Dim Weddings
 

I run into a lot of dim weddings and receptions. Just wondering.what u guys do in these situations? I use a Sony fx7 and Sony fx1 so I don't have real good low light cameras.

Re: Dim Weddings
 

Hey Tyson

The answer is in the post below you...I struggled with low light...especially the first dance where they dim the lights right down so for me an on-cam light is an essential!!! It makes a huge difference to your footage ..yeah, people will comment on a bright light a bit but for me it's a lot more convenient than trying to set up reception lights that might spoil the mood if they are constantly on!!

For speeches I do set up a 3' x 2' single softbox with 4 x 50w CFL lights inside and it gives a good result too.

Chris

Re: Dim Weddings
 

At my wedding ceremonies lights are rarely, if ever permitted. The best solution is a good low light camera. For you a move up to the FX1000 would be decent.

For a second camera, the Panny GH1 with a 20mm f/1.7 lens would be an outstanding addition as a rear camera, total cost under $1K with batteries and card.

For reception lighting go to www.lacoloronline.com and check out his products for some ideas.

Re: Dim Weddings
 

Hi Jeff

I think I was referring mainly to receptions on my side. We also have a "no lights" policy in all Churches and also no camera flash either!!! For receptions, if you want to shoot without lights then you need a very nice wedding co-ordinator who is prepared to turn up the house lights for speeches and the bouquet toss but virtually none are prepared to let the B&G do their first dance in full lighting!!

My on cam lights certainly save me at receptions where even a GH1 would struggle!!!

Chris

Re: Dim Weddings
 

Right Chris, I clarified my post, I was thinking of ceremonies only, but OP did mention receptions also.

At reception his FX7 and FX1 will work fine with a one or two LEDs for sure. I now run pne LED on a light stand as well and it makes a huge difference. I put it up about 8 feet high and it is so much better than on-camera lighting, though I use those also of course.

Re: Dim Weddings
 

If you want to stick to videocameras,the new Canons, XF100, XA10, G10, HF-M4X and 4XX series will give you at least 2 stops more light.
However if you want realy good low light performance,get a couple Canon DSLRs or Panasonic GH2s and pair them with fast lenses (2.8 and lower). Do not get the older GH1, it is a joke in low light, hardly any better than the FX1

Re: Dim Weddings
 

I own and have used three GH1s and one GH2. If you put a 20mm f/1.7 lens on the GH1, it is excellent in low light. I've used this combination at three weddings. The lens is more important than the camera. Everything starts with the lens.

Re: Dim Weddings
 

Thanks guys! I have been thinking about an on camera light but I wasn't sure where to start. Any suggestions? I seen some on ebay that are LED and they run off Sony batteries. Are these any good?

Re: Dim Weddings
 

Tyson, why don't you try the link I put above for you for lights?

Re: Dim Weddings
 

Hi Tyson -
I've tried some of the cheap eBay lights, and some of them aren't too bad for the $$, if you're on a budget!


I've tried the fixed output smaller LED count lights, and they work, but can tend to blind your subjects without dimming or diffusion, but you get what you pay for at around $30-40... enough light to work with!


I recently picked up the CN-126, lots of sources for this model, and can be had at just under $40 shipped, really good bang/$ ratio. It comes with 3 diffusers in a sleeve case (clear/orange/purple-ish), and a switch/potentiometer allowing you to continuously vary the output from near zero to really bright. Decent throw and coverage for an LED. I'm using Sony FH/FV series batteries, same as my CX550/500, seem to last well, the pins are there for the bigger F and FM series batteries from what I can tell, and you can use AA batteries too. Downsides, the thing is sorta big and clunky, hotshoe foot looks sorta fragile, and I wouldn't want to drop the thing! There's a very slight buzz/whine at some light levels, but it's not going to be noticeable in normal background noise.

There's a CN-160 (MORE LED's!) for about $10 more, and a YN-160 that has barn doors and a handle for handheld use - that one is about $65, will have a sample soon.

Some of the lights use a push button "step" bright/dim system, others use continuous, not sure if one is better than the other.

So far I haven't found a "perfect" light, but for the $$, the CN126 seems pretty good....

I wish for a smaller light that would run off the Sony batteries, there's one that I just noticed the other night using the F series batteries, and includes a copy battery and charger (try searching 5009 LED, or there's a couple mis-listed right now as "5006").

Re: Dim Weddings
 

Dave, I just checked out the ebay lights, I must admit they look good for the $$$.

Re: Dim Weddings
 

Hi Dave and Jeff

I use the CN 160 and it makes a big difference...it's great to even see the camera throw out zebras on the bride's dress now and again and the camera is running with an aperture of at least F2.8 so I'm not using any gain either!!!

The 160 only has one issue!!! The cold shoe mount is pathetic!! It wobbles all over the place so I bought a simple mini-ball head with a cold shoe on it and opened up the light and bolted the 1/4" screw into the light housing with a 1/4" nut. Huge difference!!! It's as stable as anything!!!

You can also vary intensity with the "+" and "-" buttons...nice to know also if you want LOT'S of light just hold the "+" in and it will zoom right up to max in a few seconds.

Definately worth the price!!!

Chris

Re: Dim Weddings
 

I have three 'redhead' lights on stands that I bought off ebay and as most churches here have white ceilings I bounce the light off the ceiling...makes a huge difference... There are some priests and ministers that object to a strong light so I try and have the on board camera light turned on but wound back so as its not to strong. I usually bring it up with the B/G if I know the church is dimly lit when I meet with them so they can raise it with the minister.

Re: Dim Weddings
 

I've been in the wedding business for 19 years and I haven't used lights at the church in the past 18 of them.

Re: Dim Weddings
 

Hi Ray

You are lucky!! I have never used lighting in Churches as most here forbid them...Like Michael I don't use lighting purely out of respect.

We are mainly talking about reception lighting here rather than ceremony lighting where dimmed lights in the venue do become an issue and offer a lot less light than any Church.

Most of the older Churches in the West have lighting if the Church is dim so it just takes a kind word for the priest to turn on the lights and that's more than enough for most cameras

Chris

Re: Dim Weddings
 

I have been shooting weddings since 1982, I have never thought of low light as an issue, or ever even considered using lights in a church, not that it would be allowed. Bear in mind, back then 30 lux was considered state of the art. Receptions are never a problem, simply, use lights. I personally use 2 Rotolights, excellent, AA battery powered lights, that are more than adequate for any wedding situation.

Re: Dim Weddings
 

Lighting a ceremony seems like a pretty bad idea - if it were even allowed... the physics of light fall off alone make it a difficult proposition - "good" small lights will only throw maybe 20 feet, even cranked up, so better to try to get by with "house" lighting.

Receptions are where a bit of "fill" comes in handy - that's why I immediately liked the variable output feature on the CN 126 - very controllable "fill" light level without blowing away the subjects - you don't want to light things up like a 5Kw floodlight, just give the camera enough help to be able to shoot with minimal grain/gain and still get a usable shot. It doesn't really take much, and shouldn't hurt anyone's eyes, IMO!

I'd love to have something like the smaller 36-64 LED lights, option to use the small Sony FH/FV battery, and variable output - but all the small lights are "one blinding output fits all"! In that respect, the CN 126 is about as small as you can get and still have the dimmable feature... but I'm sure there will be new lights coming out (that 5009 seems to be a "new" 120 LED design, wish it would take FV battery!)

Re: Dim Weddings
 

As I mentioned, I had a couple YN 160 lights inbound... got 'em, and have had a chance to do a quick bit of playing with them.

YN is Yongnuo, apparently different brand/company from the CN lights, although they sure look similar! The YN 160 has both the hotshoe attachment (again kinda flimsy and not as stable as one would like), a handle you can put onto the light to use it handheld (goes where the shoe adapter does, so it's one or the other), has 4 filter/diffusers (clear, red/purplish, orange and blue), an adapter for using Panny batteries, and a nice velveteen bag to hold it all! For the roughly $15 difference, not a bad deal.

This light has "barn doors", which do seem to allow some light control, although I noticed "lines" from the LED columns/rows when using them, but they do nicely protect the light when closed. It's not much bigger than the CN 126, and uses a 16 step push button control (defaults when turned on to "halfway" setting). First two low settings are probably enough to help most cameras acquire a usable image if you're doing close ups, and it's bloody bright when "full on", noticeably more kick than the 126. Plenty of levels in between, so I guess the push button arrangement is adequate as opposed to the continuous potentiometer. Has a battery level meter, that only works when the light is on (CN126 will test battery level, even when off). Again, there's a slight hum/buzz, but not likely noticeable in ambient sound situations.

Build quality is as you might expect with something in this price range, one light has an "odd" LED, but doesn't seem to affect the light, and the other had a problem with the "+" level switch, easy enough to fix with a screwdriver and a soldering iron to correctly position the internal switch, which was off just enough to cause the button to jam...

My overall feeling is any of these lights would be a worthwhile addition to a kit where you might need to add some light, and don't want to blow your budget. At least for me AWB seemed capable of handling getting the image to look pretty good, although you'd probably want to play with the diffusers under some circumstances.

I'm sure LED lights will only improve, but these ain't bad for the $. Still wish there was a SMALL (30-70LEDs)light that would run from the FH/FV battery and had a dimmer, but all the smaller ones seem to be one output and run from internal or AA batteries...

Re: Dim Weddings
 

Hey guys what do you think about this light?126 LED Video Light Sony DSLR a55 a33 a580 a560 a390 - eBay (item 130509773399 end time May-16-11 15:14:22 PDT)

Re: Dim Weddings
 

Hi Chris:

Care to share a pic or two of your fix? I´m curios what kind of ballhead you used.

Thanks in advance

Alex

Re: Dim Weddings
 

Hi Alex

I just grabbed the one attached off eBay. The bottom obviously goes onto the cold shoe of the camera and I just pulled my light apart (on the CN-160) you take off the front cover and work inwards. Unfortunately you need to take off the cover (that the doors attach to), then the LED array, then BOTH the control PCB's to get into the back of the cabinet....I just removed the plastic fitted, drilled a 1/4" hole and added an extra 1/4" nut and you have a really sturdy mount for the light.

Chris

Re: Dim Weddings
 

Hi Tyson

I have both the 126 and the 160 and the 160 has a lot more "oomph" as Dave says, plus the barn doors are useful too....I would suggest the 160 unless your budget is really tight....however, if you need the light to sit quite high on the camera then add the little ball head as I have otherwise the plastic mount both lights tend to wobble a bit!!!

I do use my 160 in preference to the 126 and just keep the 126 as a spare!! The 6 x AA rechargeable batteries are also a pain to use in either light!!! I only use a CGR Panasonic battery in my lights...they are very cheap on eBay if you buy the generic 2600mah ones. (I think less than $10 INCLUDING a charger

Chris

Re: Dim Weddings
 

Hey Chris,

Can you use the Sony Camera batteries in them?

Re: Dim Weddings
 

Hi Tyson

Yep!! They however only can use the Panasonic CGR batteries or the Sony NP batteries....that's what the adapter tray is made for.... Even if your cam has different batteries you can pick up the generic batteries and chargers for just pennies on eBay....My old cams used to use the same batteries as the light but after upgrading they changed so I just got some generics off Ebay....it's worth getting two batteries so you always have a spare for the light...so far at weddings the 2600mah CGR battery has lasted the entire reception so they last well!!

Chris

Re: Dim Weddings
 

Thanks Chris. To stay on topic, I too have a couple 120s wich I use on-camera and two 160s wich I use on lightstands where no one can knock them off.

Cheap equipment, wonderful solution.

Happy camper.

Cheers!

Re: Dim Weddings
 

Tyson -
That's the CN 126 you pictured - search "CN 126" and you'll find it $10 cheaper from US sellers. The YN 160 is harder to find from US suppliers at the lower end of it's price range ($65).

These both can use pretty much ANY current Sony battery in their built in tray from what I can tell... I'm using the NP- FH/NP-FV series, and I presume even the older FP would work. I believe they can also take the NP-FM series as well as the NP-F full size batteries that your FX7 full size camera uses... they both claim to be able to use 5 different battery types, one Panny, AA's, and at least 3 Sony sizes.

FWIW, I played with the filter/diffusers included with the 160, got some interesting results - blue would be cool for a simulated "night time" look!

Re: Dim Weddings
 

Hi Tyson, It's true you don't have good low-light cameras. One of my cameras is a Sony 350 that cost around $19k (US). Even that camera isn't the greatest in low-light believe it or not. So one option you have, that's been mentioned already, is to bring lighting into your shoot. There are pros and cons to using on-camera and off-camera lighting. That's already been addressed. But there is another option. Here's a scenario to explain it. Another camera I have that I'll use sometimes is a Sony EX-1. In low-light this camera isn't great. If you gain-up in many cases you can achieve accurate exposure but now you have a ton of noise / grain. That's really the problem with low-light cameras. Most cameras allow you to gain-up but the resulting image is usually terrible unless you use software to clean it up. Here's a game-changer for you. go to neatvideo dot com and check out their software that costs $100 dollars. In my twenty years of shooting and editing weddings this is the greatest piece of software I've ever found. Simply put, it will allow you to remove the noise caused by using gain on your camera. It's amazing. FYI - I do not work for the company but I do use the software. It will add an extra step into your workflow and it will have to render but imagine going into a shoot and not having to worry about the lighting nearly as much as you do now. I hope this helps. Cheers.

Re: Dim Weddings
 

Robert. I dont understand your statement about the EX-1, at its price point, there is nothing to beat it in low light situations. We have some pretty dark churches in the UK, most dating back many hundreds of years, as I said in my earlier post, in 29 years of wedding videography, I have never had a problem recording in a church, I think there is a lot of paranoia regagarding "low light performance" most of todays. modern cameras perform more than adequately. My son is getting married in our local church on Saturday, it is known to be one of the darkest churches in the Southwest, no problem at all for the EX-1. With the right settings I can take it up to 9db without any noticable noise.

Re: Dim Weddings
 

The EX1 is excellent in low light, this is well known among wedding videographers.

Re: Dim Weddings
 

For about the last 10 years (since we first started filming weddings) we have always had a -no external lighting- clause in our contract. We also explain clearly (or so we believe) to the bride and groom, and even their families that low-light generally makes for sub optimal video footage at the reception. Also, we had been using GL1's and an XL1S and Sony VX2000 for the past 10 years. We used gain adjustments and shutter speed adjustments to get around the low light as best practical.

Well, when I ponied up earlier this year and got my NX5U, I got one of the 20W Sony brand video lights to mount on the camera, and WOW what a tremduous difference that really made during my last reception shoot.

Still got the clause in there about no external lighting, just so they don't expect us to come in and set up a bunch of lights on stands etc... but for run and gun reception shooting, I'm totally pleased with that singled 20W light.

I was going to pick up another one, but just checked yesterday and the price has gone up about $20. They were $78 and are now like $98 at BH.

Re: Dim Weddings
 

I find it really doesn't take MUCH to give the camera something to work with... you can't use a noise filter on a video of a black cat in a dark room... nothing there to "salvage". You've got to at least get enough light on your subject to gets some usable 1's and 0's!

My main challenge has been that as soon as you use a light, you run a huge risk of blinding the "talent" - I'm very much looking forward to having DIMMABLE LED's, so I can give just the amount of "fill" needed to get to a usable image, without the blinding...

I've always used diffusion (used those Sonys, and some small LEDS), but sometimes in a dark room, you're still a bit TOO bright. Dimmable makes the most sense to solve the problem, just wish there was a SMALL LED light that was also dimmable and would use the smaller Sony batteries. These bigger arrays are great, but it's overkill for many purposes!

Re: Dim Weddings
 

I bought two of these: HDV-Z96 LED Photo/Video Light Kit | L.A. Color Online a while back. They work pretty good. I dug out some old Sony batteries and they worked great. The lights also work with AAs.