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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old April 18th, 2011, 08:39 AM   #16
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Re: RED for wedding video production

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Originally Posted by Chris Hurd View Post
I don't think John intends to be offensive -- instead he simply might not realize just how high-end the wedding video market can get! It is by no means at all "the lowest common denominator," not by a long shot.
No offence was intended and in no way was I trying to devalue the work done by wedding videographers. They provide a special service which preserves precious memories for decades to come.

I'm fully aware of just how high end the wedding video market can be, but statement was not concerning the quality of work, I'm talking about the average clients and the average budget.

Other forms of video's have a market with a much higher dollar value - music videos, commercials, even corporate video have a much higher dollar value attached to them, purely because the client has much more money available and is willing to spend it.

Until my brides are willing to pay me $1000 per minute of the final product, then I think my statement is fair. It's a service aimed at the masses, not at big industries - it is aimed at the average person - the lowest common denominator.

Sure, every now and then somebody will land a job shooting a Royal Wedding. But for every Royal Wedding there are 15 Beyonce music videos, 50 Hollywood blockbusters and 500 Coca-Cola Commercials.
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Old April 18th, 2011, 11:33 PM   #17
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Re: RED for wedding video production

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I wonder what it'd cost for a properly outfitted RED for shooting weddings? I'm thinking you could easily show up to a gig with over $100,000 worth of gear. Get a little distracted and next thing you know your camera has grown legs.


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If the camera was going to be in the 100k range I wouldn't even be thinking about it... right now.. purely guessing that is this is how much I think it will cost:

The Epic-M cost right now 58k and I have no intention on purchasing that... the Epic-X will be the same camera but made in a factory and therefore will be cheaper.. I assume in the 30's with out all the extras... I would like the Epic-S so I assume in the 20's for the body, and maybe 5k or so in enough media to last me a while and still be able to do hdrx if I feel the need, or shoot a higher frame rate for part of the day.

Then, I hope to get the canon mount and be able to use all my L series lenses with autofocus. Additionally, I would then hope to get a scarlet fixed and hang on to my 5d as a full wedding kit... totaling (not including lenses) no more than 30k new investment, with the option to shoot other things as well as I do corporate work and work for other firms as well.

So I'm thinking the numbers work out for me, and creatively, I think it adds a lot to work with when you're in post that the DSLR's do not offer.
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Old April 19th, 2011, 12:24 AM   #18
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Re: RED for wedding video production

Aside from shooting 4K video there are other unique features of the RED that appeal including shooting R3D RAW, enormous dynamic range (even more so with HDRx) & recording at high frame rates (up to 120fps).
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Old April 19th, 2011, 01:07 AM   #19
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Re: RED for wedding video production

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Originally Posted by Louis Maddalena View Post
totaling (not including lenses) no more than 30k new investment, with the option to shoot other things as well as I do corporate work and work for other firms as well.
I don't really know if you'd be able to pull the whole kit together for 30k. Have you seen the pricing on the accessories? Batteries, monitors, media?
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Old April 19th, 2011, 02:49 AM   #20
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Re: RED for wedding video production

I wouldn't be as concerned if the camera were an over kill or not but whether the work flow required would be worth it. The RED shoots some incredible video but the real plus for it is the fact that is shoots raw and therefore can be heavily graded in post. If that's something that you can live with and you can afford it, then go for it. I don't think you will ever be able to justify it by thinking that it will pay for it because you shooting someones wedding with a RED and they will therefore be willing to pay more. But I could be wrong.
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Old April 19th, 2011, 03:34 AM   #21
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Re: RED for wedding video production

Is a RED a "run and gun" camera? Don't have any experience with it but from what I've seen it looks like a camera that needs more set-up time compared to a eng type of camera and at weddings you often need to get it right in a blink of an eye.
I would never think of taking such expensive equipment to a wedding to have drunken uncle bob spill beer over it :)
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Old April 19th, 2011, 11:23 AM   #22
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Re: RED for wedding video production

Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis Maddalena View Post
If the camera was going to be in the 100k range I wouldn't even be thinking about it... right now.. purely guessing that is this is how much I think it will cost:

The Epic-M cost right now 58k and I have no intention on purchasing that... the Epic-X will be the same camera but made in a factory and therefore will be cheaper.. I assume in the 30's with out all the extras... I would like the Epic-S so I assume in the 20's for the body, and maybe 5k or so in enough media to last me a while and still be able to do hdrx if I feel the need, or shoot a higher frame rate for part of the day.

Then, I hope to get the canon mount and be able to use all my L series lenses with autofocus. Additionally, I would then hope to get a scarlet fixed and hang on to my 5d as a full wedding kit... totaling (not including lenses) no more than 30k new investment, with the option to shoot other things as well as I do corporate work and work for other firms as well.

So I'm thinking the numbers work out for me, and creatively, I think it adds a lot to work with when you're in post that the DSLR's do not offer.
Ah, missed that... Epic-S not Epic-M. That's great you have lenses already and I read somewhere that the RED camera's Canon adapter makes full use of all the electrical controls of the lenses. I found where Steve Kalle posted a list of gear with prices for what would be a minimum to get started. Says $12,000 for the body and then about another $13,000 in accessories.... So nowhere near the $100,000 I was guessing. Apparently the Epic-S was going into production in May, and then the Japan earthquake caused another setback.

Referenced link:
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...s-f3-cost.html

I did a wedding in Feb. and left my main camera plus wireless receiver and two portable sound recorders in the main room after the ceremony. I went to catch some other footage on a pre-positioned camera and when I returned I came up behind three guests who were discussing what they could steal from the place and one said, "that video equipment looks pretty nice." Would hate to have to shoot someone at a wedding, could put a damper on the festivities :)

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Old April 19th, 2011, 11:29 AM   #23
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Re: RED for wedding video production

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Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
Is a RED a "run and gun" camera?
It is designed for, and primarily optimized for digital cinematography. That said, you can use it for whatever you want, just like any other camera.
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Old April 19th, 2011, 12:00 PM   #24
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Re: RED for wedding video production

There's no reason why you couldn't use a RED with suitable lenses.

However, bear in mind that the RED One is very power hungry and it's best have a few batteries ready to keep you going through the day. plus the 1 minute plus reboot time needs to be factored in and planned for during the event.

The new Epics should be easier, although you'll need to wait for the final production versions to come out.
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Old April 19th, 2011, 12:07 PM   #25
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Re: RED for wedding video production

People seem to be mixing up the original RED and the new Epic and Scarlets. The new ones are much smaller, though as Chris mentions, the Epic is designed for cinematography.

The Scarlet 8X fixed would be pretty much ideal for doc, run and gun work and would be perfect at a wedding as far as I can tell, and is supposed to cost about the same as an EX1. We'll have to wait a bit more to see, though.

Check here to see a working Scarlet 8X in action. Very small and easy to use:


I would never bring the original Red to a wedding unless it was a giant very high end job with a crew! Not that I have the option. I could only dream of owning one...
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Old April 19th, 2011, 12:29 PM   #26
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Re: RED for wedding video production

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Originally Posted by Chris Hurd View Post
It is designed for, and primarily optimized for digital cinematography. That said, you can use it for whatever you want, just like any other camera.
In the video that is shown above of the scarlett, you can see he is making iris and iso adjustments on the touchscreen lcd, that is not "run and gun" for me. It's like a dslr; a lot of hassle to get right if you need to be quick. That's why I was asking, with a eng camera you can adjust iris and other important settings directly on the camera without taking your eye from the viewfinder, a red body looks completely different in layout of the controlls to make the necessary adjustments, if you are doing a controlled shoot, then you have all the time but an uncontrolled shoot (like a wedding) where you need to make adjustments in realtime sometimes I just wonder how a Red functions then and when looking at that red scarlet it looks to me that its allmost like a dslr but perhaps I"m wrong.
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Old April 19th, 2011, 12:29 PM   #27
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Re: RED for wedding video production

It really depends on when you want to go out and buy this camera. If you want to buy now the only choice is the RED One, later in the year the Epic (at least the X) and the 2/3" Scarlet fixed should be available.

The Scarlet does look like a neat documentary camera. There appears to be a number of options on how you control the lens functions on the fixed.Scarlet and I suspect you'll need to play with one to see how best to operate it.

The interchangeable lens Scarlet seems to be taking longer (plus rumours of it not coming out), you can fit a V/F instead of a LCD screen and if fitted with traditional lenses you could make those adjustments directly on the lens.

I wouldn't start making too many hard plans until these cameras are actaully available and you know the delivery times. I expect there'll be a waiting time before delivery.
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Old April 19th, 2011, 12:52 PM   #28
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Re: RED for wedding video production

To add to your comments, I wonder if it has an ND filter? Or image stabilizer? What about power consumption? Lastly, I wanted to see them demo the unit with a transition from dark room to bright sunlight. Can you adjust the white balance quickly, or on the fly? Or apply ND filter? Is the image on the exterior monitor even visible in sunlight?? If not, would you have to whip out a hood to cover it while shooting? From what I've seen so far, it looks like a rough camera to wrestle with for run and gun.
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Old April 19th, 2011, 01:28 PM   #29
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Re: RED for wedding video production

The Epic doesn't have built in ND, it's a digital cinema camera, I understand that the Scarlet fixed does.
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Old April 20th, 2011, 12:44 PM   #30
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Re: RED for wedding video production

Shooting a wedding with RED is exactly like buying a Lamborghini, then driving it in rush-hour traffic.
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