Wedding nightmare

Johannes Soetandi · April 14th, 2011, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wiley

She paid an apparently very famous English wedding photographer as well as an assistant to fly to Australia for her wedding. It was upwards of $20,000 from what I could gather. I honestly don't think this guy used anything wider that a 28mm lens (on a full frame camera!) for the entire day. It's not only intrusive, as well as blocking the guests views, it is also goes against all the standards and techniques of good portraiture.

Maybe that's why these photographers get paid really well. Because they dont care about other vendors as long as they get what they need. And because they get paid real well, some thought they have the right to be the more important vendor on the day. I agree that as videog we can't just let them ruin our footages.. we have to work around it.. cooperatively if possible, otherwise competitively

Paul, the photographer standing right behind the B&G when they kissed was definitely unacceptable. Every photos of them kissing (including any if taken by guests) will have him as a background, except for his own shot. I reckon it would be the most selfish position any vendor could've stand in.

Nigel, thanks for posting that link. Really inspiring!

Chris Harding · April 14th, 2011, 08:35 AM

Nigel???

I'm talking 15 to 20 inches!!! During the ring ceremony the lens hood actually touched the bride's finger and then the minister had had just about enough and pushed them away!!!

If these two idiots had been 15' to 20' I would have been quite happy ..I could have worked around them!!

Vincent, I was a wedding photographer for 10 years using film and my Mamiya RB-67's ..a 220 roll of film allowed you 16 exposures and if you carried 10 rolls it was a lot!!! These young guys don't know squat about composition ..If you shoot enough there is a 99% chance that one of out the 10 exposures you did of the ring will be good!!! In film days we shot the ring exchange once and it WAS good ...remember you had no way of even seeing the result until you went back to your lab and processed the 21/4" wide film strip!!!

My mate here shoots an average of 3000 exposures for the ceremony and photoshoot ...out of that he is pretty much certain to get 100 good shots!!!

Chris

Vincent Oliver · April 14th, 2011, 09:06 AM

I'm not wanting to sound like a die hard old codger Chris, but I agree with you. I guess that everything changes including the ethics of shooting a wedding. In my day the ceremony was regarded as a religious event and if you were lucky then the vicar would allow you to take a picture at the moment of ring exchange. Today I see guys (and girls) blasting away with flashes at every opportunity. The wedding has just become another money spinner, as you say, shoot enough and you can't fail.

The one thing that I find sad, is that the day is dominated by the photographer and everyone goes along with it.

Maybe I am just getting too old for this business.

D.J. Ammons · April 15th, 2011, 09:09 PM

Hmmmm.....looked to me like Regina was marrying one of her father's friends!

Those two white elongated flash units on top of those still cameras popping up all the tme was almost like two cartoon characterss peering in on the proceedings.

It was easy to laugh from afar but I am sure if you were the videographer that day you would feel more like crying.

So far it has not come up but after what I have read on this forum in this thread and others I think I will probably avoid foreign weddings if possible.

Chris Harding · April 15th, 2011, 10:31 PM

What really amuses me is that if the photog needs a shot from your video position they sit right down on the floor so they are well clear of your shot but forget that they have a flash and the usual piece of white card sticking up well over their head....what I usually get is a great shot of the top of the flash unit and the white card!!!

I wonder if photogs would drive under a highway bridge with an abnormally high load in the back of a pickup truck and then wonder what that loud crashing noise was?????

Chris

Michael Simons · April 16th, 2011, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

What really amuses me is that if the photog needs a shot from your video position they sit right down on the floor so they are well clear of your shot but forget that they have a flash and the usual piece of white card sticking up well over their head....what I usually get is a great shot of the top of the flash unit and the white card!!!

I wonder if photogs would drive under a highway bridge with an abnormally high load in the back of a pickup truck and then wonder what that loud crashing noise was?????

Chris

Chris, I hate when the photog stands next to me and his flash is pointed in my eyes. It's like they have no idea where their flash is going.

Johannes Soetandi · April 17th, 2011, 07:57 PM

Much like the guy on Nigel's link, I've also came across well known photographers who do not use flash until it becomes necessary. And they actually turned down the beeping noise from the autofocus. I've really come to appreciate their professionalism as they know how to make use of natural light and understand the respect they need to give to not just other vendors, but also the guests of the ceremony.

Steven Davis · May 3rd, 2011, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Mailath

I used to believe this but I've run across a photog who shoots so close he stands about as far away from the couple as the celebrant - there is NOTHING I can do so I simply refuse to work with him anymore. I run 3 cameras and 2 operators and he's still in the way - He's well regarded as a professional of long standing and says he works well with other video companies (maybe it's just me) - yes we did have a discussion about it!

and yes.. he is actually checking his shots while he's standing right next to the groom

Well crap, I was going to post one of my screenshots, but they pale in comparrison to that dude. Man, he doesn't give a rats arse about you at all, more over, he doesn't care about his/your clients. He just cares about himself.

By the way, I have a disclaimer in my contract that I am not responsible for the photog getting in my shot. I've only worked with two evil ones in 8 years. That's why we are going to start offering both, I'm tired of the drama. That and we can do better than a 1/3 of the ones we run into.

Ryan Czaplinski · May 3rd, 2011, 11:28 PM

I've been fortunate to work with some decent photographers who are kind enough to talk to be about where they're at as well as be courteous to my part of the shooting. I tend to also be one of those people who like to get real close on the zooms, so many times you never see the photographer in there if they are sorta in front of me (if they are at all). A lot of what I see are too wide of shots. I try to get nice and close to the action to make it more intimate in my style.

Personally I think it's equally professional of a photographer if they show some courtesy to other fellow media vendors trying to make the best of their day and not getting in the video people's way. For me though it comes down to just approaching the photographer(s), be friendly and get an idea what they're doing and then work either with or around them. Generally they've been great.

That is one of the big advantages to my company is that we have a photographer/videographer team and that is a huge thing in already having a team that works well with each other to making sure both the mediums are well covered and presented with minimal intrusion.

It's a tough topic and I guess there isn't one sure-fire way to making things work every time. The Wedding couple just needs to know this up front and I always have this on my contract that it's incidental things out of my control if I'm in a pre-positioned shot, stuck there and being blocked by anyone. I adapt fast and get a different angle if needed, but I do put that in the contract just to cover myself in case.

That looked like a doozy of a wedding trying to avoid those photographers getting right in front of your shots. Sorry, man. :(

Noel Lising · May 4th, 2011, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Czaplinski

That is one of the big advantages to my company is that we have a photographer/videographer team and that is a huge thing in already having a team that works well with each other to making sure both the mediums are well covered and presented with minimal intrusion.
(

Agree a 100% we offer video and photography and the other times I get hired by a studio it's with a photographer I worked with. It's smooth sailing all the way, sometimes the photog do get carried away but is quick to apologize.

Noel Lising · May 4th, 2011, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vincent Oliver

It's funny how wedding photography has evolved. I started out as a stills photographer and would cover a full wedding with 10 rolls of 120 film (120 exposures max) Now I see photographers with digital cameras shooting hundreds if not one or two thousand pictures at a wedding. They all seem to need re-assurance that the last picture taken was OK. Maybe this is both the blessing and curse for digital capture.

Having said that, I wouldn't want to go back to shooting film. (or tape for video cameras)

I still run into a photog who shoots with film, and I agree film photographers are generally more conservative (volume wise) in shooting pictures. During the reception he was down to 8 shots (cake, bouquet and whatever else is happening). I guess they do it because they can, my buddy who's been a wedding photographer for 20 years, shoots hundreds of pictures with digital, something he can't do back then with film.

Chris Harding · May 4th, 2011, 08:12 AM

Hey Noel

That's my answer as well..a combined package and then I have the photog I want to work with and we respect each others space. However, more than often the bride has already booked a photog!!

The ladies last weekend were somewhat surprised when I asked nicely don't stand in front of my camera..I don't mind you crossing my field of view as I can cover that....the answer was "What if I need to take a shot from where your camera is????" She actually got in the way during the rings too!!!

I still like the Tazer idea with a warning....stand in front of my camera and you will get zapped!!!

Is taking just one step to the left or right going to make your shot impossible????

Chris

Michael Kenney · May 4th, 2011, 05:08 PM

Too funny watching that footage. Helped shoot a wedding this weekend and I know several shots of mine had to be adjusted or were just plain ruined by the photographers.. but one of the other camera operators had the worst of it.

One of the few times we have shot in a church where we could not move. This poor girl (college intern hoping to get into the business) is helping out for free. So we put her at the back of the church in the center of the aisle so she can get the central shots and the money shot of the bride and groom turning and exiting the church.. we're reviewing the tapes while they are being imported into FCP on Sunday.. right after the Bride and Groom kiss.. the screen is filled with the back of the photographer's head for the next ten seconds. Our camera girl slides to one side.. only to have the photographer's assistant block her shot with his back while he's holding the flash.

Thankfully, one of our spots was in the balcony by the organ just above that so we still got the shot. That taser idea sounds like a great solution. ;)

Johannes Soetandi · May 5th, 2011, 04:03 AM

What about photographer who loves to direct?

I've worked with one who just love to tell the bride & groom what to do. And as I'm editing I lose almost all the natural conversation in it as the photographer kept chirping in..

"Look here"
"Smile here"
"Wear that vest"
"Now smile again"
"Look up a bit"
"Look there"
"LOL"
@#^*&^@#

And he stands very close to my camera so it was really loud. While it gets the B&G laughing with his joke (and he gets all smiley faces on his shots), I dont feel comfortable with what I'll be seeing (or hearing) in the final edit. Surely he doesnt have to direct everything. :(

Chris Harding · May 5th, 2011, 07:03 AM

Hey Johannes

I never hear directions from the photog cos they only near me during the ceremony and they dare not give directions!! I don't do any photoshoot with the photogs!! After the group pics I borrow the B&G for about 15 minutes and do a video shoot away from them..then the photog has them all to him/herself!!

I really cannot see the point of a videographer shooting footage of the photog taking stills of the bridal party...yet I see these guys doing it all the time????

Chris

April 14th, 2011, 08:35 AM	#32
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Wedding nightmare Nigel??? I'm talking 15 to 20 inches!!! During the ring ceremony the lens hood actually touched the bride's finger and then the minister had had just about enough and pushed them away!!! If these two idiots had been 15' to 20' I would have been quite happy ..I could have worked around them!! Vincent, I was a wedding photographer for 10 years using film and my Mamiya RB-67's ..a 220 roll of film allowed you 16 exposures and if you carried 10 rolls it was a lot!!! These young guys don't know squat about composition ..If you shoot enough there is a 99% chance that one of out the 10 exposures you did of the ring will be good!!! In film days we shot the ring exchange once and it WAS good ...remember you had no way of even seeing the result until you went back to your lab and processed the 21/4" wide film strip!!! My mate here shoots an average of 3000 exposures for the ceremony and photoshoot ...out of that he is pretty much certain to get 100 good shots!!! Chris

April 14th, 2011, 09:06 AM	#33
Vincent Oliver Trustee Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chislehurst, London Posts: 1,724	Re: Wedding nightmare I'm not wanting to sound like a die hard old codger Chris, but I agree with you. I guess that everything changes including the ethics of shooting a wedding. In my day the ceremony was regarded as a religious event and if you were lucky then the vicar would allow you to take a picture at the moment of ring exchange. Today I see guys (and girls) blasting away with flashes at every opportunity. The wedding has just become another money spinner, as you say, shoot enough and you can't fail. The one thing that I find sad, is that the day is dominated by the photographer and everyone goes along with it. Maybe I am just getting too old for this business. __________________ Eyes are a deaf man’s ears. Ears are a blind man’s eyes

April 15th, 2011, 09:09 PM	#34
D.J. Ammons Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 506	Re: Wedding nightmare Hmmmm.....looked to me like Regina was marrying one of her father's friends! Those two white elongated flash units on top of those still cameras popping up all the tme was almost like two cartoon characterss peering in on the proceedings. It was easy to laugh from afar but I am sure if you were the videographer that day you would feel more like crying. So far it has not come up but after what I have read on this forum in this thread and others I think I will probably avoid foreign weddings if possible.

April 15th, 2011, 10:31 PM	#35
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Wedding nightmare What really amuses me is that if the photog needs a shot from your video position they sit right down on the floor so they are well clear of your shot but forget that they have a flash and the usual piece of white card sticking up well over their head....what I usually get is a great shot of the top of the flash unit and the white card!!! I wonder if photogs would drive under a highway bridge with an abnormally high load in the back of a pickup truck and then wonder what that loud crashing noise was????? Chris

April 17th, 2011, 07:57 PM	#37
Johannes Soetandi Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Perth, Australia Posts: 387	Re: Wedding nightmare Much like the guy on Nigel's link, I've also came across well known photographers who do not use flash until it becomes necessary. And they actually turned down the beeping noise from the autofocus. I've really come to appreciate their professionalism as they know how to make use of natural light and understand the respect they need to give to not just other vendors, but also the guests of the ceremony.

May 3rd, 2011, 11:28 PM	#39
Ryan Czaplinski Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 46	Re: Wedding nightmare I've been fortunate to work with some decent photographers who are kind enough to talk to be about where they're at as well as be courteous to my part of the shooting. I tend to also be one of those people who like to get real close on the zooms, so many times you never see the photographer in there if they are sorta in front of me (if they are at all). A lot of what I see are too wide of shots. I try to get nice and close to the action to make it more intimate in my style. Personally I think it's equally professional of a photographer if they show some courtesy to other fellow media vendors trying to make the best of their day and not getting in the video people's way. For me though it comes down to just approaching the photographer(s), be friendly and get an idea what they're doing and then work either with or around them. Generally they've been great. That is one of the big advantages to my company is that we have a photographer/videographer team and that is a huge thing in already having a team that works well with each other to making sure both the mediums are well covered and presented with minimal intrusion. It's a tough topic and I guess there isn't one sure-fire way to making things work every time. The Wedding couple just needs to know this up front and I always have this on my contract that it's incidental things out of my control if I'm in a pre-positioned shot, stuck there and being blocked by anyone. I adapt fast and get a different angle if needed, but I do put that in the contract just to cover myself in case. That looked like a doozy of a wedding trying to avoid those photographers getting right in front of your shots. Sorry, man. :(

May 4th, 2011, 08:12 AM	#42
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Wedding nightmare Hey Noel That's my answer as well..a combined package and then I have the photog I want to work with and we respect each others space. However, more than often the bride has already booked a photog!! The ladies last weekend were somewhat surprised when I asked nicely don't stand in front of my camera..I don't mind you crossing my field of view as I can cover that....the answer was "What if I need to take a shot from where your camera is????" She actually got in the way during the rings too!!! I still like the Tazer idea with a warning....stand in front of my camera and you will get zapped!!! Is taking just one step to the left or right going to make your shot impossible???? Chris

May 4th, 2011, 05:08 PM	#43
Michael Kenney New Boot Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Centreville, VA Posts: 9	Re: Wedding nightmare Too funny watching that footage. Helped shoot a wedding this weekend and I know several shots of mine had to be adjusted or were just plain ruined by the photographers.. but one of the other camera operators had the worst of it. One of the few times we have shot in a church where we could not move. This poor girl (college intern hoping to get into the business) is helping out for free. So we put her at the back of the church in the center of the aisle so she can get the central shots and the money shot of the bride and groom turning and exiting the church.. we're reviewing the tapes while they are being imported into FCP on Sunday.. right after the Bride and Groom kiss.. the screen is filled with the back of the photographer's head for the next ten seconds. Our camera girl slides to one side.. only to have the photographer's assistant block her shot with his back while he's holding the flash. Thankfully, one of our spots was in the balcony by the organ just above that so we still got the shot. That taser idea sounds like a great solution. ;)

May 5th, 2011, 04:03 AM	#44
Johannes Soetandi Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Perth, Australia Posts: 387	Re: Wedding nightmare What about photographer who loves to direct? I've worked with one who just love to tell the bride & groom what to do. And as I'm editing I lose almost all the natural conversation in it as the photographer kept chirping in.. "Look here" "Smile here" "Wear that vest" "Now smile again" "Look up a bit" "Look there" "LOL" @#^*&^@# And he stands very close to my camera so it was really loud. While it gets the B&G laughing with his joke (and he gets all smiley faces on his shots), I dont feel comfortable with what I'll be seeing (or hearing) in the final edit. Surely he doesnt have to direct everything. :(

May 5th, 2011, 07:03 AM	#45
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Wedding nightmare Hey Johannes I never hear directions from the photog cos they only near me during the ceremony and they dare not give directions!! I don't do any photoshoot with the photogs!! After the group pics I borrow the B&G for about 15 minutes and do a video shoot away from them..then the photog has them all to him/herself!! I really cannot see the point of a videographer shooting footage of the photog taking stills of the bridal party...yet I see these guys doing it all the time???? Chris