not stop we would sit down until he was finished, pulled out a contract that was signed by the bride so he could see for himself. I explained he would be responsible to provide professional images if he got in our way again. I had many photos of his bald head between us and the bride and groom.

Michael Simons · December 26th, 2010, 08:51 AM

Our contracts states we are to be the only photographer taking pictures. We have never stopped guests from taking pictures but 1 time in 8 years told a DJ if he did not stop we would sit down until he was finished, pulled out a contract that was signed by the bride so he could see for himself. I explained he would be responsible to provide professional images if he got in our way again. I had many photos of his bald head between us and the bride and groom.[/QUOTE]

hey Denny. Now with DJ's taking photos, the videographers job is even more difficult. I've had 2 DJ photographers and 2 regular photographers on the dance floor at one time with me being the only video. Honestly, I don't know why the photographer even needs two people for the dancing that takes place later on in the night.

Denny Kyser · December 26th, 2010, 12:57 PM

The need for 2 photographers becomes more important as more guests and DJ's take positions during the reception. It becomes more and more difficult to get clear shots of the bride and groom. I just love it when the DJ announces part way through the first dance the cake cutting is next and to go get a good spot for pictures.

We know that the bride does not care to hear that someone stood in front of us (both photog and videographer) They only care that they get the shot.

I mean for real, point and shoot cameras, and cameras with on camera flash step in front of you when you have off camera lighting setup and clearly were hired to do a job.

Its probably going to come down to enforcing the contracts.

as far as why 2 photographers to take pictures during the dancing, its usually due to not wanting to just sit around. Hard to have DJ's shooting, to videographers shooting and having one of your crew just sitting. I always tell them to at least look like your taking pictures, but hard to just stand and hold a camera.

Again I have been on both sides, and both sides can stink, or it can be a fun experience for both. Even have done some video of the photogs working for their websites and taken some stills of the videographers for their marketing. I go by the golden rule, "Play Nice"

Jim Snow · December 26th, 2010, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny Kyser

I just love it when the DJ announces part way through the first dance the cake cutting is next and to go get a good spot for pictures.

We know that the bride does not care to hear that someone stood in front of us (both photog and videographer) They only care that they get the shot.

I always brace myself when the DJ says that because I know I'm going to get hammered. I recently was shooting the cake cutting and a small but determined lady plowed right into me as I was shooting the B&G feeding each other the cake. So right at the wrong moment, there is a big jolt on my video when she plowed into me, She couldn't have cared less that I was the official videographer. The only thing she cared about was her point and shoot camera photo.

That's one of the things that I'm going to add to my list of things to discuss with the DJ prior to the reception. There is NO good reason for him to say this. When a few people jump up and run over by the cake when he says this, it also blocks the view for everyone else in the room. Why does a DJ say this!? Is that the only thing he can think of to say?

I have also had the DJ say a similar thing just before the B&G's grand entrance at the reception. The result is a couple of dozen people rushing over to the door with their beloved point and shoot cameras which blocks the view of the entrance for the photographer, videographer as well as the rest of the guests. Why!?

Michael Simons · December 26th, 2010, 04:50 PM

[
as far as why 2 photographers to take pictures during the dancing, its usually due to not wanting to just sit around. Hard to have DJ's shooting, to videographers shooting and having one of your crew just sitting. I always tell them to at least look like your taking pictures, but hard to just stand and hold a camera.

Hmm..that kinda stinks then because at that point the photographer is making my job more difficult than it has to be. There's some exciting dance footage going on that really makes great video and i'm usually elbow to elbow with a photographer who's photos will never even make the album. Now that I know he's really just there so he's not bored is a little more disturbing.

Denny Kyser · December 26th, 2010, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Simons

Hmm..that kinda stinks then because at that point the photographer is making my job more difficult than it has to be. There's some exciting dance footage going on that really makes great video and i'm usually elbow to elbow with a photographer who's photos will never even make the album. Now that I know he's really just there so he's not bored is a little more disturbing.

Well couldn't this be said about using 2 video cameras for the reception also?

If only one photographer and one videographer were working less people getting in the way. Wanting different cuts of the toast is no different than wanting different shots of it for the photographer.

Also, since there is no continuous shooting of stills, a second shooter is the "back up"
For me the second shooter is getting the creative shots, wide angle guests etc, while I get the "Must Have" shots.

Remember for every time you get annoyed with the photographer, there is a good chance they were feeling the same way.

Jim Snow · December 26th, 2010, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny Kyser

Well couldn't this be said about using 2 video cameras for the reception also?

If only one photographer and one videographer were working less people getting in the way. Wanting different cuts of the toast is no different than wanting different shots of it for the photographer.

Also, since there is no continuous shooting of stills, a second shooter is the "back up"
For me the second shooter is getting the creative shots, wide angle guests etc, while I get the "Must Have" shots.

Remember for every time you get annoyed with the photographer, there is a good chance they were feeling the same way.

This sounds like a justification for having one organization provide both photo and video services. I don't mean one who "also" offers the other service. I'm describing an organization that provides both and gives them equal billing - and skill. That way, these 'issues' are easily resolved because they are just personnel problems with one boss to make the decisions.

There have been times when I realized intuitively that the photographer did not wish me well. Why? Because he feels that the better the video coverage is, the more it crowds his turf. It's human nature. He truly doesn't want to hear later from the B&G how "wonderful" the wedding video is. The real professionals deal with this much better because they are established and have nothing new to prove. Some of these guys are great to work with. It's the 'wanna-be's' that you have to be careful with.

December 22nd, 2010, 11:08 PM	#17
Ken Diewert Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vancouver Island, Canada Posts: 1,200	Weddings are just a small part of what I do but I am really looking to add the photography component when booking. That is, work with a regular photog or two and offer a package deal. Otherwise we will keep banging into each other, even though I really do get along with most of them. But I have noticed a big change when I show up with a DSLR vs. a traditional video camera. In my case, I told the B&G about the incident, and they told me that they wished that they hadn't booked the photog at all. Most photogs biggest threats come from their own kind. I was at a Bridal show last year where practically every second booth was a photog. One photog had a deal of $899 for a wedding package including an engagement shoot. As one hi-end photog told me, that's not sustainable. But with the digital revolution comes change. A semi-pro can blast off 2,000 shots and is bound to get a few good ones. I was one of only two video guys at each bridal show I attended, and my best advertising came from the poor quality of the other guys work. __________________ C100, 5DMk2, FCPX

December 23rd, 2010, 08:22 AM	#20
Noel Lising Major Player Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 789	Reverse for me I shot a wedding last September and it was actually the reverse for me. I had 2 photogs with the 5d, one was shooting videos and one was doing stills. Did I walk-out and feel threatened? No. They were kind enough to ask permission. I guess that is the key, communication. Have to agree some people are prima donnas. These 2 photogs are award winning photographers from what I gathered and they have no sense of "royalty" whatsoever. My 2 cents. Merry Christmas everyone. __________________ Noel Lising

December 25th, 2010, 10:36 PM	#24
Denny Kyser Major Player Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Warren, Pa Posts: 785	I have not read every reply here but will chime in anyways. I am a photographer who does some basic video, since there are no videographers with in an hour of us, so I have LOTS of experience in photography, a little in video. Photographers make their living selling images, and just like the video guys have a lot of stress on a wedding day. I have worked both as a photographer only, with a video crew, and as video only with another photographer. Communication saves so much trouble, just mention you only need a few shots for menus and covers. As far as equipment goes, dont think because you have prime lenses you are better. Do your cameras write to two cards at once? If you walk into a restaurant with an expensive apron and chefs knife can you cook better than the chef? I have been noticing DJ's getting into the game now, started taking stills to add to their DJ business, now with a 5D II, adding video. Imagine how you would feel walking into a reception and having a dj set up with a couple 5d II's on video tripods. Thats how photographers feel until some sort of communication is established. They should be fine as soon as they realize what your doing. As the market gets flooded with lower priced electronics, professionals will be a little edgy trying to protect their profession. Our contracts states we are to be the only photographer taking pictures. We have never stopped guests from taking pictures but 1 time in 8 years told a DJ if he did not stop we would sit down until he was finished, pulled out a contract that was signed by the bride so he could see for himself. I explained he would be responsible to provide professional images if he got in our way again. I had many photos of his bald head between us and the bride and groom. __________________ 2 Canon XF305's Kyser Photography www.kyserphoto.com

December 26th, 2010, 12:57 PM	#26
Denny Kyser Major Player Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Warren, Pa Posts: 785	The need for 2 photographers becomes more important as more guests and DJ's take positions during the reception. It becomes more and more difficult to get clear shots of the bride and groom. I just love it when the DJ announces part way through the first dance the cake cutting is next and to go get a good spot for pictures. We know that the bride does not care to hear that someone stood in front of us (both photog and videographer) They only care that they get the shot. I mean for real, point and shoot cameras, and cameras with on camera flash step in front of you when you have off camera lighting setup and clearly were hired to do a job. Its probably going to come down to enforcing the contracts. as far as why 2 photographers to take pictures during the dancing, its usually due to not wanting to just sit around. Hard to have DJ's shooting, to videographers shooting and having one of your crew just sitting. I always tell them to at least look like your taking pictures, but hard to just stand and hold a camera. Again I have been on both sides, and both sides can stink, or it can be a fun experience for both. Even have done some video of the photogs working for their websites and taken some stills of the videographers for their marketing. I go by the golden rule, "Play Nice" __________________ 2 Canon XF305's Kyser Photography www.kyserphoto.com

December 22nd, 2010, 09:33 PM	#16
Jim Snow Trustee Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Santa Clara, CA Posts: 1,104	I believe the pendulum will swing as far as the standing of the videographer versus the photographer as the quality of video work continues to improve. As more and more people recognize this, things will change. Unfortunately there will be some who will wake and say, "What happened" as reality soaks in.

December 23rd, 2010, 06:23 AM	#18
Michael Simons Major Player Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Red Bank, NJ Posts: 553	Ken, my experience with bridal shows is that those photographers at every other booth meet with a bride before me and they usually offer video or have someone they refer...so do the DJs. So, you may think you are 1 of 2 videographers at the bridal show, when in reality there are possibly 10 vendors offering video.

December 23rd, 2010, 11:54 AM	#21
Michael Simons Major Player Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Red Bank, NJ Posts: 553	Quote: Originally Posted by James Strange the tog NEVER makes the effort to come and introduce him/herself to me, NEVER. I've experimented a few times and held back my instincts to go and say hello first, thinking they'll eventually make the effort, how naive i was. And I'm a pleasant, approachable guy! That's strange, but i noticed that too, I am always introduce myself first, I also would like to think that I am pleasant and approachable :) I'm always the first to introduce myself too. This past wedding season, I finally held out and waited for the photog to say Hi first..it took him about 1/2 hour at the brides house before he finally did.

December 24th, 2010, 02:49 PM	#23
Don Miller Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 706	It's getting pretty clear that "imaging" should be done by one vendor. Especially with the increasing ability to extract high quality stills from video. One problem the photog has is that many still have an undetermined profit based on sales of proofs. If he's nervous about money he may believe that the better job the video guy does, the less he will sell. That thinking is not necessarily rational, but people can get strange about money. I believe one can hope for cordial relations with other vendors, but should expect professionalism.

December 26th, 2010, 08:51 AM	#25
Michael Simons Major Player Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Red Bank, NJ Posts: 553	Our contracts states we are to be the only photographer taking pictures. We have never stopped guests from taking pictures but 1 time in 8 years told a DJ if he did not stop we would sit down until he was finished, pulled out a contract that was signed by the bride so he could see for himself. I explained he would be responsible to provide professional images if he got in our way again. I had many photos of his bald head between us and the bride and groom.[/QUOTE] hey Denny. Now with DJ's taking photos, the videographers job is even more difficult. I've had 2 DJ photographers and 2 regular photographers on the dance floor at one time with me being the only video. Honestly, I don't know why the photographer even needs two people for the dancing that takes place later on in the night.

December 26th, 2010, 04:50 PM	#28
Michael Simons Major Player Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Red Bank, NJ Posts: 553	[ as far as why 2 photographers to take pictures during the dancing, its usually due to not wanting to just sit around. Hard to have DJ's shooting, to videographers shooting and having one of your crew just sitting. I always tell them to at least look like your taking pictures, but hard to just stand and hold a camera. Hmm..that kinda stinks then because at that point the photographer is making my job more difficult than it has to be. There's some exciting dance footage going on that really makes great video and i'm usually elbow to elbow with a photographer who's photos will never even make the album. Now that I know he's really just there so he's not bored is a little more disturbing.