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Old August 18th, 2005, 12:56 PM   #1
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Hmm... Photographers

I'm still relatively new here, so maybe I've missed a lot of "bad photographer" threads.

I just got off the phone with the photographer for the next wedding I'm doing. Just as a courtesy, I called to ask if he would mind my shooting during the photo session (since he's already taking a four hour chunk of the B&G's time, I'd rather not take more than I need.)

He immediately copped the "I'm the artist here" attitude. He said he would allow me to videotape, as long as a crowd of people with video cameras doesn't form, because - in his words - "monkey see, monkey do." Did he just call me a monkey?

Then he said his wife/assistant will be up near the altar during the ceremony, and she DOES NOT want to be on video. So I am, under no circumstances, to capture her image on video. I'm not going to worry too much about that...
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Old August 18th, 2005, 01:12 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Davis
I'm still relatively new here, so maybe I've missed a lot of "bad photographer" threads.

I just got off the phone with the photographer for the next wedding I'm doing. Just as a courtesy, I called to ask if he would mind my shooting during the photo session (since he's already taking a four hour chunk of the B&G's time, I'd rather not take more than I need.)

He immediately copped the "I'm the artist here" attitude. He said he would allow me to videotape, as long as a crowd of people with video cameras doesn't form, because - in his words - "monkey see, monkey do." Did he just call me a monkey?

Then he said his wife/assistant will be up near the altar during the ceremony, and she DOES NOT want to be on video. So I am, under no circumstances, to capture her image on video. I'm not going to worry too much about that...

Maybe you didn't convey yourself as a paid professional. Shooting the post-ceremony activities isn't something you are required to ask. You are both paid professionals and if the client want's the post ceremony in their video they are more than entitled to have it.
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Old August 18th, 2005, 01:26 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Davis
Then he said his wife/assistant will be up near the altar during the ceremony, and she DOES NOT want to be on video. So I am, under no circumstances, to capture her image on video. I'm not going to worry too much about that...
Maybe a beard and glasses added to her image, in editing, to make it unrecognizable would be best! I'm kidding, I think, but people like that really irritate me.

Perhaps the subject should be gently discussed with the B&G. Tell them there may be some parts of the ceremony will not be captured because of this. It's their wedding, not the photographers.

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Last edited by Mike Teutsch; August 18th, 2005 at 02:30 PM. Reason: spelling correction
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Old August 18th, 2005, 02:15 PM   #4
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Your task is to capture the wedding. The day belongs to the B&G - period! If missy photographer gets her smozzle in the frame - tough!

This is one subject that really gets me going. On the last wedding I did, I was asked by the B&G to provide witha few shots from my footage since their 'highly paid' photographer failed to capture certain moments - pah! And he also had an attitude to boot but when I asked for the B&G to pose a few shots AFTER he had his turn, and was walking back to his car, the next minute I see 'flash' flash' flash' - I prompty turned to him and said "I didn't mess with your session, please don't mess with mine since your flashes are ruining MY turn at shooting". He started to protest and the groom just pointed his finger in the direction of the parking lot and he walked away rather sheepishly. Needless to say, I had to reshoot the pose I was busy with - if looks could kill, I'm sure the groom would be in court for murder the way he stared the photographer down.

Oh heck - another moan from my side -lol.

Concentrate on getting what you have to. It is always good to have a photographer who is on your side and not working against you - but when THEY start calling the ball, then I draw the line. I like working with professionals who convey themselves proffessionally!

Be proffessional and capture what you are paid to do, if someone else gets framed and they don't want to be, they shouldn't be at the wedding in the first place.

Cheers
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Old August 18th, 2005, 03:11 PM   #5
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Photographers....hmmm, so true...

I had a poor experience with a photographer in St. Louis, MO recently. It was my first wedding video and the photographer wasn't too concerned about how much he was in the way of video shots. Unfortunately, the area was very confined, (Malmaison Gardens) so it was difficult at times, however, in several situation, the photographer (after taking his shots) walked up to the B & G (during cake cutting) making cute comments and figuring prominently off to the side of the video.

He was very polite, but VERY unprofessional.
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Old August 18th, 2005, 03:55 PM   #6
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All of the photographers I've worked with I've loved with one exception. And as the video shows, it only looked bad on the photographer. Basically she treated them like dolls constantly posing them. There was never a time when she wasn't by their side, pulling their arm, adjusting their positions or telling them exactly what she wanted them to do to get the shot. She even stood up at the head table behind them while they ate so she could situate them while they ate for good pics. I couldn't believe it. I also couldn't believe her "props." She brought one of those giant fake rings, about 8" x 8" so the groom could do a goofy fake ring exchange with it during pics. Anyways, no matter what angle I took the photographers where in it and I finally realized that I could only do my best and it only made her look like the unprofessional one. And as far as the "no filming while I'm taking pictures..." do they think they own the space? I've never had this happen but what's stopping you from doing it? Unless the b&g ask you to honor that request, I say you have the right to any footage you want.
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Old August 18th, 2005, 06:16 PM   #7
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First of all, note that you are not obligated to ask the photographer for permission to videotape anything which happens in public at a wedding, including the formal posing session. For the sake of getting along with them it makes sense to stay out of their way during the formals, but they can't force you to stop videotaping. If they make a fuss it's up to you how you want to respond, but you have a job to do just like them and they have no real authority over your actions (even if they have some clause to that effect in their contract with the b&g).

In regards to being asked by the photographer not to capture them on video, that's a meaningless request if they plan to be standing somewhere where they will most likely be in view of a video camera. This really ought to be the other way around: they should be asking us where they can stand if they don't want to be too visible in the video.

It's really too bad that there are such conflicts between photographers and videographers. Hopefully in the long run this will sort itself out as a matter of professional courtesy and respect for the needs of the client; in the meantime don't let any photographer push you around. If anything we should be the ones giving them directions, since it's harder for us to shoot around them than vice-versa.
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Old August 18th, 2005, 09:12 PM   #8
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Jeremy you crack me up mate!
no shit, ive had this attitude afew times, simply for the fact that our prominant prescence pretty much superceeded his mangy efforts.

Much like your situation, ive had moments where im setting up shots with the couple once the photographer has had his turn, and EXACTLY liek your situation, hes on his way back to the car, then notices me setting up a shot he hadnt considered, then snap snap snap..
Now wahts worse than this, was teh fact that before this, he turns around to me and says "this is my turn, you can film everything else, but this is MY time... " and im like whatever you reckon mate..

I dont have time for morons like this.. ive only had a couple of instances out of the 150 odd weddings ive shot, where the photgrapher was a dunce..Most of the time though, things are VERY good.. were bouncing ideas off each other and i usually end up gettin alot of referal work from these same photographers.

Also i find that "combo" companies (companies which do photo and video) usually feel threatened by a company such as ours, simply for the fact that we not only nailed the video job from them, but for the fact that by the time the wedding date comes, i know more about the couple than they do ( i'll sit with a couple for hours on end <my last client we ended up chatting till 2am... thats how carried away we got) , so on the day, im setting up particular, specific shots with the couple which were previously agreed upon that the photographer knows nothing about.
I also take stills and this grates on the photographers nerves, but you know what, my response to everything is
"You do your job, let me do mine" Were both professionals and we both know what needs to be done. I wont interrupt you and i will would appreciate the same courtesy. "

oh and as for the "dont film my wife....
stuff that.. lol if you have a contract, you should include a clause like this...

Section 1
Permission
The Company relies wholly on the Client to confirm that permission to Film Video and Record Sound in Digital Format is granted in all requested areas.
The Company will assume that said permission is granted and agreed upon, at the time of booking the event.
Permission’s include, but are not limited to, Churches/Synagogues and other places of Worship, Guests, Staff, Clients, Office Building’s etc.
This permission also includes, but is not limited to, the surrounding visual locations and environmental sounds, such as music played by a DJ, floorshow or band etc.
The Company disavows any liability for recording and/or using these environmental influences. This clause also serves as a Public Release.

As for photographers, theyre all different, and generalisations shouldnt be made considering that most of the good ones, can potentially get you more business.
Find afew guys that you work well with, and when speaking to a potential client ask them who the photographer is. Sometimes, they dont even have that decided, so its a good opprtunity to send them to the photographers who you work well with.
Ive done this numerous times, and it really does work well for the client, for you and your photographer friend. In the end, you create a large network that your comfortable with.

As for the wankers, if they think theyre gonna be abe to push me or my staff around, theyve got another thing coming to them.
Ive had some morons deliberatly get their "assistants" to walk in front of a shot, or a camera, ive had another one start coughing near tripodded camera. Little did he relaise that the groom was wearing a Lav. And the doozy was when i busted a guy playing with a camera on an unmanned tripod.
i had everythgn set up, when i got back to it, and i saw him "eyeing" the camera he was moving away from it.. and all the settings and WB were all stuffed up.

Its a mutual respect thing, and if a photographer disrespects my staff, me, or my clients, i'll be a prick and make him look like a dickhead in front of everyone... its a very simple equation
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Old August 18th, 2005, 09:31 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Rochefort
Your task is to capture the wedding. The day belongs to the B&G - period! If missy photographer gets her smozzle in the frame - tough!

Be proffessional and capture what you are paid to do, if someone else gets framed and they don't want to be, they shouldn't be at the wedding in the first place.

Cheers
What he said...
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Old August 19th, 2005, 01:39 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Davis
I'm still relatively new here, so maybe I've missed a lot of "bad photographer" threads.

I just got off the phone with the photographer for the next wedding I'm doing. Just as a courtesy, I called to ask if he would mind my shooting during the photo session (since he's already taking a four hour chunk of the B&G's time, I'd rather not take more than I need.)
Chris,
This is a very tough one and by the amount of responses you received you can see we have all had issues with it. It was VERY cool of you to call them. All I can tell you is what I do. I basically tell the photographers that their shots are important to me. Let them know that I'm working to make sure that everyone’s work is good. After that I pretty much do what I need to do. We make sure that we are extremely respectful to the photographers, however, if they have enough nerve to stand up on the alter (VERY VERY TACKY) they will get their image on film. Smile and treat them like royalty. You have to realize that most photographers have had a horrible experience with a videographer and are very cautious. Just let them know that the two of you are in it together and everything will go smooth. As it was said before it's all about the bride and the groom, so diffuse the situation as much as possible so each of you can get the shot needed.

The biggest issue I have is Photogs standing in my shot during a toast. Basically they could choose 179 other degrees other than the one that I am on but they seem to gravitate towards the one I have chosen. What I tell them before is, "I'm going be on a tripod over there" (point to it) Please make sure that you don't stand in my shot. But alas, it never helps.

Have fun with it, you will soon start to win over photographers in the area and they will refer you to others.

Jonathan
www.lumierebridal.com
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Old August 19th, 2005, 01:32 PM   #11
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When I first started I also thought I should make courtesy calls to the photogs. But, I won't do that now since I don't think they really care.

However, I introduce myself and assistant on wedding day and in a friendly manner remind them that they can ask me to move if I'm in their shot. Never, have they reciprocated but most have been mindful and try to stay out of the video.

I absolutely want to tape some of the formals and you can do that without getting in their way.
Bob
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Old August 19th, 2005, 11:24 PM   #12
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As I have said before, most photographers are great to work with. There are always a few that I hav run into however that have been quite difficult. Luckily, it is always easy to convey my past experiences to potenial clients and avoid ever working with such unprofessional photographers again.

As far as for not filming the photographer, well thats your call. In my opinion, if they are at the wedding, they are part of the wedding and fair game for video. I usually film a bit of the photgrapher "creating art" for use in the video because I think it is an important part of the day. Often times, I also find myself the subject of quite a few stills too. I actually think its cool to be a part of a B&G's photo album.
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Old August 20th, 2005, 01:48 AM   #13
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-Another long rant by Josh Hibbard, On a topic that he has been stewing over for some time.

Every time I start a wedding I politely introduce myself to the photographers, usually with varying degrees of cold-fish responses. I used to be very obliging but I found the nicer I tried to be the more I got walked on. Be firm and do your job, the more you talk the more opportunities you give them to try and lord something over you.

For example, If you walk up to them or call them in advance and Ask Permission for whatever you need to do your job the photographer is now in both a position to Grant Permission or Deny Permission AND Set Terms and Conditions, like you experienced. As you have just verified to the photographer that his job is primary, He owns the brides time, You have to ask him for permission for what you can and can not shoot, and you are there to pick up scraps.

Or you could show up and do your job, putting the photographer in the position to have to approach you to deny you permission (possibly much less likely) and any stipulations would be phrased in the form of a “could you please X” or a “I would appreciate it if X” “It would help me if you X” (where X stands for whatever ridiculous demand that stops you from doing your job) To which you are now in the position to say “No can do.”

Introduce yourself in a firm manner, tell them your here to do your job, and do your job. You don't work under the photographer, you don't have to ask the photographer for permission, you work for the bride and you already got permission from the bride when she hired you.

Sure I have met a lot of great photographers over my time, But don't play all your cards during the introductions, don't place yourself in a nice guy situation until you think that you have a good photographer on your hands, which you should be able to figure out by the number of times he tries to stop you from doing your job and calls himself an artist.

Once you know you have a good photographer on your hands it can be a beautiful thing, looking out for each other, talking shop, and getting some great shots, In once case one sent me digital stills to use in the final product, which the couple loved to see. But on the other hand there are photographers that are the definitions of petty and malicious, You try and hope that common courtesy's just slipped their mind, that they really didn't notice your huge cam ten feet in front of a bride that I just told him about 2 minutes ago... But sometimes it gets pretty hard to think that someone who does this week after week could have many accidents. My last wedding the bride actually appologized for the photographers behavior, I of course told her it wasn't necessary, but she was concerned for which shots her ruined. Don't think how you handle yourself and how the photographer acts will go unnoticed.

Play nice, play the victim, follow the brides wishes, make a great video.
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Old August 20th, 2005, 08:36 AM   #14
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there are bad apples on both sides of course. More often than not photographers and videographers get along and both are professional.

Often if you hear someone complain (especially if it goes to name calling and such) then that person is generally a bad one to deal with too. Having two bad apples try to deal with each other doesnt work too well.
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Old August 20th, 2005, 10:03 AM   #15
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Josh,
Your observations are right on target. For those insensitive "artists" who walk the B&G all the way down the middle of the aisle, I make sure that they will be permanent reminders to the B&G that it was their photographer's posterior in every frame of the recessional.
Bob
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