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Old May 11th, 2011, 08:28 AM   #1
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Reverberating Cathedrals!!

Hi Guys

Just wondering if others get situations where you are in a magnificent Church with 60' high ceilings and just about all shiny marble floors and either stained windows or plain glass. When the priest puts on his headset his voice reverberates thru the Church where the audio, although quite loud, is pretty hard to actually hear as the multiple reverberation as the sound bounces off everything smooth and shiny.

We have one cathedral here that must be similar to standing inside "echo cave" I always mic the groom and the lectern where they do the readings so that audio is reasonable (although the lectern mic still picks up a bit of echo if the priest is also talking thru his own PA at the same time.

Our Catholic priests seem to be extremely reluctant to wear a "second mic" or even slip a zoom into their cussock (I think it's called that???) What do others do when the priest won't wear a second mic?????

Placing a mic on the altar might work but our Catholic priests are often far away from the altar as well.

Anyone else have this situation....here it just one Church that has the issue!!!

Chris
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Old May 11th, 2011, 08:37 AM   #2
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Re: Reverberating Cathedrals!!

Mic on the priest is best, of course. If you approach them the right way, they'll do it. I explain it is for the benefit of the bride. Once they put it on they forget about it and they are fine.

I find that they usually do not like it, but the older ones in particular just act funny at first, but in the end they really don't care.
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Old May 11th, 2011, 09:39 AM   #3
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Re: Reverberating Cathedrals!!

Thanks Jeff

I'll have to brush up on my persuading skills!! Other Churches are never an issue..just the big one!!!

I thought that they might feel better with a DVR but then I still should have a lav on that....I'll do some heavy convincing on the next one there!! Luckily I don't include too much of the sermon anyway in the final edit.

Chris
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Old May 11th, 2011, 09:57 AM   #4
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Re: Reverberating Cathedrals!!

Yes, I have a big old cathedral here, actually a few of them, and there is no way around it, almost gotta have a mic on them.

Oh, I just thought of another solution I forgot!

This works sometimes. Put a mic/recordeing device next to a speaker...you know, like up in the balcony there will often be a speaker mounted, and put a recording device next to it, and you can get surprisingly good audio from the minister that way. I've also put a camera with a shotgun under a speaker on the main floor; and pointed a camera at it. That has worked also.
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Old May 11th, 2011, 10:31 AM   #5
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Re: Reverberating Cathedrals!!

Per Jeff's recommendation, try adding the lapel track to the one recorded next to the speaker. It amplifies the voice and the background gets less noticeable.
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Old May 11th, 2011, 01:28 PM   #6
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Re: Reverberating Cathedrals!!

Over here, many of the newer Catholic churches have immense, cathedral-like sanctuaries. Some of these churches look like arenas. All have the audio problems you mention. While I am a world class wheedler, if I say so myself, some priests will wear a second wireless and some will not. (Same problem with other officiants in about the same proportions, too). I tackle these situations with an array of things.

First, I try to hook into the the Church sound system using, if nothing else, an earphone-out jack to take a feed from the house sound. If I can get close enough, I take the feed to a camera to simplify audio sync. If not, I'll use a digital recorder and fiddle with sync in post. The house mix can be a little thin, and sometimes a bit weird when taken from the system, but it will not have much of the echo and hollowness you get in the room when the priest is speaking.

Of course, I rely on having a wireless omni-lavalier on the groom, which usually gets acceptable audio for the vows and blessings.

Third, if I can get close to a loudpeaker, I'll try setting a camera there with an external shotgun mike.

Fourth, as everybody alse has suggested, I try placing mics and recording devices at the lecterns and other fixed points.

Fifth, using mutliple audio tracks to reinforce sound, as Greg suggested, and sometimes slightly shifting them relative to each other in editing may help clarify and bring out the voice a bit better.

I should add that I make a documentary style wedding where some echo and etc. is part of the scene and an expected part of the video. I would find it much harder to do highlights and cinematic style videos in these cases because the expectations are so different.

And, oh yes, on terminology: "cassock" is what the priest wears; "cussock" is what we do when then audio is difficult.
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Old May 11th, 2011, 10:03 PM   #7
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Re: Reverberating Cathedrals!!

Thanks Guys

Good one Jay!!! Yeah, I do that as well!!

While we are on the subject, how does everyone handle more than two XLR feeds on a camera...I have my dual channel Azden Receiver with two body packs (one on the groom and one on the officiant) I also have a Rode Video Mic on the front camera and a third Azden single channel receiver that I use on the lectern....that's basically 4 XLR inputs... I normally leave the Dual Receiver plugged in so I'm getting the groom and officiant audio then, when the readings are done, I shoot that with my B-Cam which has the single channel receiver on it which leaves me without a handheld camera to do cutaways during the readings. It would be easier to have both receivers on the A-Cam and just switch receivers for the readings leaving my B-Cam free to shoot cutaways.

Anyone doing a 4 audio source input into 2 x XLR's ???

Chris
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Old May 11th, 2011, 10:25 PM   #8
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Re: Reverberating Cathedrals!!

Chris,
I have my own way of dealing with more channels than inputs and it may not be something you want to or can do.
First I use the AT1821 receiver, dual channel, run 2 lavs and have an AKG Hypercaroid on my main cam. So how do I plug 3 XLR cables into 2 XLR inputs? (BTW I uase an AT897 on my B camera and that is generally what I use to pull the church music from-even though it's a shotgun it does a nice job inside with the music since in most cases it's fairly loud...anyway back to point) The AT receiver has a few features the Azden doesn't one of which is the ability to mix the 2 lav inputs at the receiver so I could run lav 1 and lav 2 both to the same output channel. I rarely however do that. 99.9% of the time I run 1 lav on the pulput (lectern) where the readers read from and the officiant usually does the gospel and homily from. Nice crisp clean sound back to the camera. the other lav of course is on the grom and is plugged into channel 2 on my cam. I unplug therefore killing off the Hypercaroid on my A cam. First it picks up EVERYTHING in the church (except the altar talk of course) and since the Countryman mics on the groom and the lectern AND the 897 on my B cam and if I'm running a C cam the Sony NX1 mic is on that I'm pretty well covered.
Years ago when I used Azden 500U models I ran 2. One to my A cam one to my B cam and simply split the channels with the shotgun/hyper I used as well. When I ran a fullsized cam I had both receivers mounted on it, plugged them both in and by simply flipping a switch I could run the 2 lav or 1 and the hyper. Anyway that's what I do and frankly the ability to mix the AT receiver was one of the reasons I bought it. I have a client that I need 3 wireless mics for and even though I'm only 2 at any given time (long story but I need 3 plugged in) it really makes for a nice simple setup without having to worry about a mixer since in most cases that wouldn't work since most of it is run n' gun.
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Old May 12th, 2011, 06:07 AM   #9
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Re: Reverberating Cathedrals!!

Hi Don

Exactly what I need to do, so thanks!!! What I was thinking is a switch box mounted on the A-Cam's cold shoe and into that I have 4 inputs and 2 outputs...the inputs would be the groom and priest's lav mic via the two channel Azden, the lectern via the single channel Azden and then the Rode mic on the camera.

Normally I would have just the groom and priest live but when the readings happen I can switch say, the groom's lav off and the lectern mic on ...after the readings the groom gets switched in again. Also if I need ambient audio instead of the priest, I can also switch that channel over.

At the moment my A-Cam does the groom and priest and the lectern mic runs to my B-Cam and I use that to do the readings. It does mean that I need to get the cam from handheld and onto a monopod at least when the reading start. Also I can't shoot any guest footage during the readings but those can be "cheated" and done later in the ceremony.

Thanks again Don...maybe we need a huge mixing desk at big weddings and our own sound man???? I really do appreciate your practical solutions!!!

Chris
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