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-   -   Seasonal prices? (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/wedding-event-videography-techniques/496013-seasonal-prices.html)

John Wiley May 17th, 2011 04:15 AM

Seasonal prices?
 
I was booking some accomodation for a trip away today and it got me thinking...

Has anybody here ever considered having seasonal prices? So you charge a premium during peak season or offer a discount during quiter parts of the year?

I'd be interested to hear peoples opinions on this. Do you think it would just balance out over a year and not increase bookings/profit? Do you think it would be more likely to increase bookings in quiet periods or deter customers in busier times? Would couples percieve it as a discount or extortion? Do you think it might be more effective in location that already have distinct seasonal flactuations in other expenses eg housing/rent?

Looking forward to your comments...

George Kilroy May 17th, 2011 04:28 AM

Re: Seasonal prices?
 
It takes me just as long to produce in January as it does in June. If you promote different prices you establish in peoples minds that you are prepared to accept the lower price so they'll either try and get you for that even in the busy times, or feel un-trusting of your price.

Accommodation or travel have completely different business models where direct costs are committed to on the day and will be incurred anyway - staff, heating, lighting, fuel etc. We are more akin to tradesmen, if we don't have a job the tools stay in the bag.

However in a business where a walk-away may mean an unproductive day (and the ancillary days that attach) if might make good business sense to negotiate discounted prices during less busy periods. It all depends on your market and income needs.

Chris Harding May 17th, 2011 06:17 AM

Re: Seasonal prices?
 
Hi John

I welcome the break in June/July here as it's cold and wet and I can actually have a couple of Saturday's to socialise instead of working!!!

However what I do to boost income a little is offer a small discount for brides that book and pay for their "later in the year" wedding during June or July. All that really does is entire brides to book and pay over Winter which smooths out your cash flow a bit. I don't think that inflating Summer prices is really the answer ... I tried upping prices one Summer some years back and the bookings just dried up!! There seems to be a sweet spot for weddings and if you are under OR over that spot you are often not considered by the bride.

Seriously, take a break over Winter, time of equipment servicing and replacement and also time to give yourself a rest too!!!

Chris

Danny O'Neill May 17th, 2011 06:38 AM

Re: Seasonal prices?
 
Its quite common practice here in the UK but mainly because thats how the venues work, therefore everyone expects every other supplier to also offer discounts.

Venues do it by charging the premium for summer dates and then less to attract the winter brides. They also offer discounts for midweek weddings. However, for them its a little more clear cut. Paying staff to work on weekends is more expensive so justifys their increased charge (or justifies their midweek discount).

Not so clear cut for us. Where as venues could do a wedding every day of the week we know we cant, simply because of the time it takes to edit and the physical capabilities of ones body.

Also, we find the brides with the budget to hire a videographer tend to also get married in the summer months. The budget brides who get married in winter are also unlikely to have a videographer.

As such we modelled our business based on working our little nuts off in summer and having next to nothing to do in winter. As such we price ourselves the same all year round. We are, afterall not a venue.

You can do the opposite. Model your business so the summer brides pay a crazy premium and the winter ones get you at the regular/discounted rate.

Try them both, see which works for you.

Philip Howells May 17th, 2011 08:42 AM

Re: Seasonal prices?
 
I really don't know how much of the UK Danny presumes to speak for but my non-summer brides ranging from Kent to Northumberland last year would take serious offence if they were thought of as "budget brides" who can't afford a video.

The intelligent answer to the OP is that this is the same as most other businesses. A single price is easy to sell, simple to understand and gives prospective clients the reassurance they're not being ripped off with add-ons.

If you're a little light on bookings you can easily make an exception verbally for a bride offering during that period. If it's short notice and you've a spare weekend, the same applies.

Everyone likes a bargain but no-one likes getting penalised for choosing to get married in the "high season".

Danny O'Neill May 17th, 2011 09:26 AM

Re: Seasonal prices?
 
Quote:

The budget brides who get married in winter are also unlikely to have a videographer.
Im not sure where I said all winter brides were budget brides. Let me just re-read my post again.... nope. Not placing that label on all winter brides.

So your stance is not to give discounts because there is no such thing as a budget bride. Good to know and thanks for your input.

Philip Howells May 17th, 2011 10:47 AM

Re: Seasonal prices?
 
In my experience (which is all I've ever written about) and research of half a dozen venues in the past 10 minutes, it would be accurate to say that some venues discount out of season, but certainly not all as the posting implies. And how the writer can state "therefore everyone expects..." is utterly beyond me.

John Wiley May 17th, 2011 09:41 PM

Re: Seasonal prices?
 
Some interesting replies so far...

Chris, I agree that you need to take the holidays when you can. I'm not doing enywhere near as many weddings as you are (in fact I'm having back surgery in two weeks so no more weddings until next Summer), though I can understand in many cases you might not want to encourage brides to take your holidays from you!

Phillip and George - it certainly makes sense to negotiate on an individual (and verbal) basis as you both touch on, but would that then defeat the purpose - ie advertise lower prices to attract more couples in quieter times? You can either announce the discount to attract more attention, or you could offer it individually to seal the deal. This also raises the broader question of whether or not you publish your prices - if you don't, then does that give you more flexibility to offer a discount on an individual basis, or does it make it seem flaky when you offer a discount on an unpublished price?

I think hearing everyones responses it does sound like it would be too difficult to do, but purely for academic reasons, I'd love to keep the conversation going!

Jeff Harper May 17th, 2011 09:49 PM

Re: Seasonal prices?
 
I offer lower prices for Fridays, and for Fridays and Saturdays in the off season I really go lower. Two reasons, many brides who book in the off season, especially January, Feb and March, are trying to save money to begin with. I offer an extra camera, etc, and we negotiate a lower price with lower expectations, and everyone is happy. The edit is usually much easier also. Those brides usually don't want getting ready, etc so it's a piece of cake all the way around. I'm filling a need for something affordable, and I earn a little bit as well.

John Wiley May 17th, 2011 10:11 PM

Re: Seasonal prices?
 
Thanks for the reply Jeff.

I never even though about changing prices on weekdays as I've never had an enquiry that wasn't for a saturday or sunday. Do you advertise these discounts or is it something you discuss privately with them?

Chris Harding May 17th, 2011 11:14 PM

Re: Seasonal prices?
 
Hey John

I guess your people are more sane than the sandgropers here!! I have done Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays.... Fridays are very common too!!!

My photog just did a big wedding 2 weeks ago on a Monday!!!!

Hope the surgery goes well....you will have to use something like GH2's the same as Jeff for a while so everything heals nicely!!

Chris

John Wiley May 18th, 2011 01:02 AM

Re: Seasonal prices?
 
Interesting... I wonder what factors would effect that.

If anything I would've though the Gold Coast would have a higher percentage of midweek weddings compared to other locations due to
A) It being a popular holiday destination and therefore a common destination wedding location, and
B) The primary industries of tourism and entertainment mean a higher number of people are employed in jobs with non-standard hours (ie not 9-5 mon-fri), and therefore weekends are not automcatically convenient for most people.

Weddings on weekdays would completely throw my schedules out... I'd have to find something to keep myself entertained on a Saturday :)

Chris Harding May 18th, 2011 01:48 AM

Re: Seasonal prices?
 
Hi John

Saturdays, of course are still dominant here!! But Fridays and Sundays are also popular due to the drastic reduction in reception venue costs!!

The other days often have a special reason...Australia Day .... the patriotic wedding and some couples love to get married on the day they met. I'm doing a Wednesday wedding in September this year...but the bride gave me no specific reason!! Yeah, I had last Saturday off cos the bride had to posone until 2012 cos it was too late to book anyone (she had paid in full) and I must admit it was rather strange not shooting!!!

I'll have to get used to it cos from mid June to mid July the bookings are rather thin this year, but I'm still busy with Summer bookings and visiting couples.

Chris

Andrew Brown May 18th, 2011 03:26 AM

Re: Seasonal prices?
 
I'm afraid that I would have to agree with Danny that the budget conscious bride is more likely to book a weekday or an out of season date.
I've lost count the number of times couples have asked for a discount because other vendors have.

I would say unless you are desperate, never advertise a discount but by all means make it sound like you're doing the couple a favour by offering them a deal.
The problem comes when you get a referral from a couple who are expecting the same discount you offered their friends.

Jeff Harper May 18th, 2011 06:35 AM

Re: Seasonal prices?
 
John, I offer $100 off Fridays and Sundays upfront, and I get inqiries as a result. Sundays/Fridays are like found money, IMO and I try very hard to book them. I personally never have done a high-end Friday or Sunday wedding here in Cincinnati, all of mine in the last 8 years have been lower end.

I don't see a problem with receiving referrals by freinds expecting a discount. I would rather receive inquiries of any kind than none. If the inquiry is for a busy season date, I am less flexible, and I am honest with them, and they respect that. These discounts don't have to be like some kind of secret deal betweeen you and your customer. There are some dates you will not be able to offer discounts for and they know that.

Offering discounts on certain dates is done by the highest end venues and hotels, and if it is good enough of a strategy for them, it is good enough for me. It is how busines gets done.

If you are interested in advertising Friday discounts, or weekday events, go for it. Just put a line in somewhere that says "Discount available" for weekday/Sunday events and then work out the details with them, you don't have to committ to an amount in writing. You have to feel out the bride and find out what she needs, and wants, before committing to a price.

I know of videographers around here proudly proclaim in videographer meetings that they never offer discounts, as if they are too exclusive for that. Airlines, the best hotels, receptions halls, EVERYONE offers discounts as needed to get business. It would ridiculous to not do so for me. I do not pretend I am so successfull I do not need every single job I can get.

I also come across brides who are relatively poor, but have high end taste, who will want some kind of wedding video. They have 3 children, etc and are basically going broke to pay for their own wedding.

These are special cases, and I have booked one of them this year. I charged this client about half price during my peak season, because I wanted to help her, pure and simple. I like her, and her family is struggling. They shouldn't even be planning a wedding, IMO on their finances, but that is not my decsion and I cannot judge that. I'm doing my bit.

Chris Harding May 18th, 2011 07:05 AM

Re: Seasonal prices?
 
I think you have to decide whether you are a tough no-nonsense business person and stick to your guns or alternatively gain a bit of a reputation as being a nice guy....I like the nice guy approach as it often gets lots of referals from brides.

The important thing to do is offer a discount as mentioned but make it a personal deal between yourself and the bride. The way I look at things is can I actually do it for $XXX dollars and still make a fair profit...it's no use working your butt off for 12 hours when it would be, economically, better to have the day off. The bottom line is probably that in the slack season, "half a loaf is better than none" BUT make sure that in peak season all the other brides don't expect the same deal.

Our June/July period is wild, wet and cold and I would be quite happy to negotiate with weddings in this period rather than sit stubbornly on the sideline and do nothing and also make nothing. I have a photog friend who "refuses to even get out of his chair" unless it's a decent fee so it's really up to the individual.

Jeff, I have also done a similar "deed" for a little girl who was planning a wedding on a $2000 limit (yes I didn't leave out any zeros either!!) I did it at a reduced rate and shot some stills for her too as she couldn't afford a photographer....nicest wedding ever AND so many referrals from that PLUS I felt good!!

Chris

Roger Van Duyn May 18th, 2011 07:22 AM

Re: Seasonal prices?
 
There are a lot of people in my area who have severe limitations with what they can afford to spend. Usually, the first step I take in that situation is to tactfully inquire about their budget, and then offer what suggestions I can to help with the overall budgeting of the event, not just my fee.

However, it's only what I charge and what I offer for the price that's under my control. Usually, I can come up with something that stays within their budget and is still reasonably profitable for me. Sometimes they adjust the overall budget of the event and shift more to my services and less to flowers and fluff.

It's all about communication. And genuine concern for the needs and means of the client. Finally, I think I'd lose less sleep over charging too little than I would over charging too much. And most people seem to have an instinct for detecting a genuine desire to help them out. Like Chris says, being a nice guy goes a long way.

Jeff Harper May 18th, 2011 07:36 AM

Re: Seasonal prices?
 
Roger and Chris, amen. I actually talk to the bride about the wedding, not just my service. As you guys mention, I want to assist a bride in achieving her goals, not blindly trying to shove a video package at her.

There are plenty of brides, most of them, in fact, that pay full regular price. I don't give my services away regularly; if I did I couldnt' pay the mortgage.

Higher end videographers, of which I am not, have a clientele that do not need or care as much about discounts.

I know guys here that get $3-5k per wedding on a regular basis. I'm not one of those guys. They might offer a deal here or there, but they don't normally flex much.

I understand they are selling a much more labor intensive product that I do. They may spend weeks on an edit so they cannot offer huge discounts on those video packages.

Roger Van Duyn May 19th, 2011 05:42 AM

Re: Seasonal prices?
 
Hey Jeff,

I'm with you when it comes to those labor intensive packages. From an artistic standpoint, I lean toward simplicity and minimalism. From a practical standpoint, unnecessary work tends to reduce profitability. Pricing is a big factor in today's economy around here. To be able to offer an attractive price and still make a decent living, you have to work efficiently. You just can't waste time.

Even potential high end clients are concerned now, and I'm not talking primarily about wedding clients, but clients in general. Some of these people have confided to me how careful they've become spending money under their control, because they have families, and employee's families, that would be harmed if they waste money. A lot of people are "sweating bullets." It takes some real creative thinking to overcome today's obstacles. To paraphrase " adversity is the mother of creative thinking."

Honestly, one guy I spoke to had to close up shops at one of the companies he owns. He was really, really pained about what happened to his former employees. He's sort-of living a somewhat comfortable "retirement", but bothered.

Chris Harding May 19th, 2011 08:12 AM

Re: Seasonal prices?
 
Hi Guys

That's business thinking rather than creative thinking which is the real way to make a profit unless your client has 4 Ferrari's in his hilltop mansion!!
I had a local company here who said it was totally impossible to edit a wedding in 8 -10 hours !! His added comment was "sometimes I might spend two days just perfecting a minute's worth of footage"

From a purely business POV I wonder if he actually makes a profit.... I know he claimed that he can take as much as 6 months to deliver to the bride and spend easily 60 hours or more on just the edit. For a practical business model, you would have to charge a small fortune to make that sort of work even viable!!

Dunno how you cost but I simply work my total time in hours to get a realistic cost at a minimum of $75 an hour.... take off travel, consultations and the actual day and to be efficient, you need to produce your finished product once you have shot it, in the time that's left...if you take longer you need to improve efficiency ... my edit time comes in around 8 - 10 hours .. if I need to take 40 hours to edit then I must either work for peanuts or increase my prices which reduces my sales and income!!

I would rather do a simple, efficient wedding for $1500 and know I have made a profit than create a masterpiece for $4000 which in the end makes me a loss!!


Chris

Christian Brown May 19th, 2011 11:16 AM

Re: Seasonal prices?
 
Well put, Chris.

Chris Bryan May 22nd, 2011 07:22 PM

Re: Seasonal prices?
 
Wow,

Editing a wedding in 8-10 hours sounds crazy to me. I usually have about 3-4 hours of footage to go through, so to watch it all once I'm already at half of what your full edit time is. I spend a full week on each wedding edit.

Chris Harding May 23rd, 2011 01:45 AM

Re: Seasonal prices?
 
Hi Chris

Each to their own method!! If I took a week to edit (say 40 hours???) then my edit cost alone would be $4000 ..then plus 12 hours for the consultations and actual wedding means I'm already over the $5000 mark. No bride here would pay $5000 for a wedding DVD set!!! I can allocate myself around 20 hours tops for the whole job otherwise I price myself out of the market.

I still cannot fathom out what you guys actually do for 40 hours???? (I don't shoot 4 hours...probably 2 or often less depending on the ceremony and speech lengths) I could maybe understand a longer edit if you were trying to sync 4 cameras on every aspect of the shoot...I use two cam for ceremony/speeches and then one cam for the rest.

Chris

Andrew Brown May 23rd, 2011 03:14 AM

Re: Seasonal prices?
 
Chris, I think you may have answered your own question.
Take a bit longer, produce something with a real wow factor and charge accordingly.

"Build it and they will come"

Chris Harding May 23rd, 2011 07:23 AM

Re: Seasonal prices?
 
Hi Andrew

Not really!! I'd still like to know what takes 40 hours or more??? I shoot documentary style weddings and I really don't want to spend a week modifying footage and end up with a cinematic style product that bride's won't pay for cos it's out of their budget.

I have great admiration for you guys that produce cinematic masterpieces but it's neither my market nor my style of shooting a wedding.

Chris

Jeff Harper May 23rd, 2011 07:41 AM

Re: Seasonal prices?
 
Chris, I have friends that spend a good 40+ on edits, and they do charge around $3K and up, it kind of depends on the package.

Documentary style is much less demanding, but even then it can take a while if you add highlight clips.

Also, some people are just slower at edting, don't have system they follow and it takes them longer than it has to.

There are training DVDs out that show how to create great wedding films relatively fast by having your own template which you follow.

Chris Harding May 23rd, 2011 08:25 AM

Re: Seasonal prices?
 
Hi Jeff

I was actually going to edit my post to explain a bit better.

Guys like Andrew are probably considered artists and create masterpieces which have to take a lot of effort, concentration and painstaking care... I'm not an artist I'm a story teller and it takes me 8 - 10 hours to put my story together. Do I want to be an artist and create masterpieces...not really!!! I'd rather be a story teller!!

I still, of course, admire their efforts and marvel at their creativeness but to put in all that effort is not my style..neither is sitting a week on my butt editing. I'm sure creative cinematic productions will earn more money but I'm happy shooting documentaries with happy brides and a bank balance that I cannot even spend anyway so why do I need to charge more ???

I think we both have a place in the wedding industry ..I know I do as I'm already full in March 2012!! Why change when things are running smoothly and brides are happy and you have some free time for yourself??

Regardless of my admiration for the cinematic videographers of the world and their great work..I'll stick with what I enjoy doing and that's a story telling documentary

Chris


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